Racefab, I did get a little of a bro deal, this guy is young and hungry for work other than Sprintcar motors. My bores were like new, the motor got screwed up upon reassembly in a prior rebuild. He basically cleaned the carbon and made a quick pass, (they really looked like they just left the machine shop!) He is a bit cheaper than other shops, I paid $150 of that total just for the heads, my SBC can have a valvejob here in town for $100 including a light surface mill. Maybe I did get off cheaply compared to other places? But I do know that this kids motors are kicking ass on the Gaerte mills that the local hotshoes are running, AND they are holding up week after week. I really feel good after reading some of your sob stories!
Rocky has it for me too... Nothing like a Plain looking 389 Poncho to scare the livin' shit outta your friends. My best friend let my brother (a Pontiac GURU!!) build him a 400 Pontiac. Bro handed him $3500 in receipts and he almost shit. But after it ran three guys lined up to get what he had. One of those engines made it's way into a 68 Firebird. One day that Firebird was in my driveway while it's owner was out of town.......umm yea, I drove it, duh!! That sum'bitch nearly killed me. It doesn't matter how wide the tires are you can't stop the power - As long as you can give it gas - it'll continue to rip the tread off the tire. No brakestands, no tricks, just stop - mash gas - smoke tires....... It doesn't get any more exciting than that. I can't even begin to tell you what it was like on the highway. I compare it to a 1000cc sportbike or a super built HD. Plainly put, it was a rocket - a REALLY torquey rocket! Not that a SBC can't be built to put out the numbers, or any other engine for that matter (especially the Hemis), but I just dig the Ponchos. I can't wait until Scotch gets his running. It'll be a stunner.
I bought my 348 for $250 at a swap. 500 miles on it. A retarded monkey put it together and it spun a rod bearing. I had an extra crank and rod laying around so I cleaned it all up... had a machine shop check everything out... then just stuck in new rings and bearings and gaskets... and 6 years later she's still ticking... total cost was like $400. I got lucky. Travis
How 'bout a rebuilt 62 Caddy 390/rebuilt trans for $725? (with receipts) It was originally built for a resto guy who died before his car was finished. It passed hands a few times and is now going into my 29 Tudor.
[ QUOTE ] Now I'm gonna piss some of you all off. It doesn't matter if you plop a thousand bucks, or even 5 thousand into an American V8, you can bet your ass that it won't live past 100,000 miles before you have to do it all over again. However a Honda Civic will live to 200,000 with minimal maintenance. Lookit' I love American V8's, that's why I'm here, but as far as longevity is concerned, the Japanese have us beat. In the days before modern oils most American engines didn't see 50,000 before needing a rerring and head job. Y'all are gonna kill me, but I don't think even modern American engines can match the imports (Yugos excepted) for sheer longevity. What the hell are we doing wrong? PS, I loved the 348 in my '59 Elky, the summbitch smoked like Dennis Leary, but she never let me down, and she could pull an oak tree out of the ground. The W motors are one of the coolest looking engines ever built. Sorry for the thread hijack. [/ QUOTE ] you're absolutely right. its technology and the use of it, in the parts and their manufacture. it's metallurgy, where it matters, in the critical components. it's unions and the attitude they helped create in the 70's when we were being invaded with imports. it's people willing to work like...slaves to have less than us. it's building engines to turn high rpms, which will live for fucking ever under "normal" operating conditions. engines that are efficient, dont have intake runners that have casting flash hanging out a half inch. it's because they consider things like real fuel management and proper engine design so engines don't self destruct. it's the mentality that in other countries they build racing engines under surgical conditions, to exact tolerances. in american racing, they use relatively looser tolerances and less attention to detail, "aw hell, we can just tear it down after each race! what kind of trickle down technology does that breed? i like trad rodding for what it is, a throwback to simpler times, but it ain't everything, i'm not blind to current technology, gotta accept it sooner or later to some extent. i wonder how many trad "hot rodders" are scared to look at the guy at a focus or a ricer next to them at a stoplight for fear of handing their asses handed to them? not a lot of trad hot rodders really give a rat's ass about REALLY going fast. now if you are going to "build" an engine, a sbc really ain't gonna be that much cheaper when all is said and done for the initial hi performance build. it WILL be cheaper to tear down and freshen up on a regular basis, because things like bearings and gaskets are dirt cheap. but so are sbc's to start with, so to get comparable power to a similarly equipped torque monster 60's motor, or big block, you need ot start spending things on parts that don't make power, but