Projects Tim's (aka anothercarguy) 1938 Ford Club Cabriolet Build Thread

I have a question for anyone familiar with cabriolets...at the top of the quarter panel at the B-pillar there is a heavy forged or cast U-shaped bracket that the top irons fit into when the top is up...see photo:

I see this as a future rattle point of the convertible top when it's up. Is there supposed to be something in between the bracket and the top irons (it seems like a pretty tight space)? Any suggestions or experience on this? Thanks.

 

No experience here, but what about a strip of the cloth portion of a Velcro strip glued into the U area? Or would that be too tight?

 

Nice modification Tim. I decided to let the upholstery guy handle that piece. I actually thought that they were made of a cardboard. My CS has the same type of joint shown in post 421 . It will be interesting to see if it rattles. I think with paint on the irons there will not be much slop there.

 

Delete repeated post

 

Velcro might work...but it may be a bit tight. I'll need to experiment a bit.

I decided to let the upholstery guy handle that piece too...the problem is I'm the upholstery guy as well.... I'm pretty sure mine will rattle...as I was banging on the side tin to see if I had managed to free it from all rattle points, it was quiet, but the top irons were rattling in the U-bracket. Maybe the paint will tighten the gap to begin with, but I'm thinking it would only be a matter of time before the paint wears off.

 

My experience with using Velcro in that type of application is that it wears quickly with any rubbing. I don't think it will be robust enough, but that's just my thought.

 

I’ve bought some industrial strength Velcro from McMaster Carr before that I think would hold up, but it might be too thick to work for this application.

 

Add a blower and quick change, between that the air you won't hear a dump truck driving through a nitroglycerin plant!

 

Thanks for the input...that's been my experience as well...and I believe the area is too tight for Velcro (thanks for the suggestion @ronzmtrwrx ). I'm currently thinking maybe a strip of leather as a "gasket/bumper".

Or, I could take BB's approach lol...hotrods are supposed to be loud right?!

I've managed to get a few more small items done on the car. I've now made the second tin for the rear seat area and using my previously shown homemade "flexible flanging tool" to work my way around the access hole, I slowly worked the flange into the panel. The flange added a great deal of rigidity to the panel.
And the passenger side finished panel in place.
I got these new shiny chrome latches and dowels along with several other needed parts from Karl Wescott of Wescott Auto Restyling as part of a trade deal in exchange for a spare set of club cabriolet top irons I had collected for the car.....mmmm shiny new chrome pieces!
It was then time to pull out my collection of new and used door latches, handles, hardware etc.. In my opinion Henry's use of #12 screws is a pain in the a$$ relative to what I can easily get at my local hardware. So, while this isn't the right way...it was my solution to the issue...anywhere there was a #12 screw, I drilled out and re-tapped it to 1/4"-20. That way I could use my drawer full of 1/4-20 screws and fasteners. I was fortunate that everywhere a #12 screw was used, there was enough meat to accommodate the oversizing. So the rusty collection of #12 screws will find their way to the re-cycle bin. Oh, and I will be using new Bob Drake latches in order to be able to lock and unlock both doors.
The Bob Drake latches were slightly different from the stockers which then required removal of a bit of inner door structure to accommodate them. I will add steel behind this area once everything is fit in place and working.
The next issue was the factory rivet that holds the inside door latch release arm to the door latch. I know many of you guys are excellent riveters (I've seen your threads)...I'm not that guy. I do however have a welder (or 3), so I simply cut a small piece off the old latch (after the rivet), cut the Bob Drake latch in the same area and let molten metal solve the problem...and dressed the weld with the grinder.

Latch being mocked up in place with the newly re-sized 1/4" hardware. I test fit the outside door handle but there seems to be some funkiness with the angles. I decided to call it a day and save that for tomorrow when I'm fresh and full of energy.

