@Six Ball yesh looks like 77-88 amc/ jeep has a 9 tooth gear with a 25.1 mm diameter compared to the six volt 29mm gear. If you could swap gears that would be a cheap starter quick as I see those jeep starters for like $100 new. I’ll take photos of the trans as I unearth it from the caked on oil
Just tagging guys that I see on Studebaker posts that may have something to contribute to the thread or might just enjoy seeing some Stude content. @DEEPNHOCK @Johnny Sparkle @dare-to-be-different @Paul @rustyironman Going to put some time into sifting through racing Studebakers .com this week. I’ve noticed it never comes up in my Google searches for info but people always reference it so maybe it’s just not an easy to search page. Time to go digging for info
Yeah I’m sifting, nothing super exciting so far. did find this page which seems to have a lot of tech info on it https://studebakersocal.com/RayLin_IndexPage.htm
When my son went to Texas for college in his '54 I made a list of parts for him because Studebakers had fallen out of the back side of most partrshouse catalogs. I was a parts guy then and had access to some old books. Now the Chevy and MOPARS that shared a lot electrical parts are gone too and much of that never made it to the computer systems. A lot is still out there if you can access it with good numbers. I kept a few old books. I'll try to find my son's list.
That’d be awesome. That’s why I’ve been so focused on measurements and tooth counts etc. a “Studebaker” gear may not exist but a 29mm 9 tooth gear with an ID of X absolutely does
Yah, sorry about forgetting to warn you about the intake. Not as heavy as an IH v8, or maybe a ford 427 one, but you ain't gonna juggle even one of those... . Sadly, the sbc adaptors are very expensive - like north of $550, iirc. Very nice, but... & all things considered, might still be the best( ) answer if you use 265/283-sized manifolds. Best would be a version of the D. Datson street-ram w/2 small 2bbls(= homemade). Most, if not all, aftermarket(old orig versions) manifolds(2x2 mostly, StuV & I think Offy, Weiand, & someone else? made most.) were made for the 232 heads = small ports. You can port the ends, but inside passageways are still small. Look good though. There is one that has proper size ports, open design - seems to work decent, not cheap. ;( . Also, if you take the pan off(future?) watch out for the die-cast filler piece at the front, it has a tendency to warp, strip pan-bolt threads, & crack(from overtightening). & had to helicoil mine, but the rest was ok enough to use. I think they are being repopped now, & I'd use them if I needed one. Cam gear will probably be fiber, but Al is available & sorta inexpensive - & worth it. Other speed/hi-po equipment is available new yet. Another guy that knows a fair amount about studes is partsdawg. Marcus...
@Zax correct! @nrgwizard yeah the adapters I see older adds for $400 for the chevys, Tyler has a mopar on his and it looked fantastic but from the reading I’ve done it sounds like unless you do the heads that a stock 4 barrel intake is going to give you about the same performance so outside of looks it’s not really worth it for me to pop for one. I have seen a great looking 2x2 in photos it’s good to know they were built with the smaller motor in mind. I wanted to pull the timing cover before I tried to spin it over but with having to pull more stuff off the front and the oil pan to do so I may just leave it alone for the moment. I don’t want to get to far involved just to take a peak but I also don’t want to ruin anything. From the looks of it I should be ok to stick a wrench on it and spin it around. I’ll want to pull the cover and take a look at the gears before I actually run it. I have been eye balling the aluminum gears. I’ve yet to find anyone selling new cams or even regrind. The racing Studebaker classifieds has zero posts in it? I think Studebaker international no longer offers a print catalog but the website does appear to have updated information. So maybe it’s a legit source for parts. I see rules for using the classifieds for Studebaker drivers club but can’t actually find the for sale forum itself. Most the links I find for parts sources are either dead or often un secure websites that look fresh out of 1997. Doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence handing over a credit card number in 2023. I do hear there’s a good stude group or two going on Facebook but I jumped ship on that years ago and I’m not going back. thanks Marcus and everyone else for all the little nook and cranny notes of stuff to look out for it’s hugely helpful.
