These two photographs and the one @Stogy posted earlier of his car in the fall are examples of photographs that I consider not art and art. The bridge pictures are just pictures of a covered bridge while Stogy's picture is an artistic picture. So, in my opinion, Stogy's picture should be in this thread, the bridge picture should be deleted.
I think you are wrong, and you totally underestimate what really goes into "hand done" art, whether it's pin-striping, painting, drawing, sculpture, airbrushing etc. With "hand done" art, the artist is responsible to CREATE the subject matter, perspective, shapes, light source, shadowing, depth, symmetry and create the composition. In photography, ALL those things are already provided for FREE to the artist because they already exist...and he just has to capture the best pre-existing composition... not create any of it...just recognize when those pre-existing things are in pleasant proximity. I'm not saying photography isn't a form of art...but I tend to agree with @Rocket88NZ.
Not underestimating at all and lets face it we are all photographers of some sort. Good photographs like anything good take thought and effort but still doesn't make it art. I love seeing good pictures and can appreciate the correct lighting, angle, moment etc. Good photography obviously take a lot of skill and practice just think it should be in a different category than art. Just have to agree to disagree. Good to see others thoughts.
again, you do not understand what goes into photography, have you ever heard of photo editing software? I haven't drawn anything of significance for years, but I do know about drawing. I've done just enough pin striping to know I am only good with straight lines. I've done airbrush T shirts. drew my 49ratfink avatar. I drew the chopper below. you could not reproduce this photo from what I started with. I removed people and junk, moved the cars to better spots, brought out the color. I tweaked the 36 on the right so the reflections came out better. much of the area below the guys in the bleachers is "photoshop" because people were standing there. the "art" of photography is doing all this so nobody notices. the pictures you are speaking of are "snap shots" without much thought.
Art is like many things, what one person considers art another may not consider art. I look at some modern art and can’t see the art at all. Also many do not consider mechanical drawings art, I do however. I do not consider any photos I have posted to be of the caliber of art produced by many on here. I still see an artistic value in many photos though. I see a wide range of quality or artistic mastery on the posts here, personally I enjoy most if not all of it. Dan
There are picture takers and there are photographers. Picture taking is not art. It is simply pushing a button to record an image of something that you see. I don't consider myself an artist as a painter. I am a doodler. I am not a picture taker. I am a photographer. Photography is ART. A finished product photograph can take several hours of editing. The art in photography is in the edit; being able to manipulate ALL of the same exact ELEMENTS that you use in a painting, coupled with a good eye for the subject matter. My 1st image is an example of my doodling. All other images here are photographs. To think that I just happened to be able to walk up to these subjects, push a button, and get all of these elements for free is to be mistaken. I hope that you will be able to see the difference between picture taking, and photography as an ART form... a very powerful ART form. Cheers, Rob
I think you just reinforced my point. Let me ask you: Did you actually create an artistic image that never existed, or did you just take an image(s) that already existed visually, and edit them mechanically to be more pleasing? There is a big difference between an Art Exhibit and a Photo Exhibit
@49ratfink I may owe you an apology. A quick glance at that bike...I thought it was just a photo. If it's something you drew...it's EXCELLENT...you certainly have the skills I'm talking about.
I drew that Harley 30 years ago. that is the only big Harley drawing I ever did. I just don't have that kind of dedication any more. probably took 6-8 hours if not more. photos take much less effort.
Wow, well at least we are all communicating with each other. I had to teach myself photography and how to see the image I wanted to draw, so since our eyesight is equivalent to a 50MM lens, for my work, I used the 24MM wide angle, to get the forced perspective, and to be able to get up close, to see the details. The examples I am going to post here, are examples of the final art that was derived from my original photography. These are from slides that I shot, then projected them onto my 4' X 4' easel and drew them on 33" X 27" junk lecture pad paper, drawn with pencil, then I went back and painstakingly used my "Staedtler" flow ink pens and also my Speedball traditional ink pen with the B-3 NIBB, to get all of the lines thicker and more accurate, so that the guy that does my color separations, would have the reduced camera ready artwork, that he could scan, and get the separations ready to go to the printer for 4 to 5 color, spot color printing for T-shirts. The point I am trying to illustrate here, with out getting into a serious dogfight of hand drawn art versus photographic artwork, is simply this, both of these realms have been successfully interwoven with each other over the course of many decades ! The J-3 cub, is from a massive 30" X 40" pen and ink drawing, on Letramax, cold press illustration board that is the original from a slide that I shot, and it then turned into a T-Shirt design. Its the mixture of hand drawn, and photographic composition, pure and simple! I still have the original 30" X 40" pen and ink drawing of it on my living room wall. Take a good look at the Curtiss Wright sport trainer artwork, I shot the original aircraft using slide film, and then projected that image on the 4' X 4' easel, and did the same thing as described before, and I assure you, just like hot rod people, the aircraft people will tear you a new ass if you don't get the details correct, such as the open valve spring configuration on the Warner Super Scarab radial engine as seen here. Again my point here is, I could not have done this, if I didn't have the element of good high quality precision photography first, to get the image, and then go further with the pen and ink mode of indeed hand drawn lines for the final piece to be turned into high quality T-shirts. Take a good look at the cylinder fins on the radial engine, that is what hand drawn looks like, you can see the tiny imperfections that make hand drawn work, look like what it is, there isn't any fancy computer or any Photoshop programs used in my work. Just sayin. Anyway, I just wanted to say how important, at least in my opinion, how, the world of hand drawn artwork, and the element of good composition via photography, can and have peacefully coexisted in the public eye for a long time. As a tip to anyone that is reading this, I say simply this, "less is more " Take the time to really look at what you are about to post on the (FAS) or any of the forums here on the H.A.M.B. Take the time to really look at the photo, and take the time to filter it, and crop out all of the things, that detract from the story that you are trying to tell, or to illustrate. Some of my photography, that is trying to tell a story, or something to that effect! This final piece which is titled "ZYGOTE" its a custom piece of hand drawn with colored pencil and a sticker from a sandwich shop, which I turned into a 22" X 22" laminated place mat, which was given to my wife's nephew, to celebrate the birth of their son, "Lachlin", who when this was drawn, he was just a "ZYGOTE" being formed inside of his mother! I did use the old template of the Mobil Pegasus, flying horse to get the shapes that you see here. Okay, rant is over! See ya all here occasionally on the (FAS) Thanks from Dennis, And I hope I didn't ruffle anyone's artistic feathers!
