Trying to find a balance between measuring 50 times and cutting once, and cut it out of the way and fix it later getting this motor in. the space is looking good for it landing where I had it mocked up but the path to get there is anything but clear. I had to cut a good chunk out of the flange on the back side of the cross member which I had planned to do even with the other motor. And now the distributor is hitting the firewall. The stock dent is actually deep enough at the bottom where it will sit but with it shallower towards the top the engine won’t slip into place. I’ve got the over drive resting on the tube cross member for mock and looks good. The stock trans mount is looking like it’s to far forward to work as it’s to close to the wishbone to put a crossmember under it. I’m considering running the stock front mounts, making some mid mounts and then someone m, @six ball ? Mentioned making a trans mount that bolts to the back of the trans with the bolts that hold the over drive to the trans. or I think there may be a flat with holes need the rear of the trans. I think if I had mid engine mounts and a tail shaft mount it should be more supported than originally with just the bell housing mount up front If I do that I think my existing crossmember could work with some tweaks. I’m hoping to work the firewall so that at a glance it looks stock and you don’t realize that I have widened the stock dip and moved some things around.
Also think the stock motor mounts may land on my steering box so I found this link talking about the hurst mount for stude/ caddy https://studebaker-info.org/Tech/Hurst/Hurstmounts.html I can’t even read the photos of the instruction pages but here’s what the mounts look like and the part numbers from what I can make of it they possibly threw bolt the stock mounts and have the leg go forward instead of a mount out to the side? Could make a 32 ford type pad on the back of the front cross member and use something like that? edit. Seeing the stude mount is the same as the early caddies I searched that and found these for sale https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ac-into-1949-53-ford-and-mercury-nos.1016079/ which have a readable instruction sheet. Looks like I had the right idea
I think it’s to far forward @Six Ball that bell housing mount is almost a foot forward of the tube. I have a few different options in mind but really I need to get the motor in before any of it can be looked at. Mocking it up on the floor I could account for the firewall- as it turns out losely- and forward. What I couldn’t 100% account for is where the existing trans mount and the stock cross members are. I’ve got a good feeling it will let me put the motor where I want it to go and work for at least mocking up but until that sucker goes back another inch or so and down at least three inches there’s just no telling. I’m going to “window” the firewall tomorrow morning and swoop it in there again and I’ll try to take pictures even if it doesn’t work just so you can see. I’ve had pretty filthy hands so I haven’t takin photos the last few times I’ve been out for a mental picture the yoke looks like it going to land fully behind the stock A center cross member. which may nix my idea of mounting the ladder bars to the cross member. I think the idea is to have the pivoting end be as close to the forward u joint as possible. Don’t think I’ve seen them mounted forward of them before. again, gotta get it in there first and then start brain storming but I’ve got some fun stuff planned that I’m excited to get into once I’m past this stage
From my understanding, a "rule of thumb" with the ladder bars is to make them as long as possible and point them directly at the centerline of the crankshaft. Others with more experience can chime in here, but that's the logic I used on my T build, even though they aren't very long due to packaging constraints.
@Tim_with_a_T From what I've been taught and researched. Ideal length is pivot at the trans u joint and the angle should converge at the center of the front axle. Of course as you say the packaging of all this can make it difficult. @Tim this is going to be very cool with the stude motor!
I thought it was going to be cool with the little Chevy 4 like I thought yours was going to be cool with the Dodge 6 but things don't always go my way with other people's cars. You both made cool second choices.
It’s almost in there guys. Had in and out of the car 6 times this week so far at minimum. It’s always “man it needs another 1/4” inch the. It’ll clear…. Til it hits the next 1/4” thing” back and forth back and forth. looking favorable. Gonna mark my lines tonight and cut in the morning. Soon as it’s actually in there I’ll update with photos etc
The 4 banger literally just went right in lol if I had a whole day I could get a lot more done but I think having an hour here or there is beneficial because it gives me some time to stew on it a little bit.
In the back of my mind is, if the Chevy 4 disappoints there is a 283 under the bench that will bolt right up in its place. 283 my favorite SBC.