make the engine more reliable at higher power levels. you cut corners, you gotta tear it down to fix it. OR build a older v-8 that is bulletproof to begin with, and spend the money on go fast parts, and leave the damn thing together longer, not "that" much more cost considering the attention a hot rocket or nailhead gets. yes there's a big difference if youo're trying to do it on a budget, but if you're making power, the costs even out. it's just a lot easier with a sbc. drop 1500 on the credit card and have a hot damn set of heads delivered tomorrow. with an old engine, spend the same money to have a set of stockers ported, but wait months, don't be in a hurry! the game of how fa$$$t do you want to go is a game of leapfrog, every engine has a "cheap" range of power increase, then it get's spendy in a big hurry, example: modern 4 bangers, slap a turbo on a stocker and with a few other things go fast for cheap. but that will only get you so far before it gets spendy, same sa a sbc, same as a hemi. the difference is where that "cheap power" threshold is. gawd what a ramble. bottom line is, you can put a price on power, but you can't put a price on cool
[ QUOTE ] Try building a 430 Lincoln motor...I feel your pain! hahaha [/ QUOTE ] I don't want to hear how bad it is Samantha. I'm about to start on my merc 383 same thing basically...only 2 year models though. I'll just cringe when the time comes to pay the bill instead of getting discouraged now
Hey Revhead...I've kept every dang receipt for every dang thing ever bought for the Tbird. I've never added them up & never will - ignorance is bliss, ya know? Good luck on your 383!
[ QUOTE ] Now I'm gonna piss some of you all off. It doesn't matter if you plop a thousand bucks, or even 5 thousand into an American V8, you can bet your ass that it won't live past 100,000 miles before you have to do it all over again. However a Honda Civic will live to 200,000 with minimal maintenance. Lookit' I love American V8's, that's why I'm here, but as far as longevity is concerned, the Japanese have us beat. In the days before modern oils most American engines didn't see 50,000 before needing a rerring and head job. Y'all are gonna kill me, but I don't think even modern American engines can match the imports (Yugos excepted) for sheer longevity. What the hell are we doing wrong? PS, I loved the 348 in my '59 Elky, the summbitch smoked like Dennis Leary, but she never let me down, and she could pull an oak tree out of the ground. The W motors are one of the coolest looking engines ever built. Sorry for the thread hijack. [/ QUOTE ] I have two sbc and a inline 6 chevy all with over 200,000 miles and even in the shit cars they are in the are way cooler than any piece of jap junk. If you take care of american iron the way the jap junk lovers take care of their shit our engines will out live theirs every day
I love it how all pro-jap comments seem to forget Mitsubishi and mazda. The Mitsu 4cyl was a time bomb and the RX-7 engine was so plagued with problems you can't give a '93 away. Not all jap cars are long lasting, just like not all american cars are short-lived.
[ QUOTE ] Try building a 430 Lincoln motor...I feel your pain! hahaha [/ QUOTE ] Try Getting anything for a Nailhead......
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Now I'm gonna piss some of you all off. It doesn't matter if you plop a thousand bucks, or even 5 thousand into an American V8, you can bet your ass that it won't live past 100,000 miles before you have to do it all over again. However a Honda Civic will live to 200,000 with minimal maintenance. Lookit' I love American V8's, that's why I'm here, but as far as longevity is concerned, the Japanese have us beat. In the days before modern oils most American engines didn't see 50,000 before needing a rerring and head job. Y'all are gonna kill me, but I don't think even modern American engines can match the imports (Yugos excepted) for sheer longevity. What the hell are we doing wrong? PS, I loved the 348 in my '59 Elky, the summbitch smoked like Dennis Leary, but she never let me down, and she could pull an oak tree out of the ground. The W motors are one of the coolest looking engines ever built. Sorry for the thread hijack. [/ QUOTE ] I have two sbc and a inline 6 chevy all with over 200,000 miles and even in the shit cars they are in the are way cooler than any piece of jap junk. If you take care of american iron the way the jap junk lovers take care of their shit our engines will out live theirs every day [/ QUOTE ] I'm no Jappanese car fan but I disagree. I have seen 22R/RE motors that were treated unmercifully and still go over 200,000 no problem. I'm talking about guys who went through the gears wfo everytime and hardly ever changed oil or did any maitainence. Now days it isn't uncommon for American engines to go over 200,000 with normal care and maintainence. And if you look back we started seeing these numbers when fuel injection came on board, no more carburators washing down the cylinders on warm up and diluting the oil (my theory) My 96 F-150 just turned 100,000 and runs like new still, uses NO oil between changes. I can remember 25 years ago a Pickup engine would be on borrowed time when it hit 100,000.
