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Projects Timm builds a model A

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tim, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    I’ve probably got a couple sets around I’ll lay some on and see
     
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  2. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Messing around the basement today found this little tin badge we bought forever ago. IMG_0680.jpeg Might make a fun tag topper with the stude motor under the hood? Maybe. IMG_0690.jpeg last night my brain was telling me to find this book and this morning I pulled it off the shelf. IMG_0689.jpeg IMG_0681.jpeg IMG_0682.jpeg IMG_0683.jpeg stude powered hot rods within!
    I also took note of a few olds rocket powered cars as they aren’t all that much different when it comes to size and interference. IMG_0686.jpeg IMG_0685.jpeg the steering mast in this truck isn’t far off from what I’ve got planned. Threading the needle over the exhaust under the valve cover. Saw a lot of flathead cars with the steering box nearly touching the block between primary’s so I’m feeling good about the proximity of everything to each other. I figured it would be fine but it’s always nice to see a few examples that confirm.

    IMG_0687.jpeg and this early A with rocket has the motor positioned vertically fairly similar to where this stude should land.

    I’m trying to figure out some options for holding the mocked up motor in place. I’ve got a few ideas and my fingers crossed. I’ll have to put the front of the car up on blocks to get the hoist under it so I want to be able to take the engine off the hoist and sit the car back down. The trans I can probably hold with a well placed jack stand or even a ratchet strap so I’m not to concerned on that side past hoping it sneaks under the stock center cross member for now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2023
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  3. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,742

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Nice finds! They were out there. A kid who was a year behind me in high school bought a '60 Hawk his senior Year. I was in JC. 289 4 bbl, 4 speed, posi rear end, black, red interior, Stewart Warner gauges. ALL stock. We worked together in Montgomery Wards auto service for a year or so. I always teased him about his Strruglebuggy until the night we double dated in his car. I got to drive 1/2 if the time. :rolleyes: By the end of that nigh I was a Studebaker fan. That SOB was fast! I don't even remember who my date was!:(
    My son's Conestaga in it's hay day.
    1854184_l.jpg engine1.jpg
     
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  4. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Oddly enough the only Studebaker in the book had a very set back nailhead in it!
     
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  5. I missed the part where you decided to switch motors I guess? What happened?
     
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  6. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    @cactus1 I followed Joey home from Oklahoma going 75 mph up and down those hills with a bad cross wind and thought “I bet this would suck with a 100 ft pounds of torque”

    Also I got the stude motor and Sarah decided it should go in her car. So two strikes against me I’m trying to see it it even works.
     
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  7. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,742

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    There are definitely more Studebakers with other engines than other cars with Studebaker engines and it really doesn't make much sense.
     
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  8. Ah! Keep mamma happy! ‘Nuff said! ;)
     
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  9. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Quick morning update between chores IMG_0711.jpeg IMG_0712.jpeg sbc valve cover has a nearly identical foot print. Maybe trim off the eyelets but I see no reason the gaskets wouldn’t work. I was shocked how easy those covers went back on the 259. I think I’d have to glue the gasket to the valve cover to keep it in the right place while installing though. IMG_0713.jpeg Random photo of the intake gaskets as previously mentioned. IMG_0714.jpeg IMG_0715.jpeg The rubber, neoprene?, fused washers with a marked 5/16 ID fit perfect. I pushed and twisted them over the studs and then used the acorns
    To snug them down. The stock grommets are a hard plastic, are they part of bottoming then acorn when tightening them? Or does the cover tighten against anything at all behind the nuts? Seems like it would be easy to over tighten these and warp something if not. I just got these just on the right side of snug and called it good. I’ll probably buy the stock replacement grommets but for fifty cents a piece I figured these rubber/
    Metal washers would work to keep shit out. IMG_0716.jpeg IMG_0717.jpeg i dipped a finger into the oil, no sparkles or weirdness but a deeper swipe and I pulled out a battleship gray sludge. I’m assuming it’s just your standard motor oil sludge, I wiped it out a bit with my hand but I’ll clean it all the way before I put the intake back on.

    this also makes me feel better about having to pull the pan to inspect the timing gear as I’m
    Sure that pan needs cleaned out.
     
  10. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 26,897

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A segue...I'm a professional segue...er...at least you didn't have to change the title...

