Projects Timm builds a model A

@Six Ball yeah among other things the hood should end up being stock on both sides.

 

Man Timm this is awesome stuff. Real hot rod stuff!

 

Thanks Nate I’m tryin lol

 

This morning I was doing a little brain storming on how/ where to fit a charging system. With the motor scooted over to center and the way this engine will likely be dressed I think I might run the factory dual exhaust manifolds. The passenger side has the generator mount but it will in no way clear the hood side in any way.

its to long to clear sitting more inward so I went online and found the shorty powergen is like 5.5” long. So I decided to go mock up an idea with an extra 3 wire gm alternator as that’s roughly the same size. Fits pretty good basically on top of the intake. Might have to swing it out of the way to change a valve cover but even if you had to completely remove it that’s not that big of deal. Vs our other placement options.

now on the other side of the breather stand my dodge and other brand oil filter I had on the firewall move to stock stude placement. Can’t see the alternator at all!

it was going to be crowded with it mounted to the firewall with the v8 anyways, and after seeing how dang hot my coil gets on the 46 I’d rather have the cowl not under my dash on the A so I’ll move it to where the oil filter was hanging. Should look tidy and fit everything under the hood with room to breath seriously perfect size.

im thinking I’ll run an as cast one wire alternator. The finish should blend right in and hide in plane sight. If it really bothers me I’ll pay four times as much for the power gen and it should fit the same space. I also like the idea of being to find a one wire alternator on the road easily enough if I had to. Another shot because why not

 

I run a Chrysler single pole alternator. 1960 version. Although they are quite big around they are very short in length and have an internal fan. Still very period correct.

 

@dumprat those are the ones with the fins correct? How early where they available do you think?

 

@Tim I'm told the first year was 1960. It might be 59 though. They have radial sort of ridges and cute little voltage regulator. Ya can just see it peaking out from under my hood.

 

One thing I do not like about my Hemi is the GM style alternator. Yeah its polished, fits and works but I sure like the Mopar finned alternator

 

That’s the ones I pictured. Wonder how easy they are to find at a Napa or similar? I’ll have to
Go take a look

 

I got mine at the local parts store. It was less than a Chevy 1 wire. I had to get the regulator off Rock.

 

Yup looks like Napa has several options for around $80 I’ve got mixed feeling about externally regulated alternators.

had one go out and wreek havoc and then after I fixed it all the brand new regulator right out of the box was trash and undid all my work.

suppose a new internally regulated type has the same chance of failing though

 

Don't know how offensive it would be but there is a small Toyota alternator that we ran on my son's Stude. I think it is from early '80s. I want to run a generator in my roadster but the GM ones are as big as the 153. Maybe I'll have an old 6v rebuilt to 12v. Maybe just run 6v.

 

@Tim the first one of these alternators I ran had a loose wire that the internal fan snipped off as soon as I turned the engine over. It fried the regulator. Rock auto sells an updated crucut board regulator for under $20 that is visually identical to the old ones.

 

Hmm noted on the alternators. I’ll chew on that.

Today I’m measuring things more and looking at steering. My thought is tilt the box so the pitman comes up and the column comes down. The end up the pitman could stand to be higher so this actually would improve some geometry.

then cut the steering shaft and mast, add a bushing and a steering joint, and probably a support close to the fire wall. Take a no more than 35 deg bend as recommended by joint. manufacturers and run it up to the wheel which would also have a bushing in the end of the column stub and a support just like any other column going to like a Vega box or similar


see any reason that wouldn’t work?

option B is an F1 box and go side steer but I havnt got any of that stuff so I’m seeing what it would take to make this work. Not even sure if the f1 would give me any more room in the trouble areas. what 35 deg actually looks like

 

I'm sure you know, but if not; for making sidesteer stuff work when you don't have any of that stuff; there is a tierod end that has the additional proper tapered hole in it already, for another tierod end to be used there as the attachment point for the crosssteer rod, instead of the usual one on the rh spindle arm. Might there be barely enough room to mount the box sideways & low for crosssteer 'twixt the crossmember & motormount? Guessing that area is quite tight, might have to run the shaft thru a hole in the frame motormount?