 

Hey, acg;
On the top color; w/that green, maybe a darker green(at least ~4 shades darker), or vanilla shake, & the one that I *think* might work best: bright white. Might be worth coloring it in, maybe Moose'll help?
On the top-iron @ B-post-receptacle, maybe some slick plastic as a rubbing-surface/anti-rattle substance. Like maybe a thin sheet of polyethylene(water/milk-jug material?). I've seen small squares of similar that have sticky backing. I'd think you might have to clearance it channel - maybe(?), & for sure I'd polish smooth the top-iron where it'd rub the plastic.
Nice rear filler panel, but if access is the (a?) goal, I'd make the hole as big as I could get away with. I find the older I get, the less flexible I am - sadly. ;( .
As usual, very nice so far...
Marcus...

 

I know your pain with the #12 screws. I had to order a bag of 100 I guess when I run out I’ll do your 1/4” trick.
A drivers side door lock. I guess without a bench seat sliding over to the passenger side isa bit harder.

 

Nice post Tim! I had the same problem with my drake latches. It was one of the easier adjustments to make to accommodate aftermarket parts though.Those modified panels look great. Some really good welding and metal finishing !

 

Thanks Sam...indeed, after reading your thread for your coupe, I noted and implemented your correction method to address the Drake droopy door handles.

Specifically...my handles drooped by bout 5/16"...so I clamped one end of the square bar in the vice and carefully applied the necessary twist with an adjustable wrench on the other end (a few times to account for spring back) until the droop was gone.


Next up is the driver's side...and I'm going to tell a story on myself...in my eagerness to get the driver side done, I simply proceeded by fabricating the necessary parts (as you'll see shortly). When I got to the point of trial fitting the driver side latch (this is after the fabricating was complete), I noticed that the "locking" components were not part of the latch. Knowing that I ordered the driver's door locking mechanism, I went back to box that the parts were shipped in and noticed a bag that I had not previously seen. It contained the locking portion of the latch and...the components and template for the door lock tumbler retainer. So if I was smart enough to fully empty the box, I would have simply followed the instructions to install the following components.
Instead, this is how I did it (the hardway!)...I had to make the driver side...that looked like this after the hole was drilled.
Look and work like a mirror image of this (the passenger side):

So, out came various pieces of raw material, some time on the lathe and bit with the welder...
Once in place, I drilled 4 small holes and plug weld it into place and then metal finished.
It was now that I discovered the parts that were supplied to simplify this procedure...doh!!! Oh well, no harm, no foul and the driver side is now lockable and unlockable (the droopy handle on this side was also addressed).

 

Today was one of those days where very little got done, but it felt like a big symbolic step ahead. Firstly I spent a good deal of the morning on the phone touching base with a few of my fellow CanAm Curmudgeons car buddies just chatting and checking in...and that by itself was worth the time. Then, this afternoon, it was finally time to move the car over to the other side of the shop and take it off the table it's been sitting on for the past 5 years.


After rolling the table out, and adjusting the lift arms so they had a firm grip on the chassis, it was time to put the car down as low as the lift would go (understanding that I had the lift extensions in place to clear the running boards). While this is not quite as low as ride height yet and the suspension is in full droop. While it's hard to ignore the lift post...it was still pretty cool for me to see it much closer to the ground after staring at it up on the table for the last 5 years.

 

Well you had fun making the lock system bracket and it came out great ! So all is well. The convert looks great on the ground!

 

Wow, a lot to catch up on!
As for the top bow in the quarter bracket, the milk jug plastic sounds great, but if you are adverse to plastics of any kind, a wave washer might do it. Only issues would be getting it in there and aligned, and wear of the paint during use.

 

Made my day! Glad it worked for you!

 

@anothercarguy I blew it, I see now the iron slips up into there, not pinned or bolted.
Forget the washer. Maybe a small wedge of nylon button fitted?
A small hole in the iron to keep it in place, with a big section to rub against the u shape on each side?
https://www.phoenixspecialty.com/nylon-shims/

EDIT
Like these, but with a harder wear.
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/buttons/material~nylon/push-in-rivets-5/?s=nylon+buttons
another source to look at, furniture feet.
https://www.allglides.com/

 

Hi Tim, I have been thinking about your Top Iron cradle potential rattle problem. How about tapping the inside bracket surface flange and inserting a nylon, brass or stainless screw. The plastic would not mar the finish of your top iron and you could adjust and replace it as needed.

