Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. ....let's hope the emphasis isn't on "bad"....which it might be when you see the paint in a few weeks in person. LOL Didn't get as far today as I had hoped, but the wind lace is in and the dash is all back in and hooked up...took waaaay longer that I figured it would. Good news is it's back running under its own power and if it stops raining, I can drive it again. Woowoo!! I had really hoped to have the main section of the headliner sewn up today, but no dice. I did open the box on my vintage Do It Yourself Hirohata Headliner Kit however. It's so awesome the Carson Shop sold these way back when and I was lucky enough to come up with one..... I have studied and studied the pics I could find and have had several discussions with Rikster (the only person I know who has actually sat in the original) and think it will turn out pretty close...we will see. I worried about the measurements and the proportion of the pleats vs the white sections and when I put a tape across the windshield, the measurements almost made themselves. I was flabbergasted at how simple it seemed....but naturally in the back of my mind that worries me....things are rarely as simple as they first appear. LOL
Made it this far.... Really wanted to have it steady hung by the end of the long weekend, but alas...no dice. I have the sound deadener inside the roof up but still have to stick up the insulation and sew the tabs on the back of the headliner for the bows. A few late nights this week and hopefully I'll have it and ready to spend next weekend fitting window stainless and putting the windows back in. We leave for Indy two weeks from Wednesday, so it's getting about crunch time. LOL
Nice...unfortunately the rest of the car isn't going to look as nice...now...!!! Is that the same green...it looks a lot darker... Still planning on making CCR...??? R-
LOL. Well, it's not installed yet, so you may want to reserve judgement until then before you think I'm capable of "real" work on someone else's car. I'm not afraid to tackle anything and don't worry about messing up, but my results are often below grade compared to what you'd pay a pro to do right.
Yes, it's the same green as before. It may look darker because some of the bottom half has sand marks on it as well as needing cleaned. LOL Yes, I will be making the CCR. It won't be as far along as I had hoped (I had hoped to have the bottom half painted also so it appeared "done"), but I will be there. Gonna be some late nights the next two weeks, but it's starting to finally come together.
After a long weekend, the headliner is up. Frankly, it's not an epic fail, but I am pretty disappointed with the result. I don't think it's unrecoverable, but having to have the car back together in a week to head out to Indy, I am out of time and just have to go with it for now. Here's what I did and how it turned out. Possible causes of the problems and potential solutions to follow.... Years ago, there was an article in Custom Rodder on how to do a front to back headliner...the car used was one of Kurt's cars if I remember right. Anyhoo, they bent up conduit to run front to back to mount tack strips on to hang the headliner. A few years ago, I came across this picture....on the HAMB I assume....of a front to back headliner hung from the original bows by tabs: Saving reference photos like I do knowing I would do front to back headliners one day, I started to look at it closely for this project and thought it was worth a shot and would be less work than bending up conduit, etc. The headliner that I took out of the car had 4 bows, so I marked the locations on the backside of my new headliner and sewed on the tabs. Once the tabs were on, I punched the holes since it was easier to get them in the right spot punching them after the tabs were on than try to sew on pre-punched tabs and get the holes in the right place (discovering this by actual experience naturally...LOL). Also in prep for installation, I needed strips over the doors to tuck the headliner into. The previous headliner had panelling cut to shape and the headliner was glued to that then tucked under the edge. I saw this pic of tucking strips posted by @jakesbackyard in the upholstery social forum that he made for a sewn headliner in an AD truck: Using his guidelines, I had strips bent up at the local heat/ac shop and then mounted them above the doors. I was set and it was time to install. One problem I already knew I had was that I still have problems getting my pleats the width I intend, so my pleated sections in this project ended up 4 inches wider overall than I had planned them, which moved my