Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

I hear that, I have three languishing long term projects, I hate it when people say to me "Just put one foot after the other, they'll get finished".
I'm sure that's true but I think I'm gonna need to grow more feet!

 

Don't feel bad. I have an ot 74-ish mini that I have been working on since 2002. I've thought about selling it numerous times but just can't do it. So its next on the list of projects in the garage. It seems like I like vehicles that are too small for me...

 

Who really needs a spare welder? I'm sure I can make room for it in my postage stamp garage.

And you certainly need to hold on to the Mini - it might be a mite too small for you, but it'll fit me just fine. And once it's back up and wheeling around under power again (but not under-powered!), getting hauled around on your upgraded trailer, we'll have 2x the drivers (3x if SWMBO can be cajoled into the driver's seat). I really do need to move closer, don't I?

 

Yes it's true. 5-9 and 140 pounds vs 6 give or take depending on my back that day and 255. Yeah you'll fit. And it and your vdub will both fit in your 1 car garage with room to spare.

And yes! With a larger garage next time. Remember there's a 30 Sport Coupe in your future someday as well...30 years give or take.

 

I hate electronic devices! Lost the first attempt to post an update, so I'll try again.

Worked in the garage today. Steering is next on the list of things to make work on the Whatever project. I think this is where the Vega steering box is going to end up. It's a Borgeson Vega steering box and it was worth the expense to make sure I have a good one. Now I just have to reverse the thing to get it steering correctly. I may machine the end cap myself however Borgeson sells one already reversed when they have them in stock. I'm hoping that they already have the end cap available drilled. That's the hardest part of the reversing process. Well there is a bunch of ball bearings in the nut thingie whatever it's really called.

You just have to turn the shaft end for end and reassemble the box with the shaft sticking out the nut end, hence needing the cap bored for the shaft seal, and the other end capped with a welch plug. Did it decades ago, so I think I can do it over again...

Anyway the engine needs to be raised an inch, which means new side mounts for the front. But the rear mounts as originally intended might not work.

I'm open to suggestions for this. A question that I have regarding the S10 T5 I'm going to use is about its tail mount. Anyone using a stock transmission mount on one of these?

So going this way I can get somewhat good geometry, not perfect, but minimal bump steer. The pivot point is a little lower than the current rear suspension mount on this side. I plan on lowering those pivot points on each side, so the drag link will almost pass right over the rear pivot point. The drag link will be slightly longer than the suspension link, so slightly different arc paths, but minimal difference, a quick analysis on paper shows that to be in the hundredths of an inch deviation.

And when I eventually make a hood, I might have to make some sort of scoop or bump to clear the carburetor.

So doing all this I also mocked up the seating position and steering column setup. When all done, it will only require 1 u-joint and the steering wheel will be almost perfect.

WOW this building from scratch isn't easy... but I know better!

 

Well maybe I will get some time back in the garage today, that is if it airs out! It seems like the local rodent population likes working on the Whatever project also...

I put some garbage out last night and boy did it smell in the garage. And it wasn't the bin, as that sits outside. This morning it was worse, so I knew that it had to be something dead.

It was! I found a putrifying chipmunk besides the recycling bin (it's home is right by the door landing). He was already bloated and fast falling apart. And stink...

A bunch of Clorox and hopefully later today it will air out. And the chipmunk is now out in the woods acting like vulture food

 

Did you get some fans set up to clear out the odor of decomp yet? If the cat isn't allowed out there, you could try one of those ultrasonic emitters... or at least remove whatever source(s) of food the little guy was going for.

 

Nothing in the way of food, unless they like steel or aluminum, or cutting fluids. Clorox did the trick. I was organizing nuts and bolts today before taking another look at the steering box. I would prefer cross steer setup, so I might have to make some changes to the steering arms on the spindles. They are just steel plate so no big deal to modify them.

And that's the rest of the story...