 

Thanks Sam...I like that idea!

 

Just be aware those are pretty strong in the direction of the length, but moving the top up and down is going to 'swipe' against them and they are pretty weak in that direction.

 

I've continued plugging along on the project...the rear axle has just been mocked into place with the axles stabbed into the holes in order to mount wheels to eyeball wheel placement. Now that the car is on the lift, it was time to start addressing it. The axle was out of mid-70's Lincoln Versaille with the early disc brakes. Way back when I began collecting parts for this car, that was the hot ticket (now you know how long the car has been on the back burner!). Because the car has a stick and we live on the mountainous west coast, I want a very good emergency/park brake. After much reading, this is not the strength of the Versaille disc brake package...so, I decided to convert to rear drums. One of the issues that needs to be corrected is the housing ends for the discs are at an odd angle that will not work with the drum brake backing plates.

So I cut the bearing housings off.

I had been planning this for a while...and had collected parts from various sources and at various times...this proved a bit problematic (I take full ownership of that, I'll explain some of the details later...and my " I have these parts and want to make them work solutions as I go forward). Anyway, I had found these housings on a table by one of the vendors at the GNRS a few years ago...yup, gonna need those and not too big to fit in a carry on bag!

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, after the old ends were cut off and before the new ones are welded on, it was time to finish welding the spring perches in place. While the car was on the table, the weight was on the springs and axles so before moving it to the lift, I measured the required pinion angle and confirmed that I had indeed tacked the spring brackets at the correct angle., so it was time to burn them in.

I then installed my axle jig and bar and slid the new bearing housings in place. The axle housing was indeed bent and needed to be straightened. Thanks to the writing by @Marty Strode for his tech on this a few years back...I pretty much copied his technique to straighten the housing
.
After the axle was straight, the bearing housings were chamfered, re-installed on the jig "pucks", the angle set to be correct for the drum plate backing plates and then tacked into place.
Here, again, I thank Marty S. for his tech write up on straightening axle housings that included the words of wisdom (and his experience learning the hard way) to remove the pucks from the axle and jig before welding solid or it will need to be pounded out with a sledge hammer! That's what I would have done...but instead, thanks to Marty I removed the jig, welded the end solid and then test fit the jig again to make sure the axle housing was still straight.

 

Nice work as always. I enjoy following along with your progress.

 

Thanks Ron @ronzmtrwrx

Next item to address was the rear ride height. Even though I mounted the rear upper shackle mount in a sleeve in the frame, the rear end seemed to be at least a couple inches too high. I know the springs will settle a bit after use, but I decided to start by making a 2" lowering block (with a locating pin on the top to locate the axle housing and a hole in the bottom to receive the locating pin on the leaf spring). I may be able to reduce this to a 1" block after the springs settle once the car is on the road but we'll make that call when we get there.

With the housing located, it was time to turn my attention to the center section. I have three gear ratios to choose from...2.47:1, 3.0:1 and 3.50:1.

The transmission I'm using is a Super T10 with the 3.42 first gear...so after a bunch of calculation of rpm at various speeds, I decided to try the 2.47:1 as the poor man's overdrive. Also feeding into this decision is the torquier almost fresh 350 SBC that I now have instead of the 283 I was originally planning to use in the car. Anyway, time to tear it down, rebuild and add a limited slip carrier while I'm in there (all three sets were open).

The 2.47:1 set makes for a very big pinion gear!
Setting lash, as well as the ring and pinion contact pattern.

Before I loaded the center section into the housing (and things get heavy in a hurry), I decided to address a couple other issues. First was to add a small C-notch to the rear frame rails.

With rear axle at the theoretical fully compressed state, it became clear that the top of the axle housing would contact the trunk floor, so it too got a little clearance bump.

