Matt, I am out of ideas right now. I would still put the vacuum gauge on it. If it is pulling a steady 16" warm at idle I would think that nothing crazy is wrong at all. It would be nice to find out why your timing readings are so high though. Is your dampener degreed all the way up to 90 degrees or do you have timing tape on it? If it is timing tape, you know they have tape for different diameter balancers. Wrong tape on your balancer could do this exact thing. One more thing to check out.
I have the same thing with my 85 step side with a 350 in it. I took out the dist. with no vac adv and installed a $99 speedway dist with a vac adv. I can't even see the marks at idle they are so advanced and no ping. I'm just timing it by ear and it runs great.
I connected the timing light to every sparkplug wire one at a time and still couldn't see any marks. Shit if it runs good that's all I care. I'll just time it up till it starts pinging and then back it off a little like we did in the old days.
I had the same issue with a 283 in my T. I ended up degreeing the cam and had to retard the timing chain gear. It never really read right ( timing mark was way off the tab) but it started when you first hit the key and ran good. well as good as you would expect with 2;50 gears in the rearend.
Hey Matt, is this the same motor that was running too cool. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=603596 And the same motor that was blowing eye stinging smoke ? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=569687 And the same motor with the missing valve train parts? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=637642 And it stalls when in gear with the 200 that was a bad valve body component? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=643012 This might provide a few more clues if so. I'll have many More questions for you if in fact this is the same
This IS the same 350 that had to be redone thanks to someone installing the wrong rockers (non self-aligning). I tore it all the way down to a short block, then reassembled it carefully. It is NOT the same motor that was blowing massive plumes of white smoke everywhere. I sold that car real quick. The running cool issue has been solved, the stalling in gear issue also has been fixed (trans had an internal problem). Honestly, the motor runs tits and pulls the O/T Chevelle around no problem. I just did a compression test and got right around 150 psi average. That was with the motor not totally warmed up either. Also checked the vacuum. It pulls a solid 18" and up to 20-21" when I rev it up. No fluctuation to speak of. Thanks all.
What was the running cold issue. From what you are saying, mechanically there are zero issues. Theoretically having the timing so far advanced could be making up for a mechanical issue, but there is none. Theoretically a mechanically sound engine will not run with the timing so far advanced. That leaves an oddity in the standard theories, you will need to document your findings and contact the SAE so new research and development can be conducted on internal combustion engines, or more than likely something is amiss in the evaluation, measuring, the methods, or the equipment. In a previous post you stated you verified the marks and TDC with a properly done piston stop test that includes all plugs out. The resultant marks were 40-50 degrees apart. If there is timing tape, it should be exact. A slightly shorter stop will bring those marks closer, I'm assuming that there is a timing tape since you are getting a reading at 35* and 60* .a dial back to zero timing light can give you problems. Is that tape for the correct diameter balancer, and why is there a +/- 5 or 10 total degree result from the piston stop test ? The distributor was installed with # 1 at TDC (drivers side front on a Chevy) and both valves closed? How did you get this started, your pre first start after distributor reinstall timing setting should have been around 20* off from where it is now at and running well in this location. One would think something wrong at that point and never think to advance it 20*
I just have one little tid bit of really, not that helpful infomation. This is a good as thread as any to post it. Not that I am a computor geek but in my line of work I learned that to type the degree or " º " degree smybol. You hold down the Alt key and enter 0186 and the little º magically appears!!! Simple things amaze me.... just thougt I would share.
Does your timing chain set up use mulitiple keyways on the crank gear? Some sets have different locations for advancing or retarding the camshaft timing (my nightmare from buying racemotor from rookie builder).
You say TDC is correct piston up top and number one is good.Chevy is left side or right side.You could be one wrong cylinder.If this is right its the timing chain off location. Coming up on TDC the exhaust should just be closing.
Matt Are you reading off of a timming tape on your balancer or are you using one of them timming lights that reads out what you timming is? reason I am asking is that I see all kinds of oddball timming and it usually comes down to the timming light readout. Those are not all that accurate in my experience. If it lights and runs well, it is not pinging don't sweat it just drive it. If you really had 35 degrees of initial timming it would go Rump Rump Rump instead of whir when you hit the starter.
