I didn't say production street cars...just street driven race cars. Bangshift.com has a feature on one such beast that just ran 6.93 at 211 at the strip in Vegas....they took the same car cruising on the town that same night.
OK, checked it out. I'll give. THAT 1 particular car does seem plausible to some degree. But, still a race car driven on the street is a lot different than a street car that can do 6 - 7s p***es. Just because this 1 guy seems to be able to put a few street miles on his car, not too convinced it is a real street car and has any kind of durability that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain at that level for any reasonable number of miles. You drive a car like that around on the street too much and it won't take long before it isn't going to do 6-7s anymore without some serious work/cash. But still, I'll give you that one. Let's see these friends cars if you don't mind. That Nova was pretty kick *** and over the top. Would honestly be curious about these other extreme cars too. Maybe I need to readjust my perception of the realistically possible. Can't be that many streetable cars around with 2300hp and can go over 200mph.
Uh, from what I gather, that same car made a 1000 mile road trip...only difference between as raced and as driven was the quality of the gas and the rear skins. Time to make some major readjustments Bubba!
Maybe, but again, let's see your friends rides. Still curious who else in the world can be driving around in cars like this one. That must have been one hell of fun 1000 mile trip at about 1-2 mpg race fuel. I am not close to believing that car can run on 91 octane pump gas with 2300hp. That by itself is pretty darn unbelievable.
No...I believe you misunderstood what I said. I don't have any friends with cars like that...I was referring to that particular car, and what its performance represents.
OK, like I said, I'll definitely acknowledge that one car seems to be doable. Pretty extreme obviously, but somehow doable I guess.
Okay, I'm nobody, and I don't know ****. I'd like to think I know a little about a lot of things, but unfortunately I really don't know too much about anything. Specifically drag racing? You're right, I wouldn't make a pimple on Tim Conder's (or most anybody here's) ***. Sooooo.. I dunno ****. Got that out of the way okay? My $.02: I can't help but see the parallels in Mr Conder's rant, and what so many threads here turn into, and more generally, in life itself. Ya know, I think there's a common thread that binds the "oh I wish it was the way it used to be" at***ude in any pursuit. Wouldn't you agree it's ALMOST always the realization that we aren't as good at (whatever) as those leading the pursuit? We get left behind. Whether lack of talent, skill, imagination, money, oratory skills, integrity, whatever. Clearly there are others in the pursuit who are better trained, more imaginative, more creative, more organized, more convincing, more innovative, whatever, perhaps they just made better decisions.. and it chaps our buns. Soooo... we don't admit it...we suggest something's wrong with the pursuit or the direction it's taken, or the "new" people in it. Conder's rant is frought with examples. He laments that sign painters should still be lettering cars instead of acknowleging the tremendous talent, skill and innovation it STILL requires to design and decorate a race car body, crew hauler..even a well done vinyl banner. He talks about embellishing the experience with metal flake, beautiful hotrods for crew cars...or a shovel, pan (I can't remember) head to follow the team down the track. A little off topic, but whatdaheck is a beautifully polished Ford Flex (insert any nice car or truck) anyway? It's a beautiful, innovative, imaginative hotrod that some really talented and imaginative people made happen. Whatdaheck is a new RoadGlide or a Goldwing? He talks about his trailer and how innovative it is/was. You wanna see innovative!? Look the haulers and hospitality trailers he and many disparage. That's innovation. Whatdahell are the designers and builders of those things, chopped liver? No, they are at the top of the pursuit. The examples go on and on. Guys, life happens. We make our contribution. We take our pursuits to the highest levels our knowledge and decision-making abilities allow. Technology and innovation continue. Sure, there's no such thing as an original idea. Everything is built on what the oldtimers did before us...some of us are now the oldtimers. Now, I know we'd like to say, "well if he/I had their kind of money I could be doing the same thing(s)". ********. They're others better at the pursuit. Get over it. To wish our (or our Dad's or friend's or hero's) level of talent, skill, or whatever were enough to (still?) be the big fish is perfectly normal. Hell, nostalgia is what drives our hobby/craft. Our fascination comes from seeing how pretty , fast, cool, innovative, etc. something has become compared to our own abilities or those familiar to us. But when it's too far over our heads many of us piss and moan. Pursuing to the best of one's ability should win respect and accolades. But decrying those who have taken the pursuit far beyond that which we are capable is bitter and sad, don't you think? And now back to our regularly scheduled program....
Good point! A lot of people mention the old trailers but I'd be willing to bet a lot of the old timers would love to wrench on their junk under one of the new canopies rather than sweat their ***es off in the hot sun.
