I have a one shot project that requires tig welding-chromoly, and was wondering if i could get away with a harbor freight tig welder. Anyone have experience with a harbor freight model 98233 welder? This really is a one project welder, and when i'm done it goes to a swap meet or the trash. I can't see spending $2000. For a miller just for one project. Thanks!
the harbor freight unit IS NOT FOR ANYTHING STRUCTURAL! DO NOT USE IT FOR ANYTHING THAT MIGHT GET YOU HURT!
Look for a used brand name unit... a new Miller can be had for under $1200.00 plus the foot control (if you want one)... another $250.00 or so for the bottle. I doubt you'll wnat to sell it after you are done. If you don't want to invest that much in tools have another shop weld it up for you... no harm in that.
I like the rental idea... local welder sales outfits around here will rent their used trades for a pretty good price.... get one for a week or a month.
Thanks for the input! This is what I was looking for. Plan A is to rent, Plan B is to buy a used Miller, use it, then turn around and sell it-maybe. Thanks again guys-Have a Happy New Year! Bob L.
Do you know that the aircraft guys gas weld chrome moly? Is that an option if you don't want to spend on a TIG?
ChromeMoly is steel, weld it with whatever. If it is going to be certified for racing then it has to be TIG'd, but if you've got a project that needs chromemoly you can weld with whatever you're happy with.
OJ, you obviously have not had a Mig'ed 4130 joint fail on you , or repaired one....I have had several customers say it was the most freightning experience(motorcycle frames)...If you dont have a Tig welder , and are a good gas welder , gas weld it , or even Brazing is better than a mig weld on 4130....There are several british motorcycles that were brazed joint cunstruction with the british equal of 4130 (530 renolds I believe) and they are just as sound today as when they were built.
I have an old race friend who is a welding inspector and lead hand. He told me to buy a scratch tig attachment for my Miller AC/DC machine. He worked for a year ina remote mine location running a team of welders and he said that was all they used . He said since i can gas weld real well anyway that I would have no trouble Tigging with a scratch tig and the annoyance of it not self starting disappears as you build experience. i saw a scratch tig torch yesterday for $119 (chinese)and may pick it up although I would much prefer having the one he recommended I buy. Oh I know guys , here we go. No foot pedal, no self start, etc, etc but this guy does this for a living and is the guy who welded together the new Maid of the Mist for Niagara Falls. His welds p***ed X ray so i think he knows what he is talking about. I also asked a Hemi friend who is a just retired refinerey welder (35 years). He said "absolutley , go for it." I have tried it with my welder and a hand made torch to see if I can do it. I can. No bells and whistles but for occasional use I think twould be fine. I'll duck now while all the rich kids with $5000 welders they never use pipe in. Don
I have a TIG torch with gas control in the handle that I use on my AC/DC Airco machine. Scratch start, no pedal. I have used it for steel and SS. Never learned on a real machine, so I don't know what I'm missing. Fellow that does drag and hot rod ch***is told me about this setup. If you have AC/DC machine try it out. If not, see if local supplier has demo unit you can rent/try.
I aint rich, dont have a 5000 dolla welder. I do have a 2000 dolla welder tthat I use everyday. I'm not gonna knock anyones opinion or call others names. However, I firmly believe that moly tubing should never be mig-ed. I know it can be done with good result, but its too easy to get wrong. Done wrong the parent material around the weld gets brittle and will fail with little or no stress. Also advice from PIPE welders doesnt usually translate to moly TUBING. Pipe has a thicker schedule, and is fairly soft. (in most cases) Moly is thinner and harder than PIPE. In the nearly 20 years that I have been building drag race cars we have had many PIPE welders come by and take a welder test, most of them fail. Welding moly that will p*** nhra/ihra tech is single p***, no clean up, no grinding, finesse welding. Most pipe welders arent use to that. Nor should you take advice from a "schooled" welder with no time on the job. As for the scratch start, it ****s, by the time you get the arc struck you have usually wiped out the tip and will have to chase a wandering arc till your sanity is done for. How many tmes would you have to restrike the arc to get the above welded??
what do you need welded? Im in NJ and might be able to help if its nothing huge. My suggestion would be instead of by HF **** or even buying a new name brand machine and returning it or selling it, why not buy a good used name brand machine and keep it? (not sure if that had been suggested or not) http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/1506566820.html http://reading.craigslist.org/tls/1525354226.html http://southjersey.craigslist.org/tls/1504262756.html http://southjersey.craigslist.org/tls/1487004840.html
Thanks for the input on welding chrome moly. I think a lot of people forget that steel isn't just steel, but chemical compostions or alloys. They all react to heat, and gases differently(sometimes drastically). Advice on welding is more important than the brand of welder.