Yeah I like the one in my 46 well enough. so, I cut a little more out of the front cross member and put the motor in and out of the car 2 or 3 times this morning and got pretty dang close! The solenoid for the over drive is hitting the trans cross member so I’m going g to have to cut a chunk out. At this point I think the cross member will get re created so as long as it will hold everything in place enough to move the car and measure I don’t car if it’s not road worthy. anyhow here’s some photos the offending solenoid to tube problem. It’s preventing the trans from both moving more to center and from moving backward. I need to d a little of both. Might grab some floor boards but I’m thinking that’s a flat floor. here you can see how I laced the column under the valve cover as I’ve and between the exhaust I may end up setting the motor like a 1/8” to the passenger side for clearance. I’d rather it center but worse case an 1/8 is pretty negligible. Either way this IS NOT the final resting spot just very close motor mounts aren’t really that far from what I had. I’m going to make some bolt on stands to hold it in place for the time being once it’s in place. Til real mounts get made. fan clearance even at this point is more than my 46 has had to throw the rad and grill on just to see. and back out it comes. The goal is getting it in place and stable so I can make mounts and then I’ll go in and clean it all up.
Man that is tight in spots. Well done! It didn't sit in the center when it was in the Studebaker. US ones sat to the right while right hand drive ones sat to the left and it was more that 1/8".
Yeah it’s a dance to get it in there for sure. Another person helping or one of those adjustable load leveler things for the hoist would make it pretty easy. or maybe not putting the old motor and another chassis right next to it would have helped… oh well I’m getting my steps in I guess. That’s a thing people do right? anyhow gonna measure and take a chunk out of the crossmember hopefully Tuesday morning. Garage needs a quick pause and deep clean. I can’t keep working through it if it’s gonna take this long lol. think I’ve got a line on or source for the water pump, water pump pulley, distributor, and starter. Feeling good
I think you are moving along at a good rate. My shop mess is slowing me down again and the good open door weather is gone. Just need to throw a bunch of it out in the snow.
Hey, Timm; Looks like you've got room for mid-mounts at the bellhousing. Might make some things easier. I also think I'd get a little more clearance for the steering shaft housing. Marcus...
@nrgwizard yeah it needs to wiggle around a little more. It’s getting closer though. and yeah I was just thinking about the mid mounts trying to see if they mounted more to top than the bottom. Seems the starter would be in the way of a more bottom orientation. I’ll have to dig some more and see if I can find a photo of some installed.
If I can make a suggestion... I'd raise the engine a little. If you raised it till the bellhousing is just under the lip of the firewall. That should clear the trans crossmember and make exhaust WAY easier.
Again just the 9th mock up. exhaust has miles of room, it’s easier to see in person than in photos. And the photo of the solenoid hitting the tube is with the trans tail far to the passenger side it has much more interference than I looks. Once the trans is centered I can raise it a couple inches from where it is. Again one of those it fits in that space there’s just stuff in the path. nothing I havnt got a plan for just figured you guys would like an update. This again is not the final resting place just showing that it does actually clear the radiator etc now
Hey, Timm; I could sketch this out in ~ 3-.5 min, but no pics-posting for me, so wordy it is... : While *I'm* not installing the Stude(yah - big revelation, eh? ), I was thinking - from what I could see in the pics - that I'd make a set of mid-mounts that catch the top 3 bolts on each side of the bellhousing, not using the top center one. & it'd look & act, like the Hurst-style front mounts. (Those worked well, nothing wrong w/them, solved a few problems, although they could have positioning/accessory-component clearance-issues.) Most of them I've seen, use the side bolts, drop straight down onto rubber mounts, onto a crossmember - at least oem. This gave ok side-room, as stock oem mounts were used, but also took up under-frame-room for those mounts-n-(thin-channel-)crossmember. (For some reason, over the decades, I've always preferred using the lower bolts, as it *seems* to me that that is stronger & more tidy, but that is imagination I'm guessing - Idk why.) What I was thinking, was a vertical plate at the bellhousing stretching out horizontally into the frame C-channel, using a set of the Stude front motormount biskits setup similar to the front motormounts for cushioning(think front-motor-plate style, just smaller). I rather like the Stude front engine mounts instead of the ford-style; as they're simpler, smaller, thinner, neater, bonded-rubber w/threaded ends top-n-bottom. But the ford-style would work well there too. & I'm sure that if one is careful, one could cutout an area in the middle of each mid-mount, both for lightness, & esp for clearance/access for the clutch arm, etc. Only thing I'd consider further, would be the resultant 4-point mounting/vibration/absorption aspect of things; for some reason, most of the engine mount-sytems are 3-point. This didn't cause any issues for the Olds-in-the-Deuce I had, but sophisticated - it wasn't. I'd also use a method(a rod or bracket-triangulation) at the bellhousing mounts to control forward/aft movement of the mill/trans. Might not be needed, but it sure couldn't hurt, & would stop a few potential problems. What is the steering box you're using? I suppose I should re-read all the thread again. When I built my Deuce eons ago(mid 70's), I found out that ford used 2 different steering boxes on the 50's pu's. (Who knew??? ). Since it had an early Olds v8, setback ~8"(both rear exh ports/pipes went thru the front cowl frame/mounts, so body got notched there), both the shaft & box placement got interesting. What I finally ended up using, was a box from a later(iirc) 50's ford pu, as that had the shaft under the sector, as opposed to the shaft over the sector. A little bit of elongating & redrilling the mounting holes, rotating the box/shaft, & I had a decent fit. Fortunately, the old guy at a junkyard was amused at what I was doing, & would work w/me to find/parts that'd work for me, returning/trading-back what I bought. Imagineering was useful back then, as I loved junkyarding in the old stuff. Almost totally gone now, so it's a lot harder to imagineer things w/o seeing the actual object of ones' desire... ;( . Marcus...