Don't have the answer for you. But I do think that the best clue lies some where in the fact that your numbers are almost EXACTLY twice what they should be. In my limited experience, most Vortec topped 350's run best at 15 to 18 degrees initial and 28 to 32 degrees total timing. Since you have checked the marks with a piston stop to verify the timing marks, used a second timing light to verify your tools, and the knowledge of the HAMB to verify that the engine won't actually run with the timing as described, then only one possible explanation remains....... Operater error.
Any chance your balancer has two timing grooves on it? (some balancers come this way to allow one balancer to be used with either the early style or the later style timing tab positions) If this is the case, maybe you focused on the correct groove when checking TDC (piston stop) but are focusing on the wrong groove when setting the timing. The old "If it runs good don't fix it" just might apply here.
TDC for number 1 is drivers side just checking.and firing order is right. Now if you can start it turn dist till it runs the best and back off little.Now take it for ride and see if it ok.Hang the light on wall for looks.
I've got a 350 in my roadster and I use a 6" dampner for tie rod clearence, when I timed it I did it with a vaccum gauge. Starts right up, does'nt ping, runs at 190 degrees, (temp) but when I put a timing light on it the mark is way off. Oh well, I've set the timing all my life on SBC"s by ear and throttle response, I've never had a problem, sometimes we tend to overthink the easy stuff. If you've done all the set up right, and it sounds as if you have, drive it, spend your time with something that does'nt work.
I don't think the timing actually is "way off" as your title suggests ... there is something "not quite right" about how you are reading it (in my opinion). "It runs great, starts great, and doesn't ping" suggests your timing is actually just fine ... you have two options here (again, just my opinion), either drive it as is or get someone else to go over the engine and verify TDC, timing chain installed correctly, timing gears manufactured correctly, timing tape in correct position, timing tape correct for the balancer being used, correct operation of timing light, setting timing off correct plug wire etc. Sounds to me like something simple is being overlooked or not done correctly. I also agree that a shorter piston stop would allow you to find (by splitting the difference) true TDC on the drive side front cylinder.
Yea I agree that the timing isn't 'way off.' The problem is that my timing lights won't accurately display what the actual timing is! I wouldn't doubt that its operator error, although I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I've checked everything that you guys and I have thought of. No, I do not have a timing tape on the balancer. Just the single plain TDC line. Which we've confirmed lines up accurately with the timing tab at 0 degrees at top dead center. How likely is it that two dial back timing lights be so far off, and yet identical in measurement? I've checked the firing order and am hooked onto the driver's side front cylinder. When I put the vacuum gauge on it, I adjusted the distributor for maximum vacuum, and it was already very close to where I had it currently (with a couple degrees). So for now I'm just leaving it alone. Like you say, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Though I would like to know why the timing lights aren't reading right.
Sounds like you might have camshaft timing off (one tooth off on chain or cam ground retarded), since you've done everything you can to double check the crank timing and it doesn't run right without being advanced a bunch. Larry T
I've been following this thread, and I'm as curious how this can happen. You've done everything correct as far as I can tell. The only thing I can see is if you somhow are connecting the timing light probe to #2 cylinder (which of course one ahead of #1) you might get this result??
It's very simple and easy to do if you are very used to fords and working on a Chevy. Seen it on here too many times to count but mostly the guy who does Chevy blindfolded is pulling his hair out with a Ford.
If both the lights you are using to check the timing are the dial-back type, try checking the timing using a regular timing light, someone you know (or local to you) must have one available to borrow I would think.
Matt everything points to the dialback style lights. Grab a tape and use the light straight up style light. Could be just some Wierd electrical oddity. Between your particular truck and the dialback.
Don't care for dial back lights which is why I originally asked if he had a timing tape or not. They are very seldom very accurate. If it starts well, runs well and isn't pinging under load it is timed fine. Too much time spent overthinking things.
"º" = brilliant! Matt, tear it apart, exploratory surgery, or drive it. If it dosent ping,and revs OK, and dosent blow up, ya gotta winner. There are so many smart Car Guys here. Tell your Wifes or/and girlfriends,ya need a special dinner and a case of whay ya like best.
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