    One thing for sure...it'll be just as unique...onward we go...quite the journey you're sharing...The Artist and the Hotrod...damn good one at that...;)
     
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  11. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    I mean what else does a guy do when you’re almost ready to blow it apart and finish it? Blow it
    apart and start over lol geeesh.
     
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  12. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 3,011

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hey, Tim;
    FWIW;
    I've found for rocker-cover gaskets, valley cover, etc, I clean the cover, then used "the Right Stuff" as a glue(other stuff works too, but most eventually let go due to hot oil degrading the metal-to-gasket-bond) for the gaskets & to let it set, put the cover gasket-side down onto waxedpaper laid on a flat surface(maybe w/a weight on it). I've also used tRS as a whole gasket, using the waxedpaper deal. It did take awhile to set properly, but the wait was worth it. (I've since found that silicone-based sealants won't set against waxedpaper, don't remember what tRT is made of. I might've lightly oiled the waxedpaper 1st, can't remember. Been ~ 20yrs since I did it. Was an experiment, & it did work, Stuff helped dry-up engines' outsides). No glue on the head side. Don't really like the chez-whiz-can effect, but it did work well.
    Used it on other need-to-assemble-now parts, just used a very thin bead. I prefer a paper-thin coating of sealant on each side of a proper gasket. I also got away from the felt crank seal w/a neoprene seal kit for the die-cast crank/cam gear cover. Which works very well(slight mods needed), but neoprene doesn't like to sit for long w/o oil. So consider that.
    There are better things on the market now, but I haven't used many of them lately.
    Marcus...

    .
     
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  13. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Good info thanks
     
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  14. Primered Forever
    Joined: Jul 7, 2008
    Posts: 990

    Primered Forever
    Member
    from Joplin,MO

    Tim there’s a thread here called Fenderless Model A’s. Show us your A frame. There is a highboy coupe in England with a 259 in it. Maybe he can send you some install pics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2023
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  15. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    @Primered Forever I’ll have to go snoop for him. I’m sure you can scroll back and find a
    Photo but it’s just a stock frame with a tube trans mount/ wishbone mount added right now. Nothing fancy

    Edit lmao found the thread. Show us
    Your a frame is part of the title lol sorry my mistake
     
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  16. Primered Forever
    Joined: Jul 7, 2008
    Posts: 990

    Primered Forever
    Member
    from Joplin,MO

    Found it maybe he has build pics IMG_0839.png
     
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  17. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    I scrolled right past it lol I’ll go snoop around
     
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  18. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    @55zephyr care to share any stude into an A frame tips?
     
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  19. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    IMG_0756.jpeg Looks like we can add @sedan33 to the list of guys with Studebaker powered hotrods!
     
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  20. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    IMG_0770.jpeg

    Growing up everybody hit the dinosaurs/ archaeologist phase. Somehow I think this isn’t what I pictured when I thought about unearthing old stuff but it’s still pretty fun :)


    The shift towers were buried all the way to the top plate I had to find a photo of one to know what I was digging for lol
     
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  21. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,742

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    You are probably the first person to see that since they set it in at the factory. Others just saw where it was buried.
     
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  22. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Probably true!

    I’m peeling some paint off when I scrape the crap off but it’s still turquoise under it so it must not be a top layer lol.

    Considering popping it in neutral and rolling it over while the intake is off tomorrow when @porknbeaner is here. Figure with a wrench doing the turning it’s not really making the oil pump work and force sludge into places is it?

    im curious about that fiber timing gear but again probably ok for spinning one rotation? I just want to confirm it’s not stuck.

    been talking a little with @Primered Forever @Tuck and @flatout51 about making the frame sturdier and think I have a preliminary idea in mind

    stay tooned!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023
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  23. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,742

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    When we did my son's wagon I was shocked at how flimsy the frame is. Tweekier than a A. It gets stiffer as it all bolts together. Early unibody? I seriously think you will be fine with a crossmember mount for the trans and a gusset or two, a K- member at most.
     
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  24. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Right now I’m working up a plan to box the rails and the center cross member. Possibly making a trans mount similar to mill works av8 kit to put a flathead in an A and then mount the ladder bars to the bottom of the center cross member. Keep it all nice and simple.
     