[ QUOTE ] I love it how all pro-jap comments seem to forget Mitsubishi and mazda. The Mitsu 4cyl was a time bomb and the RX-7 engine was so plagued with problems you can't give a '93 away. Not all jap cars are long lasting, just like not all american cars are short-lived. [/ QUOTE ] mazda(bater) rx7's fetch top dollar ova here every litle 16yr old wants one (loud noise ) and rotary engines cost the eareth to rebuild over here best part of 10 grand if you want porting work done
[ QUOTE ] I love it how all pro-jap comments seem to forget Mitsubishi and mazda. The Mitsu 4cyl was a time bomb and the RX-7 engine was so plagued with problems you can't give a '93 away. Not all jap cars are long lasting, just like not all american cars are short-lived. [/ QUOTE ] I assume you are talking about the 2.6 Mitsu engine,that Chrysler used in the mini-vans? Here is something to think about on that engine.........When Mitsu first came out with that,they used it in a LOT of rear drive applications,like mini trucks,and they even hung a turbo on it,and used it in the Conquest's and the Starions.Ran like stink and held together pretty good if you did any maintenance on it at all. THEN....Mother MOPAR decided it would be a good engine to put in the early mini-vans.When they did that,they moved the water pump to the other end of the block,and it bacame a time bomb. Fucking engineers! I loved that engine! I made a SHITLOAD of money rebuilding them
[ QUOTE ] I've kept every dang receipt for every dang thing ever bought for the Tbird. I've never added them up & never will - ignorance is bliss, ya know? [/ QUOTE ] aint that the truth, prolly about ten grand if I counted all the various combinations I've tried out.. on a run of the mill bbc Paul
I'm talking about the 4cyls used in the first generation eclipse. Not familiar with the minivan engines, but the eclipses had a reputation to load up with carbon deposits and run rough. And then of couse theres Isuzu...that has a bad reputation among all the mechanics I've known.
Now if I told EVERYTHING I would be showing my hand Greeat discussion folks. My boss' Nailhead stuff can get pricey, the 401 thats in his 50 Chevy Work truck was built by the previous owner. I think he had $2500 in the heads and valvetrain alone!
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Try building a 430 Lincoln motor...I feel your pain! hahaha [/ QUOTE ] Try Getting anything for a Nailhead...... [/ QUOTE ] Just some FYI for the Nailhead guys, both Federal-Mogul and Clevite have discontinued the Main Bearings for the Nailheads, only thing available is the no name ones now. Bummer... I spent about $600 on machine work for my 425 including a valve job, don't ever need hardened seats for a Nailhead. I've spent that for a SBC easy. Now parts are different, main bearings were $130 for a SBC they're $60 for the good ones. It'll add up. But the machine shop I use doesn't charge me more for the weird engines, I think they dig it, it keeps them from getting bored....
Cool post but its making think again why I'm terrified to even start rebuilding my 50 Hudson motor! 8 babbit rods oh the joy!!!! I got lucky and scored a set of .60 over NOS pistons off e-bay for $80 now I just need to find a machinist that can tackle a block that is as big as a whole Honda! Fatlucky: You scored on that Caddy! The main bearings for my 64 429 were the same price as a whole rebuild kit for a SBC. I scored a whole Sedan DeVille with rebuilt motor (NOS crank, pistons valve train etc...!) and tranny done by a retired Caddy mechanic for $500, of course like a dumb ass I sold it and my whole CdV for $1000 Samantha: Good luck on that Lincoln motor, my buddy had one and we started pricing parts for it...OUCH! Think I might go for a 472/500 Caddy for my Hudson or a SBC (Yorg don't kill me!)
I agree zman, this young guy that did my work really liked the fact that he could play with something cool during race season. That and the fact there is a chance one of his mills wont get broken in during HOT LAPS!
[ QUOTE ] My boss' Nailhead stuff can get pricey, the 401 thats in his 50 Chevy Work truck was built by the previous owner. I think he had $2500 in the heads and valvetrain alone! [/ QUOTE ] Oh that's easy , I have one word... gessler That'll do it every time..... and right to boot...