 

Dave, I used an S10 trans in one of the Roadsters. The funny thing is, of the couple I have mounted, the flange for the mount is not square with the world. I couldn't bring myself, to fab the mount crooked, so I installed the engine mounts, and fabbed the trans crossmember square. The flex in the rubber mount, corrected for the misalignment. These were flatheads, with Offy adaptors, not sure if that's were the discrepancy came from.

 

Thanks for the information Marty. That's interesting that the mount ended up crooked. I'll let you know when I get mine home and bolted up if the mount is crooked.

I'm going to be copying your body mounts over the weekend, once it cools down here. I had 1/8th steel sheet sheared and flanged like you did for your modifieds. I have to go back and see how you fastened them to your framerails. I've gotten so many great ideas for the Whatever project since joining the HAMB. I'm having fun building this thing and learning new things while doing it.

 

This is one in a Model A, see the the RH twist in the orientation ?

 

Looking at the A chassis there's one thing to be said for the transmission ending up a little crooked: you gain a tiny bit of clearance to your right leg, as the shifter is rooled away from the driver...

Now I'm hoping that this is intentional on the part of GM. It will help get my fat @$$ a little more room.

No one ever told me just how small a T body really is...

No pictures today, however I massaged the bolt on steering arms today. I moved the tie rod holes to 1 gain clearance and 2 adjust geometry a little bit. Now I have just enough room to get the Vega steering box up front in a cross steer setup like intended.

And Marty, I started plaigerizing your body mounts as well. It is a really slick way too. And best of all is it also makes quite a bit of the floor for me. When I make the center of the floor, I'm going to use the same thickness plate, and make the driveshaft tunnel at the same time. And it will bolt in so removable from above to get to the transmission. It also may give me a unique way to get pedals in the car. More on that later...

 

Got quite a bit done this weekend. This is where I want the steering box. To get it to work here, there were a few modifications to make to other parts, in particular the steering arms. Left side. Right side.

I had to move the tie rod holes to get the geometry where I wanted it to be regarding Ackerman, and to clear the drag link from the Vega steering box. Now everything clears, and it should have geometry that helps turn in.
Here's a part for another project now... maybe the sprint car I'm thinking about... By the way, it started life as a steering arm from Speedway for their Chevy spindles. If you look at the dimensions you'll find that the hole spacing difference between a Ford spindle and a Chevy spindle is 1/4 inch, and the holes are sized for smaller bolts on the Chevy. So set it up in a mill, and use a 1/2 mill and open the holes up and moving out by cutting so that the inner edge of the existing holes just get touched by the mill. Viola, you just made a Chevy part fit a Ford spindle.

Next, I made a new tie rod, just need to make a couple of welds tomorrow. Here's the tie rod waiting for welding. This is one of the short heavy wall tubes threaded for rod ends, 1 left hand and 1 right hand thread. And because my small Craftsman lathe would have taken more work to get the steps turned, I instead used my Delta Double Duty lathe and a lathe file. It is actually quite fast and more than accurate enough for this job. Here's the finished step on one of the ends. Tomorrow I'll drill some holes for plug welds and bevel the ends of the center tube for weld prep.

Now the last thing accomplished today was getting started with mounting the body. Here's Marty Strode's method as I have done it. So far the way oversized 1/8 inch plates are tacked on the frame and the body has been squared up and clamped down. Next is a brand new Sharpie and trace the body on the plates. Oh and drill a couple of holes to locate the plates back on the frame after I contour them to match the body.

And I worked in the garage for some of the time as dusk fell with the door closed even though it was getting stuffy in there. It seems we have a neighborhood black bear who is a little bit curious. I thought I heard something out in the driveway last night. It was probably the bear bumping into my engine hoist while checking the garbage can for something to eat.

Now if I can only train him to lift heavy stuff for me...

 

Welded up the tie rod and installed it. It looks like I got the geometry correct and have the clearance needed for the drag link. Got the Strode Method body mounts marked for contouring tomorrow. Woo woo progress...

 

Here I come to save the day!
Some fresh photos from our favorite fabricator (maybe assembler in this case, but that doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well). Dave, I'll leave it to you to provide further narration.