The old finned chrys alts looked *really* good, esp polished, but were limited A output. Depends on how much juice you need. Another actual-period alt would be the ~63 +/- Stude alt, again, output limited.
Marcus...

 

How much could you drop the steering wheel end and still be comfortable? It would at least reduce the angle in the joint. If only we were street rodders it would be so much easier. Tilt wheel with rack & pinion .......but then you's have to find room for the AC.

 

@nrgwizard yeah Tom and Diana branch have both of there stude powered 32’s set up with ford cross steer boxes on there sides for side steer. I took a ton of photos of Tom’s for a different project I’m messing with. I don’t think I’d be gaining anything by doing that because the bracket to make that work is sizable. If I had mounted it back towards the firewall to resolve my column issues I would be getting really close to the starter and eating exhaust room.

@Six Ball i could drop it a little but not enough to make any different. I loosened stuff up this morning and for the column to clear everything with the motor centered the wheel would have to drop nearly ten inches. I’d be steering with my toes lol.

I do have some room to tilt the column and reduce the angle while using the current column support. The 35 shown isn’t what I think it needs I just put it there because it’s a good visual of the “most” I can get away with

im pretty torn about it but I may grab an f1 and column from a buddy who’s always got that stuff around and mock it up

 

Looking at these photos I don’t know than an f1 really gives me any more room than I have now.
I think the f column would land were my angle guide is. Maybe it’s enough between ? I’ll have to mess with it

I can move the engine up around an inch which held but I don’t know if it’s really enough to make a difference

 

Actually looks like that box on the yellow car is f-100 not f-1 per the photo below. F-1 should give quite a bit more room over the f-100

 

The F-1 looks good. How does it compare to yours?

 

I had to use the F-1 type box when I built my setback Olds engine'd Deuce. Only sorta barely fit then, & I had to rotate the column down to boot, just to get that.

What I was thinking of for a mount, was like the guys used to do with old acvw bus box(might work, but isn't designed for the weight here, = bad choice this time) - box's pitman-shaft turned smooth & clamped in a split hollowed-out piece of steel. Just turned sideways, so the shaft is pointing down instead of thru the rails. & if you do that, I think the f-100 type would work the best for giving some clearance but hugging the inside of the rail, to the point of possible notching the rail(idk)? So I suppose, maybe the large part of the box could tuck into the rails, then the F-1 might be the answer. Tough w/o 1 of each for a "try-on". The mount could go in the rails, below the rails, or a mix of both. I'd bolt the mount thru the outside rail & thru the top &/or bottom edge. Should be sturdy, if not heavy.
Marcus...

 

Alright here come a lot of photos.

first alternator photos from Tyler then steering photos roughly f-1 box location basically blocks the motor in the same spot just slightly lower. the motor needs to come over right at 1.5 inches which is both the width of the column and the width of a paper towel tube if you ever need an easy mock up column or header primary lol

I don’t think f-1 would work unless I moved the box very far back which would give a bizarre steer column angle. i looked threw my stash of photos and online at 28-9 A’s with olds, caddies, studes and other wide v8’s trying to find how they cleared steering and found that from guys in the 50’s to high end traditional hotrod shops today are just mounting the motor about 4” higher than I have it mocked up.

if it’s a 90 deg v8 like a sbc it fits exactly where I have my stude height wise. But that motor is inches narrower. As fun as this puzzle has been it has REALLY made me appreciate how the chevy is packaged from the physical size to the way the water pump and front drive is situated.

some lose photoshop mockups of it raised. 4” is what clears my steering as is and that puts it basically the same as the roadster with the Gotha dressed olds. Top of the plug wires in the distributor just barely shy of the firewall flange.

I really like how it looks in the car but it’s for certain one of those “oh, that’s why they always have it done like that” moments. It would mean cutting the center cross member out of the frame to get the trans up higher which is fine because I’m going to be adding other cross members for the trans and ladder bars but it does mean I can’t mock anything up until I brace the frame enough to feel ok chopping a section out.

it also means I won’t have a completely flat floor.