The modern rigs represent nothing but cubic cash and arrogance...the older stuff was within the means of the individual. In the old days, fans could go to the track and see the same guys they read about in the magazines, flogging their machinery in T shirts, cursing up a storm and sweating in the sun...Just like they did. Drag racing was most beautiful when it was the most attainable. I lost interest in the Big Show the first time I saw a "hospitality" trailer. At the time we were hauling a T/F car around on the back of a converted ramp truck...and proud of the fact we could pull something like that off...but that hospitality ********...no...those people were not like us. They didn't love the culture, they loved their egos, they loved their bank accounts...these were s***bags without a soul and they hijacked our amazing and pure and simple lifestyle, crashed it and burned it. **** those people and **** everything they represent. I hold them all in the highest and most extreme contempt. I'm ****ing pissed off just typing this.......
Whew . . . this thing has turned into one big "T/F" envy thread lol It is so easy to piss on the shoes of those that got the sponsors, transitioned into the new arena, ended up with the big $$$ and the stress that all that **** brings. Have to ask one's self . . . "Self - if I was offered the same cool rig, a salary, bonus plans, ability to field more cars, to build more/better engines, could make it to more 'Big Shows' . . . would I have turned it down?" My honest answer is "No" - would probably jumped on it if it made my "career" in T/F any brighter. I never had the chance and never will - but I don't believe for one second that I'd have been too "pure" to bite the hook in front of me. It is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback . . . seems that is what a lot of us end up doing . . . cause we didn't get to play or play for long . . . With that said, would still love to see more "traditional" racing -- but I don't know if enough people would turn out, plunk down their money and make it a viable business for anybody to participate in. Would enough sponsors show up to help with parts costs? Even back in the day, the heavy-duty racers were there to win, to make money, to get sponsorships and to further their careers and/or businesses . . . it is just at a completely different scale today . . . one that a couple average guys cannot even dream to afford.
Not me dude. Back then, I was carrying around a bunch of name recognition because of magazine work I was doing. There were doors open for me, and I could have easily stepped into one of those operations. There are a ton of gray areas when considering what direction one should take in life, so I picked the easiest and most obvious to me. I refused to wear any kind of attire with a corporate logo on it...that's where I drew my line. If I couldn't go race in the same T **** and jeans I wore in my shop at home, I just was not going to race...period. Drag Racing is a hobby for some, a sport for others, but it's an absolute religion for me. I'd rather not do it at all than do it in a way I find vile and offensive.
Ok, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here on my part. How many here have driven a FED and done a really nice long smokey burnout in one. If you have, you know the feeling I'm talking about, especially when the fog bank comes across in front of you and she's zinging some rpm. I just want to continue that burnout as far as I can. But in our race car it upsets my crewchief. I can always look forward to a dreaded...talk in the trailer afterwards) LOL. I usually tell my engine builder, crewchief, tuner ect...(my brother Leon BTW) hey, you say it's a no load condition on the burnout. His reply is...don't get F'ing smart with me. I'm not building this car to snub NHRA, or snub bracket racing, or snub anyone, I am not mad at NHRA, the big show, I don't think the world stinks cause they don't get what I am wanting to do, I am not here to make enemies I am here to share my deal with all of you. Just like you share your projects with me. I honest to gosh want to put on my garb, climb in the car and smoke em as far as I can. I'm not looking for et's in the 6's, just a good clean safe smokey p*** with some noise. Tony you don't give me much credit saying it will shoot ducks at 300 ft or whatever. I have the best fuel system guys in the world to help me. Plus I know a little myself. And I don't need a blower and 2500 hp to do this either. If that's what it took, I couldn't afford it. I am going to have some fun with this deal no matter what everyone else thinks. Oh and Brian......carry on brother. Guys, I'm not trying to recruit anyone to my way, it doesn't matter to me, I love all kinds of cars and all kinds of racing. I simply want to smoke the tires and watch the flames dance at night. No special reason or agenda!! Lippy
What you didn't mention is that drag racing is and was a major part of the 'businesses' of many of the folks doing it. Winning brought PR, fame, name recognition and customers to your speed shop, machine shop or to buy your parts, etc.. There has been a major business/profit aspect to it since even the 50's . . . to you it wasn't, to many it was and is. Doesn't make em' bad people. If you consider your actions and motivations as "pure" -- cool with me, but I won't put the man down who captured the spot light, parlayed fame into a business, made money along the way, hired some employees and yes, . . . took the bait of the sponsors who enabled he/she to have more leverage to achieve their goals faster and just maybe more profitably. Success comes in many forms . . . at many prices . . . racing is the same, pick your flavor. And as always, because there was a LOT of money being spent by a lot of people, the average guy had/has a much better selection of parts, engine options, machine shop options etc -- which helps the hell out of the average guy today. My machine shop treats me with 100% respect and does fantastic work . . . yet I only build an engine every couple years --> the guys paying the bills and funding the operation build sets of top-end blown alcohol motors every year (sometimes 5 -6 for tractor pullers at a time). I benefit from the big money they spend to keep the machine shop rolling along, paying the wages of some very experienced guys. I get to run my little projects through the same machines that make $60,000 - $75,000 engines -- and boy do I like the quality of the work and the equipment it is done on. But - I'm not paying the real bills . . . the big boys - "gold chains" and all are and if it wasn't for them, the machine shop would probably not exist . . . or it would have a lot less experienced folks, running worn out machines that were long past their prime. The days of high-volume machine-shop work from the 'average guy' and his Detroit V8 -- where everybody was tearing their cars apart and hot-rodding them are long gone . . . either you evolved with the times, or your out of business. Racing has evolved . . . given the money it takes to create the HP levels and speeds we see today, the costs had to go up exponentially. Time for me to shut the hell up . . . I'm way OT on this thread
Gotta love it! He knows what he wants, doesn't care what anybody else thinks (at least not too much ), doesn't put down those who are different and is doing it for himself. That sums it up as best as anybody could in my book! Smoke em' . . . hope to see you run!