 

Thanks ratrodder. What would I do without your help? My camera is charging, and being computer illiterate, I don't know how to get pictures from my iPhone to my Samsung tablet to post. But I can send them to my nephew who grew up with computers.

So now I have to tell what the pictures are of.

1st is the steering box tacked into place. Maybe... Forgot I have to get the radiator in as well.

2nd is the modified left side steering arm.
3rd is the right side arm.
4th is an inside shot of the steering box tacked into place.
5th is the oops. The radiator doesn't fit. Rats I was so close.

That's the bad news. The good news is that 3 tack welds and I can relocate the mounting bracket to clear the radiator. Then I have to figure out what to do to get the drag link in a better position. Probably have to make a new pitman arm a bit longer, which has some benefit. Mainly it can be made to get the drag link parallel with the tie rod. Secondly, it will be longer, which will speed up the effective steering ratio.

The Borgeson Vega steering box is 20:1, and with the current setup appropriately 4 full turns lock to lock. With the longer pitman arm it should be around 3 turns.

3D Tetris...

 

Finally got some time back in the garage today. Contoured the Strode Method body mounts and tacked back into place. Here's the left side tacked into place. Both sides. Body back in place.

So now I won't keep gashing my shins on the grossly oversized plates I started with. I'm still ruminating about the steering box. I really like where it is on the frame from a geometry and function points of view. So I looked at the problem from a different perspective.

The problem is that the radiator I have won't fit. It also is wider than the nose. What to do?

I decided to step back and see if the nose and body line up. It's a little hard to get a good perspective with it in the garage. Tomorrow I'll roll it out and get better pictures. I'm looking for input, so let me know what you think.

 

Posted before I remembered what I was going to say. I'm thinking that a different radiator is being called for. So tomorrow I plan on going to a big box store and getting some insulation board and seeing how much room I have for the radiator. There must be a radiator shop near me that could make a custom radiator.

 

BTW I was looking at a Speedway Motors radiator. They list a radiator that is 16.5 inches wide, 26 inches tall and 3.25 inches thick. This would fit inside the the nose and clear the steering box. Any comments on their radiators?

 

The body mount look slick. Marty knows what he's doing!

Wonder if you could use an existing radiator from a compact car, something you could pull from a junkyard? Would something meant for a 4 cylinder still provide enough cooling for the V8?

 

Rolled it out for some pictures this morning. Looking forward to comments, I'm partial so I may be seeing it with rose colored glasses.

 

I hate it when I do that! Fat fingers on a small tablet bites again. Here's the pictures:

 

My bad again. They are self explanatory however, so I won't bore everyone with my diatribe. Next off to get the Styrofoam board to mock up a radiator.

 

Dave
I don't have the expereince that Marty has with track nose cars but I'm thinking you will need a pretty efficient radiator due to the limited opening size of the grille, a good part of the available incoming air will be swooshing past the opening.
Don't recall but are you planning to use a fan shroud, it would be quite beneficial.
By the way, Ron Davis makes really nice application and custom aluminum radiators.
I like that you are building this car with your racing knowledge in mind, it's looking better every day.

 

Lookin good!!

 

Yes I have my concerns about the nose opening. I will be making a fan shroud down the road once more of the variables become fixed. As was mentioned somewhere in the past it's just fiberglass. I can make the opening larger. Not having a grill for it is a good thing...

I hope I end up with enough room for a mechanical fan. I've never really liked electric fans. I'll check out Ron Davis. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Looks pretty darn good as it sits.

 

Thanks for the positive comments. As I said before I need all of the help I can get.

Any ideas on how I can fasten the hood once I figure out how to make it?

Next step is to make a cowl support hoop. That's easy to say, hard to get the fit I'm after. Well it's only steel, cut weld and grind to cover up any mist... that's to say change in directions.

 

The hood taper looks spot on.

I would fasten the hood with straps like Marty has done.

 

Dave, I like to use these stainless butterfly cam latches, they are small, strong, and reliable. We used belts on the Spalding, but since yours is a later era car, I would go with latches.