Hey Marcus, I think I’m “seeing” what you’re saying. My ideas pretty in line with that. Steering box is a 37-48 cross steer ford The link controlling front and back movement is called a chatter rod. You typically see it chatter the clutch in reverse on old fords if it moves. I was planing some for the 4 banger probably throw some on this as well. May as well while I’m there. Realistically you could put a threaded hole in the motor plate/ mid mount and run them off that
Yes. Mounted to the frame & mid-mount. My old Deuce used split bones in front, no wishbone. Stude uses(for the Lark anyways) a simple 1-point under-bellhousing(& under frame) mount & simple(but tight to the block) front-side motor mounts(kinda helps minimizes rocking), but I'm guessing that is in the way of your wishbone mount. Might be able to run a rod or two from the w-b-ball mount area to the bottom of the bellhousing instead? I'm also thinking you may be able to fab-up a mech clutch linkage, maybe combining ford n stude parts. Looks to be enough room. At least the 4-piont mounts will help minimize rocking motion(s), help w/mech clutch movements too, if you go that route. If you don't get decent clearance(at least ~ 1") 'twixt the shaft-housing & exh manifold, except for motor-movement(s) so it won't hit, I would look to lightly port the exhaust manifolds(since you're in there anyways. HA!, may as well smooth-out the outsides too. Since you're there anyways... ), have the insides & outsides coated w/a heat-retaining compound, & also use a thin heat-shield on shaft-housing(there are a couple versions around - incl new-tech, that'd work well). I realize there're no bearings at that point, but still... Looks like you're getting there n doing well. . Marcus... P.S.: Let me know if you can't find some stude hardware. I'd have to digging deep, but probably have a 6v v8 starter. If not, I do know people that may. FWIW.
The stock Stude front mounts were known to pull part even when new. It was common to limit the upward movement under torque on the left front. No problem after that and a good choice if you can find them.
@nrgwizard i think I’ve found a water pump pulley and distributor bits. Looks like the mini starter guy I posted earlier is legit so that’s an option for a starter. Though a black painted stock one sure would vanishes from view easier. if you happen to be digging and find a six volt v8 manual trans starter drop me a private message @Six Ball im going to drive over to RJays and grab two sets of motor mount cushion sets they carry the good ones. Then it’ll have a puck at each corner of the trans. I’m thinking the rearward spot for the trans mount may work out. I had considered making a th350 rubber mount work because it’s narrower but with how fat the end of the trans is I don’t know that it really matters how wide the rubber is. I’m thinking of this in regards to the new cross member we will be making.
Couple scribbled on pictures so you all see where stuff is sitting in the photos ^red is the rubber trans mount in the bellhousing. Green is the rearward option for a trans mount and kinda were the rubber would land. You can see how the th350 type rubber with the small foot print may seem like a better option. ^red and green from the other side in the car with kinda sorta where the wishbone and crossmember tube is landing and last for sake of mid mount conversation where the bottom of the frame rails are in comparison to the bellhousing.
Hey, SB; I did forget about that, thanks for the reminder. That limit-strap can & should be be done right away, & could look really nice, w/some planning. Marcus...
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