Edmunds made intakes & valve covers for Studebakers. Offenhauser still makes valve covers and a valleyt cover I think. They don't make a manifold anymore but theirs wasn't great anyway. Early Caddy intakes can be easily adapted. A lot of aftermarket intakes are built for "high performance" which means a lot of wide open throttle high rpm operation. To get the most out of that you have to pass as much air through the engine as you can. That calls for big ports, big valves, high lift & long duration cams. Higher compression and ignition that can light the big charge in the chamber. A lot of that works against a daily driver. Those engines can load up, over heat, be a pain to drive and waste a lot of fuel. One of the older intakes with a pair of 2 barrels, a mild cam, and some careful head work will make driving it more enjoyable. You just have to think about what the engine will really be asked to do most of the time. A bad ass lopey snorter may be fun for an occasional 1/4 mile run or on cruse night but running errands can be a pain. The smaller runners create more velocity which adds to the bottom end where drivers work a lot. Just a thought. I know all won't agree after all its a hot rod.
Yeah much like most things offy I don’t think they’ve made a batch a very long time. Those covers ran $800 for a set before prices for everything went nuts. I have seen a few finned valley pans/covers. I think O’Brien truckers maybe makes one that’s in stock? There’s a two bolt finned cast aluminum valve cover that has a few different versions of Studebaker in the center I see pop up here and there. I think the casting floats around and they get done in small batches. The few I’ve seen look like a fairly rough cast. They do look neat though. hells gate hotrods offers header flanges, intake flanges and u fab log intakes for them as well. I can’t remember who else had a valley cover readily available new. I’m sure I’ll trip across it again sometime soon. Really I’d like a chrome one. Need to call the local platter and buy a lotto ticket lol
Guess I never shared this mock up rendering of dressing the motor. Thought it could be cool to do a rectangle of engine turned gold leaf and then letter bearcat on it to emulate the stock sticker. if my chrome budge actually existed I’d chrome the headers, stock valve covers, valley pan, breather, cap, and the fan. you know stuff that unbolts lol Ideally this will get a hot ignition, a new or rebuilt 4 barrel, headers, an aluminum timing gear and a cam.
For your list: Mike VV . Worth reading, listening to. @Mike VV Caddy intakes *can* be adapted, but you're going to have a hell of an offset for the very front & rear most port edges - like 3/16" each. Lotta grinding... Or section the manifold 3/8" across the center & rejoin. Hence, the D.Datson street-ram, could be easily tailored for what rpm you wanted to use it in & 2 - 2bbls(like, say, 2 of the stock ones) for better fuel distribution. You are correct, 1 4bbl, ~ 500 cfm is enough, edelbrock 500 has worked very well for many folks. You could use smaller, like the 390's, ~4xx's. Originally, they used wcfb's. There is an Al 4bbl manifold, which is a copy of the oem, & has the same flow limitations, esp in at least 1 runner. Lighter, nicer looking, more expensive, same essential performance as stock. Not sure on new cams, but regrinds in R-1, R-2, & slightly hotter are available from at least couple of hi-po stude dealers. R-1 & iirc, R-2 are good on the street, esp w/a little engine work. I trust these guys, have dealt w/them, they're good as can be. Higher compression really helps stude v8's, but regaining the Quench that the factory never put in is what helps the most. & the best thing is supercharging( ~ 6psi), works on decent stock engines, as the factory demonstrated so often. 2 or 4 bolt valve covers work on either late or early heads, just gotta have the stuff for them - which look do you prefer? & even though there's a fair # of head casting #'s, not much difference twixt them(I'm talking about the 224, 259, 289, 304 - not the 232 ->they'll bolt up, but small ports n valves) other than compression ratios. & that can be changed a couple ways. & the R-2 heads for a blower are actually truck heads w/1point lower compression. Forget about the super rare R-4 heads, MikeVV heads outflow them, iirc. & that is one hard problem w/any factory stude head - they literally will only flow so much w/o a blower, period. Also - *needed* is a *factory* manual. & please don't "build" them like chevy/ford/chrys. Stude actually designed & built it's own engines. They did have a lot of the "old ways" construction, it's just something that you have to know about, it works just fine, esp stock, or near stock. Mill looks good. You are going to be one happy man - esp w/the OD. I think you'll want to go to the International Stude Meet, in Dubuque Iowa June 25-29, this coming year, also the (ex-May now) June meet in South Bend(1st full weekend, on a Fri & Sat) is *so* worth your while, it's not funny. It may not happen in 2024 due to the timing of SDC-ISM, I'll check & let you know. You get to meet almost all of the big & good vendors personally, face-to-face time is almost unlimited, & they usually have merch/parts to sell. I gotta quit typing, my fingers hurt... . Marcus...