Hello, The post on photography as art is fine. But, on the HAMB, Friday Art is for those that have some inclination to take a pen or pencil to start drawing something that could turn into a custom car/Hot Rod of sorts. Whether it is changed by the photoshop artists or drawn over and over to make changes like custom car folks. Ideas flow with the model of car or old hot rod. Obviously, we do not have art skills like several of the hot rod/custom folks on the TV shows that use Sharpies to draw… yikes! The HAMB has so many threads that have internet photos just plastered all over. So, this section seemed like a respite of hand drawn art or these days, art turned into hot rod art via computer. "Artsy" car pics,,,lets see 'em,,, Starting in July 16, 2009… Comes To Mind This thread is already posted on the HAMB 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' and folks have been contributing some very artistic photos. Others just copy and paste anything they find on the internet. So, if that is the definite “artistic” photo thread then case solved. It is open to any day, any week and just about any photo that follows the pre 65 HAMB rules. Jnaki For those guys that have been drawing with pencils, pen & ink and freehand artwork, Jack Murphy, Jeff Norwell, Rusty, and others have skills beyond all of us. But, for those that like to draw, those guys are inspirational. It is fun drawing the pencil sketches and then using shapes and forms to create a chopped sedan or truck for the Friday Art, with smooth or sharp lines. I have plenty of real photographs and they are in their own file. The art file is loaded with projects placed as I get an idea or two. For folks that are natural born artists, Steve Sanford, Dave Bell, etc, are way out there. We definitely would like to have those skills. My version of a cool job is to sit in a room with a view of the ocean or harbor and draw to my heart’s content. Then when I submit artwork, the royalties come flying in…ha! But, knowing the photo business, the royalties don’t always come flying in as per article or series of photos. Staff photographers usually get first choice of stories as they are salaried and not an over the counter added expense for photos or art. But, what if a photo get printed and then made into a silkscreen art work? My art teacher in college was amazed at the custom motorcycle photo, but he was more impressed when I got finished with the whole project as a final exam display. Spending hours getting the photo ready for the print. Then more silk screen techniques with photography. Finally, the actual silk screening by layers pinned to exact lines. Then, of course mounting and displaying on a homemade art frame from recycled wood to float the photo art in the middle. Is that art? Well, I got an “A” in the final exam and recorded as an “A” in the final grade for the class. So, that was satisfying… So, can we do both pinned to the home HAMB board as before? One for strictly drawn art work and within the HAMB parameters. The other one right below it as an “Artsy photo” induced thread only. Then there is no question or problem of which is which. Photos go into one thread and art work goes into another. YRMV
Mr. Norwell...your art is an order of magnitude over and above what the rest of us are able to create... Your stuff is truly amazing!
Somewhere I have the vintage Hot Rod/Car Craft/PHR mag stashed away with the original article featuring the Diamond Deuce pickup you acquired...it is truly WAY cooler after your redo!!!
1953 Chevy Bel Air Hardtop sedan to a custom Nomad Wagon Stock Chevy sedan from an old lady in Bixby Knolls… The "baby blue boy" snide remarks went so far as teenage comments... Hello, When we were in our teenage cruising mode, the 1953 Chevy sedan had some custom touches that everyone liked. The darkish green paint done locally, the all white tuck and roll upholstery done in Baja Mexico, and a lowered look for those late night cruises. The motor was stock and ran perfectly. The areas covered were daily high school trips, after school entertainment center for our high school teens, and the Bixby Knolls drive-in restaurant parking lots. not the exact Chevy sedan, but a close match in color and lowered style. The weekends were open for cruising to the beach or to the mountains near by. But we found out that the 53 Chevy Bel Air was handy when needed for extra storage or transporting surfboards to a teen gathering. Our local teenage friends from our school and activities all wanted to go surfing together. Only a few of us could actually surf. So, it was fun watching our non surfing friends trying their best at standing up. Ha! Good at their own sports in high school, but were fish out of water in surfing activities. YRMV Jnaki So, the 53 Chevy Bel Air hardtop went to all teenage areas for fun of all kinds. The only thing it did not do was to go camping at the beach during our school vacations. A station wagon would have worked, but at the time, that model was a family car and not a teenage daily driver to school. A 1953 Chevy Bel Air Station Wagon with some style would have been a very cool teenage cruiser, as well as allowing those long week surf vacations in Baja Mexico or up North during the Winter at Rincon/Santa Barbara area campgrounds. No weather or location was so far away for hungry for surf, teenage surfers.
I agree that some – not all – photos are “artistic” and the skills required to reach this level are just as real as hand drawn art. I draw cartoons and illustrations since I can’t take a photo worth a damn. I also drew cars in high school in my note books and I’m so glad to see I wasn’t alone – vindication sort of ! I really enjoy all the contributions to this site and thanks to all.
The Jalopy Journal