Both sides of the coin are clear as day... The SBC is a teriffic option- Cheap, strong, and reliable. It has history (since '55) and plenty of stuff exists to amke it do whatever you want (be that an 8,500-9,000 rpm drag screamer 283, or a torquey 406 in your 4x4). They just plain work, so they're everywhere in the aftermarket. Its my opinion that once you've mastered the SBC, it's time to challenge thyself and learn a little bit by going off the beaten path... It's great to have an SBC, but it's cooler to have something far different. There's no need to critique these points. There are fine reasons to justify going SBC or anywhere else, no matter how bizarre...If you can dream it up, afford it, and have it do what you planned, why not make jaws drop when the hood goes up (if you even have a hood)...Or, drop some real performance numbers that mean more because they weren't produced by an SBC! No need to be critical at all...and just because a rod has an SBC between the rails now does not mean it has to be that way forever. That's for sure. Engines are my weakness, and for me this stuff borders on a religious experience. I'm currently doing a Buick Straight 8, the World Largest Pontiac V-8, and what may be the worlds most powerful 383 SBC on 87-octane. None of them have yet to fire, but all will within the next 60 days. I am feeling like the anxious Dad pacing in the waiting room while his wife and two girlfriends are all giving birth to his children. (It's cool- They all get along with each other...) If the SBC is right for you, so be it. Do it up right and make it sing. If you're ready and willing to step out and step up to something interesting and cool, jump in and get after it. I love this stuff. Scotch~!
Gee, I love this thread. At times this sounds like "I'm dumber than you, look how much I spent!" I do my thing because my pursuit of happiness is a road less traveled. Nothing puts a smile on my face quicker than a hot rod powered by anything but a SBC. Nothing wrong with them but I appreciate the effort it takes to breath life into a relic engine or adapt new technology. If you add up dollars, rods aren't your passion - they're your business. I'm not rich, I'm just a worker like most of you but I put a V10 Dodge Viper engine in a '32 5W. The only two items I remember the price of was the gasket set ($850) and thermostate ($56). But piece by piece I got it together. I feel like I climbed Mt. Everest when it ran. It was a bigger challenge than a SBC and consequently more rewarding. My next challenge is to build an Ardun.
440 wedge right @ 700 in overhaul parts still don't have enough pieces to properly build the heads and or a decent distributer. The crank turned cost me 70.00 and I still need to machine the block, and a valve grind and heads faced. Lookin' at about another 500-600. Granted its not considered an old skool mill but it certainly isn't an SBC either. And I almost never pay retail. Bottom line is speed costs money how fast do you want to go?
Missing Link... You should see the rest of the car... It hasn't been washed since May, right before Paso and it's still been my daily driver until TODAY. Travis
That 2.6 Miserabitchy FRIGGIN SUCKS. They all go 50 to 70k miles, then the timing belt goes and a valve bounces off the piston & cracks the head putting water in your oil. Guaranteed. And they suckered everyone into using that engine.
Believe me Im a non-conformist from way back: never one to follow the crowd. I love to see a wide variety of cool power plants out there. But there is a reason the SBC became the generals corporate engine: survival of the fittest. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, the best performance investment one can find. My funds are limited. Im going for the most bang for the buck.
[ QUOTE ] Now I'm gonna piss some of you all off. It doesn't matter if you plop a thousand bucks, or even 5 thousand into an American V8, you can bet your ass that it won't live past 100,000 miles before you have to do it all over again.(snip)Lookit' I love American V8's, that's why I'm here, but as far as longevity is concerned, the Japanese have us beat.(snip) Y'all are gonna kill me, but I don't think even modern American engines can match the imports (Yugos excepted) for sheer longevity. What the hell are we doing wrong? (snip) [/ QUOTE ] ok, do tell my Isuzu that it's suppose to last past 100k miles. =) I can't believe I even brought that thing back to life 3 times- I baby it, and yet the engine still craps out on me. Anyways- my SBC was cheap until I decided to put 6x2's on it. I think I could've bought the new fuel injected look-a-likes for the same price. The flathead I had still cost me more, but it was a better looking engine. It is VERY nice to be able to walk into any auto parts store and get SBC parts. Now, have you ever tried to get powerglide parts?! 5 out of 6 transmission shops I called didn't even know what one was. Yeesh. As my buddy puts it, "it's hard to be cool"
The Jalopy Journal