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  25. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    IMG_0771.jpeg A few photos stollen from their website in case you aren’t familiar. Iron trap actually used this set up for the roadster pickup shop trick and it worked slick IMG_0772.jpeg the two plates you see in the parts pile in the first photo actually bolt to the bottom flange of the cross member front to back kinda boxing it/ stiffening it all up at the mount. I don’t think my trans mount will be this far forward but it’s just something to reference. IMG_0773.jpeg IMG_0774.jpeg This is something I hadn’t noticed they carry until tonight but have seen it done before. Right now I have a tube crossmember that dips pretty low to hold the trans and then has a ball mount. I’m back and forth on reworking keeping it as is or changing it, depends on where stuff lands in the mock up I suppose.

    it’s a little frustrating that I built the whole thing around a drive train it looks like I’m not going to use so it feels a little more “motor swap” sometimes but I think if my stubbornness sides with making it how it should be I’ll do ok.

    any of you guys used a bellhousing wishbone mount like that? I’m considering doing a bellhousing / mid mount just to tighten the chassis up and much as possible. Maybe if I built
    It like hurst motor mount typically looks I could put a wishbone mount right on the bottom.

    guess we’ll see. Hopefully over the next week I can make some progress and have a little less speculation.
     
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  26. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Actually looking at it the trans mount is pretty close to the bell housing. I believe some years they had a rubber pad that the back of the trans sat on with a separate cross member. Something to ponder I guess.

    anyhow I think I’ve got this thing clean enough to swing into the A. IMG_0779.jpeg IMG_0780.jpeg started to find some numbers IMG_0781.jpeg IMG_0782.jpeg IMG_0783.jpeg i found these photos in another hamb thread of what I believe is the same trans and over drive so I could figure out where to find numbers and what shape I was supposed to be chili out of this oil clay. I can’t even see the r-10 numbers yet but I can feel where they are when I scrape at it. I think it’s gonna take a pick to really get in there. IMG_0786.jpeg IMG_0785.jpeg IMG_0784.jpeg Either way figured I’d add them here for reference
     
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  27. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Well @porknbeaner came by yesterday. He’s thinking the motors already been gone through which is awesome and would explain the filthy trans but clean engine.

    this morning I pulled the plugs and grabbed the crank pulley and spun it over. That massive bolt is far beyond any wrench I’ve got on hand lol.

    with the intake and valley off I could see the cam gear in the back spinning and then the lifters and push rods did their dance. I could see a few lifters get a little spin.

    only had one tough spin in turning it I assume that’s the compression cycle because after it was easy peasy.

    put the cover and intake back on, plugs back in and plug wires, which might not even be to the right plugs, back together. Moved it all and swept up the floor.

    only noise I really heard sounded like some
    Grit and dirt in the clutch area. Watching the video back I do maybe hear a little whirl noise but that could be the gear drive up front. The video sounds way louder than it did in person so I’d believe I didn’t even hear it as I was doing it. Glad I brought a camera stand home from work it’s been handy in the shop so far.

    next step it airing up the tires, marking seat placement and removing the floor and seats. Then the hood and grill comes out and I’ll start getting into removing the motor and trans. I’m going to block the rear wheels on both sides and note the angle of the torque tube and u joint height from the ground for reference before it comes all apart.

    think I need to remove the oil filter off the firewall as well.

    starting to get close to seeing if this really fits how I think it will.
     
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  28. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    IMG_0793.jpeg Needs photos right? Didn’t take anything worth looking at but here’s a photo of what I think the clutch linkage should look like. Looks like the pedal pivot just slips over the nub on the bellhousing and cotter pins together?
    IMG_0794.jpeg
    and this is a T-86 going into an m5 truck but shows the cushioned support I was mentioning earlier. I believe later ones didn’t have this cross member and he noted it’s installed flip flopped because the notch is for exhaust clearance and should be on the other side. You can also see how far forward the trans mount is.
     
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  29. with the plugs out when you were rolling the motor you may have been feeling when the crank was at *BTC. There is a point on any motor when the crank its a hard spot in the transition. I have actually become familiar with a couple of diesel motors (large cats) that stopped on the sweet spot and the starter would not turn it.

    *There is a proper term for this but I don't know what it is. Someone here probably knows it. LOL
     
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  30. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 19,559

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    That makes since, it caught me a little off guard but I’ve noticed it on other motors as well.
     
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