But it would give me enough room for a fan with a diameter of like 20 plus inches

well that’s this mornings thoughts.

 

Oh and check out Marty’s roadster pickup thread if you haven’t already

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...strip-b-sr-build-marty-strode.1177811/page-33

he ended up cutting his upper firewall to make a tunnel for removing the mag out of his chevy and then recreated the bead in a new panel that’s slightly wider than the new tunnel and bolted it right over the tunnel. Genius. Paint it all the same color and 99% of people won’t even notice it’s been changed

 

Marty’s thread is pretty deep so I went hunting for the photos to share and save ya some time.

 

You're thinking about all the right stuff. Fan clearance, exhaust clearance, steering clearance, etc. What you're proposing to do, even when listing out options, all sounds reasonable. I think at the end of the day it depends on what you have laying around and how much time you wanna spend gluing everything together. I had to rework quite a few things quite a few times on the bucket, I think that's fairly normal, so don't be afraid to make "mistakes". If it's just tacked together, it's not too bad to rework.

The thing I didn't initially consider a lot of the time was serviceability, but I have put that as a #2 priority on the list, right behind safety. I only say that now because I spent the summer rolling around on an exposed aggregate driveway rebuilding the entire chassis on my daily.... I had a few choice words on some of the assembly choices made by GM.... Like having to drop the fuel tank to remove a rear sway bar end link bolt, having to bend inner fender sheet metal out of the way to be able to access steering box bolts, in order to avoid removing the inner fender, the list goes on... We can do better than that.

 

Ahhh...
Compromise. Is everything, literally; Life. Good or bad, idk. How's that saying go? "You pays your money, takes your chances, gets what you get". ??? .
Marcus...

& if you want to keep the mill very low in the chassis, as it is now: there is one more way. Those compromises again... . You could consider doing the steering layout like Stude did it, using a bellcrank. & they ran the draglink inside the frame. The box did have a rather large flange though. Whether you use the box in the old-ford style thru the frame & run a draglink outside the frame to the pivot arm then crosssteer; or; turn the box so the pitman arm is inside the frame, run a draglink to a pivot then crosssteer; would depend where stuff could go & how much you want to brace, + you'd need a ujoint to get the steering wheel better positioned(I think) for more driver comfort. Yup, all compromise... Sounds like a load of work for monkey-shines/motion, but it could solve a few problems too, esp in terms of steering shafts + ujoints + bracing for those. Idk, just a comment/thought.

 

Put the generator/alternator on the driver side. The supercharger goes on the passenger side.

 

@Tim_with_a_T yeah every nut on the back side of anything will be welded on I made a lot of stuff with over kill thickness material so I could tap the holes and I’m very conscious of serviceability. I was actually hesitant to put the alternator on top center because of the chance that I’d have to pull it off to pull a valve cover. But I’m realizing if I raise the engine I can probably stick a matte black tiny Denso alternator down low on the passenger side and no one will ever notice it’s there.



though @Six Ball brings up a good point about super chargers. I think it cleared in the 4 banger set up but it for sure would put a blister in some part of the hood on the v8 set up.

But unless someone wants to donate to the cause it’ll be n/a for the foreseeable future. I’ll pay shipping though haha.


my current service battle is weather I can make myself cut the upper firewall or know that if the distributor needs to come out it’s all gonna have to come out. It looks like at the “new” height I’d have room to get the plug wires off and the cap off but that’s probably not enough room to pull the distributor up, tilt and remove.

maybe I make a trap door and it just goes up and out behind the dash lol now that sounds like a head ache

 

Man that's a lot of pins you're juggling right now.

I like the raised motor. I'd I understood you right that would allow you to not need a joint in the steering shaft right?

That notch and beauty panel for the dizzy you shared is pretty slick. Would mean a bit of work to do it right but it looks good and retains serviceability. Trap door and pulling it from the inside is a novel idea but would be a total shit show in practice IMO.

 

Yeah I’d sooner pull the grill and bump the motor forward than pull it out behind the dash.

and yeah motor up lets me keep the steering as is.