I’ll read that in a minute Marcus just came across https://www.studebaker-intl.com/catalog.html again. Studebaker international. I think they are in Hope Indiana and from what I can tell havnt printed a catalog since 2014 but have moved to using a third party host for the online sales? Secure ^ that’s a good sign and the page isn’t outdated But I clicked the shop and it showed not secure? Did. A quick google and they seem legit enough went back to try and figure out the search features and noticed once I started actually using the page the result pages are secure? and there’s the valley pan I couldn’t quite remember! their 2014 catalog is viewable on the website and as a pdf to print but at almost 400 pages I’ll save some trees. anyone used them before? The reviews for the business itself in person online seem favorable but it’s just vague enough wording that no forum posts are coming up chatting about them one way or another.
We took Jake's Conestoga to the international meet when it was in Sacramento in the early 2000s. It was fun and he was a hit with the old guys. He was in college. Met some great people and saw some great stuff. I got my '55 Speedster dash there. We were lucky because for several years Jake worked for John Erb summers. He wrote down the grind specs for his street supercharger cam. We went to the back door of Erson cams that was working out of the Mallory building in Carson City and handed them John's specks & a good used cam to grind. Mallory left and Erson was in Mound House for a while before they moved East. John was a treasure. I think valve covers for several makes could be adapted. Old Olds is close. The guy I bought my Edmunds covers from though they were Ford. I didn't tell him. They are not a big and the Offeys. You may be right about the valley cover coming from O'Brian, that may be where I got it. nrgwizard is right about the supercharges. A few pounds of pressure makes up for quite a bit of poor flow. It is another level but didn't we talk about that for the 153? He is right about Dick Datson too. That guy was a thinker and wrote down a lot of good information for Studenakers & AMCs. Good find Tim!
Man that’s a fantastic bit of info @nrgwizard ! I will absolutely stay tuned about those meet ups. It does feel like a motor that you just have to start introducing yourself to people. Have you got any names or links for the “high po stude dealers” I’m seeing mentions of cams and etc being available in conversation but I’ve yet to see a website, name or link etc. feel like I’m looking in the wrong places.
Hey, Tim; There has been a bit(lot) of consolidation in the Stude parts business, to some extent, that's good. Also some new guys coming in that don't see stock as the total answer. ... & some that're repopping stuff that has not been available for a long while - suppose prices have some relation... Too bad you're not closer, I'd offer you the temp use of a very large stack of D.D.'s mags/books. Granted it's rather outdated since it was started ~'70 in an effort to find substitution(s) that would keep studes on the roads, & some of the methods crude(but they worked). That doesn't mean that it's worthless info(although some of the then-solutions are just as hard to find today), he also looked to delve into the quality of Stude & the why of engineering(to base modifications on. If you don't know, when Stude was alive & advertised in the mags/etc, they had good press - when they went defunct in '64, it was dog-pile-denigrate as much as possible. Their engineering was not bad, nor cheaply executed.). He looked to adapt where necessary, both for improved performance &/or longevity &/or parts availability. He wasn't a restorer. It didn't always work, but usually interesting. When it did work, it was a basis for even-todays' mods. & the guys at RacingStudebakers are continuing that tradition. Sadly, the days of hi-quality at a reasonable price are gone. Although I do suppose price is rather relative to the destruction of the USD's purchasing power. Cost of labor &/or machineshop time is a lot higher now, so if you cannot diy, that's another level to overcome. It isn't just us. Marcus...
Makes enough since, I appreciate the offer if I was closer. If I’m ever close I’ll hit you up I’ve seen this page before which is not secure but their Instagram makes me believe they are probably legit. http://mystudebaker.com One of the perks of the websites being clunky and generally run by older guys is that I get the feeling I can just call them and order which makes me feel more comfortable a lot of the time. I get shit for it all the time at work where everyone does supply orders online and I’m still calling them right after they get back from lunch. But I kinda like that now they know who I am, and they generally give a hand with low stock items or let me in on a sale or discount I probably would not have noticed. I like the people connection so it seems like I should do alright at the stude world.
