There's such a thing as TOOO low...

You haven't had the MII setup on your car for very long have you? Although it does seem like the springs crapping out is the most obvious culprit here, I would be wondering why the springs went to hell so quickly.

 

Were your MII springs NEW or new to you(used)? Try a new set of springs up front. They should be available at your local auto parts store(CarQuest, O'Reilly's, NAPA, maybe even the dead Zone) for less than a $100 the pair. They'll have to order them from the warehouse or mfgr and have them for you in a few hours or a couple of days.
New coil springs are so cheap I don't know why anyone reuses old ones if new are available for their car.

 

I keep one around for working on my sidecar, and have been using it on the Fiat project. Very handy tools.

 

Here's a couple of technical issues. Pug Man is right on, but here's why.

Your lower arms and tie rods should be flat or slightly down on the ends. They are up. This means the suspension is in a position it should only see on a big bump. Now add a bump and your travel is used up. This is hell on camber and will kill your corning manners.

Now about that rake, The stock MII front suspension didn't have enough castor in it. If it was installed stock, that attitude has taken all of your castor away. I'll bet it likes to wander side to side if not out right dart around. You need to get the front up and may need to get the back down just to get the steering geometry back into normal territory.

The MII was most often found with a 4 cylinder or V6. Those springs simply won't hold all that steel and any spring usually settles in after a few months. You should start with NEW V8 springs and stock spindles. Then drive it for a while to settle things in and see where you're at. That would be the time to decide about the rear and maybe let the front back down a bit.

 

If the lower control arms need to be parallel to the ground, installing stock spindles will not help you. You will gain clearance, but it won't correct the geometry.

I would try one of two things - stiffer modern shocks, or a new set of springs.

Also go to the Chevy dealership and ask for a set of S-10 bumpstops called ZQ-8. A lot of 90's B-bodys run these and they are a miracle bumpstop. My Caprice was dropped 2" on 20's and would slam into the bumpstops until I installed these. They are taller and softer and in some instances will even touch the frame at ride height, which is okay. I'm about to install some on my Prerunner Tacoma too.

As for the jack problem, like some others have said you should have a 2x4 that you can drive on to gain clearance for a jack. Please don't lift your car just to fit a jack under it.

 

My 2 bobs worth Tracy My 52 has 2in dropped spindles and 3in blocks in the rear. Drives great.Bet your coils are for V8 ,try stock Chevy 6 cyl springs because the are heaps stronger because the original 235 is considerably heavier than the bent motor that you are using.

no crime to have inline

 

That car is not low. 5 in. is plenty of ground clearance for a custom.
I agree that the springs may be shot...too soft. If the ride is harsh, then it's bottoming out too quickly. Stiffer springs will help, as well as those miracle bumpstops. I like them too!
As for turning radius, are the tires rubbing? or does it hit the stop on the spindle? If the tires rub, try a narrower tire, or get front rims with a bit more backspacing. I've noticed that the dropped spindles for M2 suspensions tend to have a larger turning radius, the stops hit too soon. I guess they build them like that so tires won't rub. If you have tire clearance, then just grind down the stops a bit, a little means a lot here, go easy. Don't raise the car up any more! Any custom worth it's salt has to drive up onto 2 x 4's to get a jack under it.
That's the price you pay to be cool!

 

It doesn't have 5 inches... it has 2 3/8"....


Ok, the plan is new springs and removing the dropped spindles for now. The springs were ones my Dad had laying around the garage, and for $100, i'll get some new ones and see where I am in a couple of months.

As for the turning radius, I going to get the car jacked up, and see what's rubbing under load. I suspect it has to do with my wheels, but we'll have to see.

Thanks for all the replies, I'll keep everyone posted.

Stacey

 

It doesn't have 5 inches... it has 2 3/8"....


Ok, the plan is new springs and removing the dropped spindles for now. The springs were ones my Dad had laying around the garage, and for $100, i'll get some new ones and see where I am in a couple of months.

As for the turning radius, I going to get the car jacked up, and see what's rubbing under load. I suspect it has to do with my wheels, but we'll have to see.

Thanks for all the replies, I'll keep everyone posted.

Stacey

 

just my 2 cents..A M2 front end is designed for approx weight of a 2300 to 2800 pound car..Most 50's Shoeboxes weigh in between 3200 to 3400 pounds. Just too much on a stock M2 springs. especially with a rake . that just puts more of the cars weight up front. I would look into a spring rated for your cars weight. Get a scale that will weigh around 2000 pounds and place 2 of them under each front wheel that will tell you what your cars front end weighs. and Go from there! take it to a truck stop..or find/ make a friend at the DMV or weighmaster cop and see if they will weigh your 4 corners. than buy a spring rated at that weight. You will also have to decide on spring length to set your ride height.