side panels down over the windows two inches each side. I thought it would still work out fine with the biggest consequence being that my piping lines wouldn't hit the marks I originally plotted to match the same spots on the Hirohata. That proved to be a wrong assumption...but I'm an amateur doing something I probably shouldn't have attempted in the first place if I really knew what I was doing, so ignorance does not always end up bliss. The center section hung up fine and dandy, glued up and stretched out great and really looks pretty good. Over all, another bow or two wouldn't have hurt, but I didn't have any more to use, so there you go. The problems came when it was time to stretch out and glue the side panels over the windows. When I was making patterns and laying it all out, it looked like the center section all the way to the sides was straight panels on all the reference pics I had of the Hirohata headliner and that the last section below the piping above the windows might have a curve to it. So, I laid the center section after I had sewn all the straight sections together over the headliner I removed and made a pattern from the remaining side sections of the old headliner to get the curve. One thing I didn't appreciate or anticipate was that the old headliner pulled up tighter into the corners just from having the full listing pockets for the bows that this headliner wouldn't have....and with the last line of piping being moved down out of the corner from the whole thing being too wide...I don't think the curve I made needed to be as big as I made it. In retrospect, what I should have done was run the headliner back through the machine and shrunk up my pleats (which never occurred to me until I hit the bed at 1am Sunday after gluing the whole thing in...a bit too late now LOL) and maybe made the side panels without a curve at all. No matter, I was in now and I had to try to make it work. After several attempts to get the sides tight without wrinkles, I determined I needed a way to get the sides up tighter into the corners to suck up some of the extra material. The only way I could think to do that was to make some wood panels covered with foam to glue the sides up into the corners further: It helped, but it was too little, too late and oh well. I'd be really disappointed if I had paid a pro to do this headliner and this is what I picked up. But, time is running short and I don't have time to pull it out, sew the pleats to the correct width and make new side panels to a better template, so I'll have to run it as it for now. I guess in the end, it's as traditional as you can get....a guy doing something himself in his own garage and it shows....I have dorked my own car...and maybe someday when I am not under a timeline, I will pull it all back out and un-dork-ify it. LOL One thing I did successfully accomplish and correct is banish the Hagans! I had seen a post about "What to do with Hagans" and a guy posted that he converted his to use "real" headlight buckets and retaining rings and put in a set of '54 inner trim rings. Stoked to see his results, I got me some late 60's GM headlight buckets and retaining rings, a set of '54 Ford inner trim rings and set to work. I modified the Hagan base plate to hold the GM bucket by welding on some locking nuts for the adjusting screws and welded the head of the Hagan spring screw to the edge of the GM bucket: Mounted the hagan base plate back in place where it came from, put a couple of screw holes in the Ford inner ring and they almost look "right".....righter than a pie plate anyway. I have a real set of '52 Ford/Merc headlight rings to eventually use, but for now, this was a quick and easy fix to make them more presentable. Mucho bettero....
Wow for never having noticed them those old headlights where terrible! This is a huge improvement even if it's a temp one. As far as your headliner id suggest altering your pattern and then making a test headliner out of muslin. Leaving a large seem allowance and not finishing the seams at all so if you need to change it you can. And THEN go ahead and make your final product. About a billion hours in a studio working on flat patterning and you learn that a lot of things that look simple arent, and messing up $50+ a yard fabric instead of cheap cotton really blows. Keep at it
Hanging a headliner is NOT child's play...but I gotta give you a C- for effort...and the headlights are certainly UN-DORKified now...looks much better... R-
Lookin' good Dave. StrayKat 500 just wasn't the same without that green Merc sitting in the parking lot! By the way, when should I bring the '57 over? It'll be ready for interior pretty soon!