What Marcus says about Dick Datson is so true. He even got so much static from Studebaker purists that he moved over the AMC. I loaned several of his nooks to someone who didn't return then. A lot of the list I made for my son came from his writings. I am really enjoying the research you are doing and finding where these parts are now and who has them. One of those companies began form all of the parts left over at the South Bend plant when the Avanti guys took over. John Erb had acquired most of what Lionel Stone had. He even was at one time thinking if buying JE pistons. He said they already had the right initials. My son was considering buying John's business but that didn't work out with John's illness and timing. John's wife struggled with getting things back to people who sent parts for him to work on. He was far behind in the last years and his records were not complete. He was mostly involved with superchargers but was designing a new head and did cams and lots of performance work. I don't know what has become of it all now but I may see her next month. I'll ask. I wish my son had gotten it. He learned a lot from John over the years and he is the reason my son went into mechanical engineering and has more machine shop tools than we can get to. John wrote an engine book but I don't have one. He came to Carson City to talk United Engine (Silvolite) into making pistons for supercharged Studebakers and ended up being their head engineer (though he had no degree) and designed the Keith Black line of pistons. An amazing guy.
Yeah it’s a name I’ve read over and over the last five or six years. Real shame he’s gone. in non Studebaker model A news Colton - can’t remember he’s his hamb handle but he rarely posts- posted this top he did for his buddies sedan. really clever thought I’d share it and save it for later.
This is older but there are surely some good contacts. At least a place too spend an upcoming winter day. https://studebaker-info.org/rjvs.html
Looks like I have a new build thread to look though now. You get a red lighting bolt on your phone and next thing you know you are looking at a Stude engine sitting dangerously close to a Model A. Seems like the disease is spreading.
@Rynothealbino oddly enough the red and white Studebaker circle logo is about the inverse of a red lighting bolt @Six Ball I’ll give that a look. I’ve come across a few pages like that and spend the evening clicking the links trying to find ones that are still active. I’ll add it to this list. bought some of those rubber washers that are fused to a metal washer today to stick under the valve cover nuts to get this back together for now and then go back to scraping stuff off the trans. These valve covers were like glued to the heads. The covers don’t feel especially flat but all I see is old gaskets so maybe they had em cranked down good. noticed the intake gaskets are just metal shims? Maybe the cork weathered away? Maybe they are just metal? Who knows. Either way not sure if next week I’ll try to start pulling the 4 cylinder out or if I’ll wire my plug in for the welder. I do need to figure out a way to hold the motor up in the A frame for mock up. Maybe I’ll get a length of 4x4 and use my chop saw to make legs to sit under the factor motor mounts.
OEM intake gaskets are just embossed metal. Can be reused no problem if they're not bent(crease - sharp or otherwise) or rusted/corroded(no rot or thinned areas), clean them real good w/a wire brush, use silver paint(or copper) & install them 'stickey' . Or use new as you wish. I've done it both ways. OEM head gaskets are dbl-metal-shim w/asbestos or something similar sandwich. Can also reuse them, same deal as the intake gaskets. If I was building a new-everything mill, hi-po or not, I'd use new gaskets, but to keep one running, even mildly hopped-up, I'd consider reusing those gaskets if they were nice enough - simply because they can be. Marcus...
can’t find his handle over here with the Studebaker international valve covers and valley cover it looks like. Not sure if I got his H.A.M.B. handle correct
Do be careful on various Al parts, esp rocker covers. Most are good, & while Lionel Stone made(copied) a lot of things for the Stude community(much better than nothing/air-parts), but afaik he never compensated for Al-casting-shrinkage in his parts(good intentions, but fell down on execution. Too bad, actually). His rocker covers were a 2nd-gen copy, & that made them too small to fit correctly, even after much-carving/mutilation occurred. Friend that tried to use them after all the "fixing" just quit & they became wallhangers, if he didn't throw them away. ~$200 usd down the drain + machining costs. I do not know how to tell the difference, but the others are, last I heard, afaik, good to go. Marcus...
Again Marcus is right about Lionel Stone's AL pieces. The supercharger mount we got took a lot of tweaking. John Erb was trying to find a way to make the R3 heads fit right. I think that is partly what sent him into his own design. I wish I had those notes! Also if I'm thinking right sbc rocker cover gaskets fit, at least they fit the Offey covers.
The Jalopy Journal