 

My guess is that the mustang 11 springs are not heavy enough for the weight of the car. Search around and find the same diameter springs that have a little larger diameter wire and cut them to the same length,or slitely longer.

 

exactly ! I was expecting something sledding out. man, thats damn near 4x4 status !

 

A couple of the replies have mentioned different shocks as a possible cure. Could someone explain how a shock could actually raise the ride height of the car? Unless they are air shocks or have a spring wrapped around them, all they're gonna do is dampen the motion of the suspension.

 

I've gave the earlier posts a quick read, and didn't see any mention of the problem of some M II upper spring pockets breaking out, and causing everything to sag. With any luck, that won't be the case, but it won't hurt to take a good look at it to be sure. If it checks out ok, great. The only thing left, would have to be the springs themselves, and that's been mentioned earlier.

 

OK, some of yall aren't getting this MII stuff. For one thing, the V8 springs from the MII are gonna be too stiff for these cars. Keep in mind that the MII had the 302 V8 placed with the REAR mains about centered over the front axle centerline! That means nearly ALL of the engine weight (iron heads & intake!), plus the weight of the accessories and the radiator full of coolant was in front of the axle centerline. In the Chevy, the axle centerline runs roughly just behind the front main. So usually the V6 springs are what you want if you're running a small block.

Also, the MII ball joints are the same as the ones FoMoCo put on the big 460-powered Lincoln Land Yachts of the mid-70s. Pleanty enough for a little 3500# Chevy.

I think those who were mentioning that you have over-fatigued springs are on the right track. There have been some bad batches of springs, so even if they came "new" with a kit, you might do well to replace them. Personally, I'd try this before ditching the dropped spindles.

I had a similar issue on my 52 sedan, and 2 things that helped the issue (surprisingly, to me):
1. Chassis engineering sway bar. Seriously. It looks like you don't have a sway bar at all. These are worth every penny of the $130 or so that they cost. This one change reduced my bottoming out by probably 90%!!! I don't really know why, but it did help!
2. Lower the rear a bit more. This also helped me, but the way I did it was putting different springs on the rear, which gets a bit pricey... but my theory is that the slightly lower rear changes the weight bias (front vs. back) just a bit, and also slightly raises the front bumper. I'm talking about maybe 1/2 inch or so.

 

I think she's on track now, with the new springs going in. I'm thinking more about the turning radius, hopefully its just tire/fender clearance. Cured with new ride height

Good luck!

 

I agree...this one's been pretty well beat like a red-headed step-child. But,,,,,,a little more info. Action Girl...in the interim, you can jack your car by the radiator mount. I have to do the same on my Chevy and while I prefer not to, it will get your car high enough to get a couple stands under the frame-rails in the front. From there you can jack it up by the frame or crossmember.

Also, it looks like you're running a Heights or Fatman standard crossmember. Nothing wrong with that, but that explains why the clearance is limited without being as low as some people posting here would like to see...

Bryan

 

#1-don't worry about getting a floor jack under the front. Use boards as mentioned above. Or, as I do and use a small jack on the frame behind the front wheels and raise car high enough to get jack under front crossmember. Two jacks, a hassle-yes, but it works. Then always use jack stands when doing anything under car. #2-Replacement springs are not the cheapest thing to do because you are still spending money as you guess what is wrong/right. Check at a good parts house and get some grooved rubber donut rings that go on coil springs. These only require removing springs and reinstalling. They will help raise your front end an inch or so. Have a hot rod friendly frontend shop check your alignment. Turning problem in part is likely because of the large size front tires you are running. Rims over 6" wide also contribute to steering problems. The lower you go the less inner fender clearance you have. I guess you have manual steering. As mentioned before, you need a a front anti-sway bar if not one on it now. You can go to 3" lowering blocks/u-bolts in the back without adding problems, just need to cut down rubber stops. You have lots of people trying to help, take it one step at a time.

 

I am sure that she has the problem well in hand but to answer your question. The change of shock can help the ride.

Personal experience. Car was bottoming out on most bumps and had regular plain jane shocks on front. I picked up some good shocks, ARC I believe, not that expensive. Made a lot of difference where I can leave the car low.

Determine if the problem is the height or the ride and then fix the problem.

Neal

 

Yep. Try new springs first, it's cheaper than spindles. Mine did the same thing. I have a Chassis Engineering M2 that has adjustable spring pockets, so I raised them, but still not enough (i cut 2 coils out when I installed, thought it was still too high .. a year later it was like yours). I would recommend Detroit Eaton Spring. They will make you a custom spring based on your vehicle and the desired ride height. I would say my springs from my M2 kit sagged a good 3" over the years.