I then measured the rear shocks at fully extended suspension as well as fully compressed. It was necessary to lean the top of the shocks in a bit and lower the upper mount slightly to give another 1 1/2 inches of suspension travel (in order to take advantage of the new C-notch and trunk floor bump). I realize that this makes the shocks slightly less effective, but the angles are still not too extreme and if necessary, I'll purchase better gas shocks down the road (perhaps Bilstein). I also added a bracket to the inside of the frame above the C-notch on both sides to bolt on the bump stops, so the shocks are not the actual bottom of the suspension.

The drum brakes that I plan to use on the rear are 11 X 2.25" and were sourced (along with the center section rebuild kit) from Quick Performance.

So, this is where I come clean on my self induced short term pain caused by ordering parts from different suppliers, at different times...without all the information at hand (totally on me!)...The backing plates and axle retainers I ordered are big bearing, old style (large pattern with 1/2" bolt holes). I hadn't noticed this, but the axle bearing end caps that I had ordered and installed were big bearing Torino style (small bolt pattern and 3/8" bolts). Doh!!

After head scratching a bit, I decided the quickest and least costly option ($18.00 for new 1/2" T-bolts) was to weld up the 3/8" small pattern holes on the axle flanges and re-drill them to the big bolt pattern with 1/2" holes. The new "1/2 inch T-bolts" are ordered.

And finally, after installing the new bearing and retainer ring on one axle, I noticed the surface of the axle where the seal rides is more pitted than I'd like...it would probably seal for a while...but I'm not interested in dealing with this on the road somewhere. I looked into and priced options for replacement axles, speedy-sleeves etc....

...And, decided to order another set of bearings with the o-ring built in to the outer surface of the bearing. They are coming along with the new 1/2" T-bolts. Hopefully they'll arrive early next week so I can finish assembling the rear suspension/axle.

 

nice knowledge on the brg./oring seal--how many cars/manufacturers do it that way?

 

Excellent design and fabrication as usual Tim. You have made some good progress in just a few weeks!

 

Great work!
Thought that I was the only one to make that backing plate mistake.

 

Beautiful shop that's reflected in the beautiful work!
Ford may be the Father of rodding and they have some great parts like the 9 inch, but they sure seem to enjoy having a half dozen variations which are not interchangeable and don't have solid, defined YMM breaks. Glad you were able to identify and fix this. I'll also say that while the previous fab work, then the sheetmetal work, then the upholstery showed a man of many talents, now you are also fabbing and building a complete axle. Kudos! Even your tacks look textbook!
@Marty Strode may have provided his expertise to guide you, but you also get credit for researching and following said guidance. This site is a wonderful resource for rank amateurs and serious craftsmen alike.

 

I'm not sure if/how many cars used the o-ring in the outer bearing to seal the rear axle bearings...but I know they are fairly popular in the aftermarket. These are the ones I plan on using:

https://www.quickperformance.com/Ford-9-Axle-Wheel-Bearing-RW508ER-9508B-3150-x-1531-_p_22829.html

Thanks Sam...now that most of the summer type projects are done (I still need to winterize the boat), the '38 is back to the top of my "to-do" list.

You are definitely not alone my friend!...and it's rewarding to hear neither am I!

I know right! Ford's variations are legendary! Another hiccup I had in the rear center section rebuild was the size of the carrier bearings...the three sections had 2 different size bearings...I had to use the housing from the 3.0 gears to support the 2.47 gears because the rebuild kit I bought had the larger bearings and the 2.47 housing had the smaller bearing...again, I only noticed that when I began assembling the 2.47 gears in the 2.47 housing which then required another head scratch and pivot!

Oh, and thanks, I appreciate the kind words.

 

My plan for the next few weeks is to get the chassis/car to stand on it's own 4 legs. In preparation, I mounted up the rear tires (235/75-15 because I have them) on the 8" wheels. I couldn't help myself from doing a mock up at the estimated ride height (still waiting for parts to complete the rear axle)...I like it...made me smile. I still need to buy front tires.