Brian, when we were at the hambdrags this summer is when I really got to thinking about this deal. When I heard your car take off and the smoke was rolling, my buddy Mac looked over at me and said whoa!! I was looking on going, GO,GO,GO! just like when you heard Tim fired his car. Lippy (lunch is over) in Ks.
Sorry Lippy...I didn't mean to diss you directly. It's just that unblown fuelers...especially in the days before clutch/fuel management systems, had a hard enough time keeping all the holes lit, even when fully hooked and loaded. I can't imagine having all eight pipes banging for long while in a basic freewheel mode...at least not without 16 to 1 compression! The unblown fuelers from the tire smoke days were typically very short stroke small blocks that hazed them a hundred feet or so, and then bit. The bigger injected motors were in Funny Cars which had weight and the wind to push and that's how they stayed loaded and lit. Unblown nitro is one of the most difficult things in all of drag racing to get a good clean handle on, but I'm sure that if you really want to make it work, you and your guys will figure out the way. Again...sorry man.
And they weren't pushed back. They were push-started, made a 180 back to the staging area, made another 180, lined up and pulled the trigger.
Tony, i don't profess to know it all, I know what you meant. A better way to word it would have been....hopefully Lippy it won't be shooting ducks at a thousand feet. If it does Tony, you'll never see me again. at least I'll be very sheepish acting. Lippy
It makes me laugh to listen to him talk about building " Cool Stuff " like was done 40 years ago Trailer, Tow Rig, and Pit Bike etc. Beaause thats the **** the BIG $ guys did back then .Most Average racers back then Drove their **** to the track and Prayed it didn't break so the could Drive it home or had a buddy with a rope.
In the early 1970s, sports car racers started informal vintage races, bringing obsolete racers out of the barns and backs of garages. Cars were driven to the track or maybe towed on an open trailer. It was great seeing the old legends out there. But as time progressed big money came in with big rigs and hospitality trailers. There's no prize money or sponsorship, but people are willing to pay beaucoup bucks to win a tropy in 8/10ths racing. I still love going to the vintage events, but even after we rediscovered our innocence, we soon lost it again. Face it. all racing is expensive and the bucks will find a way to rise to the top. "I remember when the tires were skinny and the drivers were fat."
Hey whitepunk,,,,,,,,,,I don't follow you on the "unblown" fuelers not smoking the tires, shooting ducks, dead cylinders and all that stuff. Ours didn't. And, when you say "back in the days" of............they all did that, I don't remember doing it. Our first fuel car was an unblown 6 carbed 352 Ford bored & stroked to 428 (before Ford did it) and we ran it on 80%. She smoke the hides to about the 1000 foot mark, got a bite and hauled ***. She never shot ducks, no dead cylinders...... In fact, if I wanted to, I could simply nail that ***** out of the hole and she would immediately scream to 7K rpm and smoke the hides until they melted. Never once popping. Hmmm, maybe that was before the more complicated fuel systems though. Ours was simple. 6 97's with no jets (pulled them out and threw them away), hand pump to keep fuel pressure and let her rip............
Soul, heart, the human element, thats whats missing. It's not just racing, it's life in general. Money and technology take the human element out of the picture and we have a computer program to handle the tasks we once handled on our own. Hand painting vs. vinyl decals are a perfect example. We circle track raced locally for years. I watched the cars evolve from stock bodied cars to unrecognizable aluminum and fibergl*** bodied cars. They all looked the same. They lacked or do lack character. The character that was created by the builder of the car, not what body he bought online. I believe that is what we are missing about old race cars, drag cars, cars in general. Life in general. Perhaps I'm wrong, but thats my feelings on the subject.
The Jalopy Journal