If you are not up on welding cm get someone who is.You could possablly hurt or kill someone.Learn from someone who really knows.Not some self proclaimed expert.
I am ***uming your doing the welding, i don't understand the reason for doing the job and then selling the welder? spend a little more than the harbor frieght one and get a clean used machine and keep it, it's now not only another shop tool but a money maker, keep it runnin and the money flowin.
mig welded Moly is very popular in offroad racing , my boss has a buggy that filled with moly tubes that have been migwelded , guess what after 10yrs of beating the **** out of it it,s still crack free . a welded joint regardless of the material and procedure is only as good and the fitment of the joint , weld prep and person performing the weld procedure .
WHOLEY AND COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT CIR***STANCES....... Drag racing is full of HIGH FREQUENCY VIBRATIONS. Jeeper **** is not. 10 years of beating the **** out of a jeep at 5-10 mph WILL NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO SLAMMING A CONCRETE WALL AT 150+ MPH. This is one place where speculation and maybe's can and will KILL YOU. For instance, when Pops ordered a cage kit for his YJ, the tubes all came with the seam pointed to the inside. My first thought was,,, these guys are rank amatuers. When I am bending up a mild steel cage for a race car all seams are pointed away from the driver. Crashes at speed place enough stress on a welded seam tube to open the seam, which turns into a jagged edge. When I brought this up to other Jeepers, they said they have never seen a tube split like that and that I worried to much. I have seen this happen on some relativly sedate drag race crashes. DO NOT TAKE A MIG WELDED MOLY TUBED CAR FOR A CERTIFICATION. (unless you like being laughed at.) 2008 NHRA Rulebook, General Regulations 4:10 ROLL BARS: All 4130 chromoly tube welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel welding must be done by approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. See illustration. Roll bar must be padded anywhere drivers helmet may contact it while in driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum 1/4-inch compression or meet S.F.I. Spec 45.1. All cars running 180-mph or faster, S.F.I. Spec 45.1 mandatory.
i,m very aware of NHRA/SFI regs when it comes to welding Moly , where did the person state it was gonna be a for a dragcar ?? they did not so why bring it up , and i,m willing to bet a offroad racer would see alot more abuse then a 6 or 7 sec p*** down the track a few times a weekend . as for the seam on the tube it should always be 90deg to the bend as the centerline of the tube dosen,t change during the bend , and only hacks use ERW for cage work the stuff is junk and depending on the size DOM is not much more to buy and way better material to work with be it street rod or drag race
Rent, borrow or hire out. This is not the place to cut a corner. Save you money someplace else. You are more useful to us, and your family, alive.
Mikey, mig welded moly ch***is are avaliable & safe, the difference is the ch***is is heat treated at a certified heat treater afterwards, something the home shop HAMB'er probably does not have access to.in which case gas or tig should be your only SAFE option. I know the sprint car ch***is builders have been mig welding with ER80S2 filler , and a trip to the oven on the fixture....I myself do not have acess to that kind of equipment, but a O/A outfit & a Tig machine I do, and have repaired many mig welded bike ch***is that have failed at the MIG weld. These were usually fractures that started at a porosity crater , at the end of a tig weld,and repaired with a Mig, and then to add insult to injury , someone Plated the frame nickel/chrome caus' it looked "cool". But all this does is causes a further embrittlement of the weld zone due to hydrogen embrittlement caused By the plating process, which is why the IHRA/NHRA do not allow plating of frames/ch***is, But the AMA has not jumped on board , and I doubt they will.
i agree if you don,t have the knowledge or the equipment send it out heattreatment in NHRA cases have ended up in a death of a driver during a crash , a few yrs back some builders started heattreating TF & FC ch***is,s some of them failed horribaly and cost a couple guys their lives it,s still up to debate and is still in practice with some builders . with normalized tubing if the procedure is done right there should be no need for heat treatment IMO . i,ve seen sprintcar ch***is,s on vibration tables this method looks interesting do you have any experiance with that ?? and i totally agree with plating if it,s not done right and properly deg***ed your wasting your time and $$$ IMO
Here is some info on welding chrome moly if you decide to do it yourself. The only thing I would change is, I would use 3/32" diameter Ceriated (orange stripe instead of a red stripe) tungsten. Hope this helps.
The Jalopy Journal