LOL...that's funny Roger, cuz as I was grading myself, C- was exactly what I graded it as. I was hoping at least to pull off B work, guess I gotta study more. Jim....apparently, you didn't look at the pictures of my work....I'm not quite ready for primetime (unless you are happy with an interior that looks like socks on a rooster). LOL
No real advantage, just looks cooler (except when I do it..LOL) with the pleats running front to back the length of the car I guess. My original plan was simply to take the old, stained headliner out, take it all apart to use for a pattern and make a new one the same way...except maybe with green piping in the seams. But, as I was working on everything else, I thought I might give the front to back on a try kind of as a practice run for the "real" headliner that I will do after I cut apart my top to relocate the rear window and hard top it. I did learn a lot from this attempt, so all is not lost other than a pile of unsightly wrinkles.
C- for effort? No way that is way too low. More like a solid A for the effort. It takes a brave man to try to tackle a head liner. Great job Dave, keep us updated with the progress.
Well, there was a lot of research, a lot of lost sleep, deep thought and ultimately, work....so I might accept the A on effort. How about the C- for result?
Well Mick, maybe I'll revise my grade AFTER I attempt to do another headliner in my new project...it isn't that much fun...and FWIW, I put the headliner in the '60 Chevy wagon...pic below after I hung it... And here I am laying on my back trying to pull it tight... And those are my arms (I'm laying on my back) stapling the headliner to the front... But, for some reason I can't find the pic of the finished project...it came out real nice and tight tho. When I find it I'll post it...until then a C- is the best I can give to Dr. Dave... As I said, it's not child's play...!!! R-
I'm pretty sure I've seen pics of it all up...I'd did turn out good. I am the first to stand up and say I am way off the mark and I thought no sense only posting my successes, but I'll post my failures too....this is live, unscripted HAMB right here. For me, there is a lot to learn from failures....and I make a lot of them, and often have to do things over two or three times to get them right. This headliner is certainly a prime example. My welding is another....not that I am good by any stretch, but have improved from warping the living goof out of everything to not warping too badly. LOL I figured I'd post up the mess and maybe get a few good tips from folks who are smarter and better than me....like the great one from Tim...and at the very least show a good way not to do it. My life is often a good example of how not to do things. LOL
Dave, I'd offer to do the headliner but I'm in the wrong neighbourhood, I have a caddy in the shop right now with Hagans and I have a set of ford rings. I'm going to try your idea.
Thanks for the offer Jack...I know you sure could pull it off. The hagan conversion was real easy. If you have ?'s about it when go after it, give me a shout.
Dumb question, but, if the headliner is now front to back, could not a set of bows be made that fit front to back as well? Would that make it easier or improve the fit? Steve
Really do enjoy your posts and at least for me what you are doing is what hot rods and customs are all about! Thanks for taking the time to tell us the good and the not so good but you still get an A+ for effort!
I suppose that could be done. I suspect the factory bows are made out of spring steel, so making another set out of plain steel might be tricky. I mentioned the Custom Rodder article describing front to back bows made out of conduit with tack strips attached to staple the headliner to. I simply decided to try this route after seeing the pic with the tabs hanging the headliner from the factory bows. Seemed easier. Whether I do it this way again or the conduit way when I do the "real" headliner remains to be seen.
The back glass went in yesterday. I had planned to do it myself, but chickened out and called a pro. I guess it was a good thing....took him over 3 hours. :O Pulled the car out this morning to drive to work for the first time since Oct and stopped to snap a quick profile pic to compare the new flatter profile glass to the more bulbous one I took out. Much improved. I know it's a small ticky detail thing most would never notice, but I did and after the disappointment with the headliner, I was glad to see that the very thing I started this whole project over (changing the back glass) proved to be a positive change after all. Here's a composite with the car pretty close to when I first got it (after I put the lowering blocks in so it didn't look quite so 4x4 anymore) and the shot from this morning. I also slipped the real Appletons in yesterday and am very pleased with them and their placement vs where the dummies were mounted.....small victories. Obviously, I'm still going to have to block and paint the bottom half, but that's not going to be done before leaving for Indy next week. I'll get the side glass back in and some trim around them, button the interior back up and hit the road to Indy. Whew!!
The Jalopy Journal