Your control arms need to be level with the ground. You NEED a sway bar (they came from the factory with them, and EVERY independent front suspension is unsafe with out them because they control roll.

Put a 2x6 on top of your jack and put it perpendicular under the front frame rails near where the radiator core support is. A 2x4 will break, I tried it

 

Yeah, I don't have one... we never put it back on. I'd like to know more about them because I don't. Exactly how do they work?

Stacey

 

Each front tire rests on a spring. Or, more accurately, each wheel is attached to a control arm, which pushes up on a spring. That spring is what (obviously) supports the weight of the vehicle. When you go around a corner, the car leans, and the spring compresses on one side, which is fine, but the weight on the other spring is lessened, and that spring then is able to push down more on the control arm, and adds to the roll. A sway bar ties the two control arms together so when the one spring compresses it pulls the other one down with it, reducing the roll. All independent front suspensions have these, and many rear suspensions too. It really makes a big difference safety and driveabillity wise.

 

good tech. sticky..Im definetly going to put one on my rear too this winter, would like to find a larger diameter anti-sway bar for the front, these shoeboxes can really benifit from the control they offer!

 

When the spindles were changed, did the brakes get changed also? Some big brake kits move the wheel out about 3/4 inch. Are the wheels stock offset? And how wide?

buflochp

 

Yes, I have 11 inch disc brakes. I need to measure to answer your question. The wheels up front are different than the stock ones in the rear. The stock wheels didn't fit after the M2 went in. So, I'm not really sure what they are other than to say that the same tires are on all around, and they have the same bolt pattern. I did all this stuff a while back and for the most part used what my Dad had in the garage when I needed it. If the wheels are the issue, I need to find the right ones and get 5 of them so I can have all the tires re-mounted. At the moment, my spare is only helpful for the back two tires, which is admittedly GAY.

I went through so much shit to get this beast on the road, that once she was running, I didn't have any immediate interest in doing all the other stuff... like matching all the wheels, sway bar, emergency brake, etc. Seems stupid in retrospect, but man... did I want to put some miles on her. : )

Now, I need to sort this all out, because one thing at a time is trying to bite me in the hiney.

Stacey

 

Stacey,
All my ideas have already been mentioned except one:

Be sure to get the frontend aligned after you make the aforementioned changes. That'll help the handling and ensure you get maximum tire life.

-Gary

 

Lower your rear down some. that will raise the front slightly (at least the bumper). I know there are a bunch of folks here saying its not to low.. for some of us 'its not to low', having drove my wagon all over the country with it sitting as low it not slightly lower (but my crossmembers was raised to allow for more clearance. and i had rear only bags to get over speedbumps and carry stuff.. the new owner took the 2" dropped spindles out and mayhave replaced the springs to get another 1/2" or 1" higher.. its all what you are used to and what you are willing to put up with.

I built a set of wood ramps out of 2x8 that were 32" long, the second level was about 18".. with a small piece at the end to stop the tire. I would drive up on them and that would allow a jack under it. I would suggest buying a small sissor jack and carry a small board in the trunk for emergencies..


If you want it low and have it be able to turn, then airbags are your only answer...

best of luck

 

Not to be caustic or anything ,but the crossmember in Stacy's car is part of the problem she is having.
If you look at the first posts pic of the front suspension,you can see what I am saying.....
If you sight a line across the two bolts that hold on the lower control arms you can easily see that the bottom of the crossmember and the rack mount centerline are actually designed-OR dropped down approximately 1 to 1-1/2" lower than the Imaginary line through the lower A arm mount/centerline.
I am comapring this to a FORD...Mustang II crossmember....
That is done because it allows the install without "C"ing the frame above the rack for clearing its location if it were mounted at it's original height intended by Ford.....
This is why this aChevy is sitting a tad higher-WHILE also dragging at times too.... It can also create some ill effects in the cars driving characteristics.....I bet this is about 2" difference between this and a stock crossmember.....

 

definately need new springs. The bottom control arms as well as the tie rods are supposed to be parallel with the bottom of the x member.

 

Back again, will shut up after this. You have a lot of good ideas heading your way, but you are looking for a solution to the problem. This is very hard to do without more information from you. Please list everything you did when you changed to the current frontend, and why. Looks like a early stock Must II frontend. You mention changing spindles and brakes since installation-anything else? Left off the sway bar for later?
The more exact info hopefully will get a more exact answer.
Even to upgrade the springs whoever makes them will need you to tell them exactly what you want. They can give you ballpark ideas, but again this is your ride and know it best.
If the ideas presented do not give you the solution that satisfies you then find a top notch shop that does suspension work on customs, etc. in your area and get their input.
You are not the first to chage things only to find it may have caused more problems than benefits. Hang in there, and do what you must do to get it right.