Tire Balancing Question

Someone mentioned on Plowboys tire thread about road force balancing and Megan just mentioned it again in an email. I just ordered a set of Diamondbacks for Big Olds and I'm curious about the difference between regular balancing and this term road force that I've never heard of.

Also, how much weight is within the "normal" range for a Michelin 215-75R15. Just want to be prepared with knowledge.

 

Road force balancing has a roller pushed against the tire during spin to simulate road forces.

Normal weights, a good rule of thumb is you don't want to see more than 3 or 4 inches of weight on either side of the rim, and never exceed 6 inches total weight on both sides or you need to be repositioning the tire. Yes there are nitpicky rodders who will insist on trying to get less, but in the real world using real tire shops that's a decent yardstick.

A good tire man's already shooting for that because he knows huge heavy weights are prone to flying off, and he doesn't like comebacks.

good luck

 

You can also go to this website, www.innovativebalancing.com . With them you insert a special valve and place beads within the tire, amount depending on tire size. Once the car rolls a bit, the tires start to balance themselves "dynamically" and will change when conditions change and your balance changes from what it was to what it is at that moment.

Static or spin tire balancing is only good until the first bump or whatever changes it - then the "balance" is off.

I'm using this system on my 40 Ford std coupe and the 32 in my avatar. My coupe's tires ride really smooth and the ride overall is very good. Overall, I could not be happier and highly recommend it.

 

I've always had relly good luck with Michelins of all sizes. On a 215-75X15 I would guess you'll have not more than a couple of ounces - maybe considerably less unless the wheel is "off" somehow. I've had Michelins balance with 1/2 oz. before.

 

road force balance is only helpful when running out of round coker tires.

 

That's not true at all. Roadforce balancing is quickly becoming the standard for many major tire shops. It just plain works better. Whether it's a perceptible difference or not, better balancing reduces tire operating temps, wear on steering and suspension components, and helps prevent tire wear and failures. Balancing, be it roadforce or other methods, doesn't help solve out of round tire problems at all. It will help you match the heavy spot of the tire to the light spot on the rim, resulting in less weight overall. It will also tell you how bad your tire/wheel ***y is out of round. How would adding weight to the rim change the shape of the spinning tire? You can balance a cube, but it still won't roll. (smokey Yunick)

BTW, Denise, when I worked in the tire shop, anything over 5 oz was considered excessive.

 

Exactly what I just found out, I've got excessive weight on a few Cokers, that and a couple of other things is why I'm giving these Michelins from Diamondback a shot.

Exactly the info on weight I was looking for, thanks.

 

I've seen this done on semis and tractors using golf balls.
Probly overkill for hot rods and such.

Jeff

 

One thing the guys slightly touched on, out or round tires. I work at a shop that does alignments a tire balancing. We see vehicles with tire shake problems that have had the tires balanced on a machine previous to visiting us. Primary causes---out of round caused by improper mounting, out of round from ****py production tolerances, or the carc*** coming apart.
As far as balancing beads and other snake oil ****, don't waste your money on it. This also includes Sensamatic tires balancers for big truck stuff.
Good luck ma'am.

 

A lot of interesting information at the link from TomT...

Not exactly what Denise was after, but worth checking out nonetheless. I think they're worth a try...

 

I like to see 2oz. or less per side when I balance tires.
Also, its amazing how many people don't know to line up the paint dot on the tire with the valve stem. That can help balancing as well.

I've also seen guys leave hunks of mud, grease, etc inside a rim and balance it.

 

What roadforce essentially does is optimize the tire postion on the wheel...i.e. the 'heavy spot' of the tire is matched with the 'light spot' on the wheel. When done correctly, it's unbeatable and worth the extra $$$ over a standard dynamic or static balance.

 

Advice from and "Old Fart", a lot of the older wheels were not as precision made as wheels today are, in many cases if we had a heavy imbalance we would rotate the tire 180 degrees and recheck the balance,in many cases that's all it would take to bring it into spec.

 

I usually don't like to see anything over 3 oz. on a p***enger car tire....I have one of those balancers and love it....fixed a long time vibration in my panel truck....next time your in the neighbor hood

 

That used to be a standard part of getting the tires to balance for me when I worked at Frank Weaver Pontiac in Waco in the early/mid 70's . If the tire took too much weight you broke it down and turned it 180 degrees on the rim. Same thing if it showed to be out of round.

An on the car spin balancer, preferrably using a strobe light is still the most accurate way to balance the tires. If you can find someone who has the equipment and knows how to operate it right.

 

Again, exactly the explantion I was looking for, thanks. I called Discount Tire and the difference is $5 per tire. $20 per as opposed to $15. I'm going to spend the extra for sure.

I should have just had the new Diamondbacks delivered to your crib and made a cool weekend visit outta it.

 

I used a Hunter DSP9000 at the last shop I worked at, this will do the road force balancing and tell you if the tire should be dismounted and turned on the rim for a better balance,I'd try to find a shop that has this machine or the equivelent.

 

If you dont believe in road force balance or dynabeads, I will take you for a ride in my bias ply wearing Model A that has zero weights on the 40 ford wheels.

 

Amen.

 

I believe, I believe..... but I still want to go for a ride!

 

I think that is key there. We had a set of Coker bias plys on 35 ford wires that we had troubles with. Had a place load balance them and they were awful.

We've always had great luck with our ol faithful static balancer on all of our cars that get driven thouasands of miles a year. I'm not disputing that the load balance don't work cause in my mind it should work better, but just stating what has worked well for us over the years.

If ya got a good wheel and a good tire, get them mounted correctly you shouldn't never need more than an ounce or two at most. Plus it keeps the ugly weight off the outside of the wheel.

 

I run dynabeads in my motorcycle, and will always run them.

 

Really it depends on how you drive weather balancing even matters, i have grooves cut in my tires on my daily from the trim ring clips, the tire rotates in the wheel,

But i always start out with bubble ballencing my wheels, good enough for me

 

i've ask this before but forgot the answer,is a strobe light used on the road force balance? getting old ,ala crs

 

The Parnelli Jones Racing Div. van used to go to the Salt for Speed Week with a load of skins & a bubble balancer. Yes, our wheels were mostly old ones too.

 

No, the machine spins the wheel/tire ***embly and another wheel comes in and rides against it.....measuring runout while its spinning. It also uses arms with wheels to measure the runout of the wheel.

 

A bit off on a tangent, but a few months back I had the 31's tires and wheels balanced on a spin balancer.

One of the front wheels was "in balance" and didn't require any weights.


Never ran into that before.

Does it happen often?

 

Road force is becoming the norm now days.
However the magic word in your post is " Michelin" after many years working in a tire shop Michelin was ALWAYS THE BEST MONEY COULD BUY AND STILL ARE!! And i worked years for Firestone.....

I also have a electronic balancing machine and just installed a new set of Michelins on my lowrider 04 GMC truck , took less than .05 oz per wheel and tire. Awesum ride......

See ya next week with new tires ??

 

The strobe light ballance I used to use had a sensor on a stand that you connected to the bottom of the car with it's built in magnet.

No external apparatus on the wheel like a Hunter spin ballancer had. The hand held strobe had a meter on it to show how much weight to put on.

That thing was pretty close to being an antique in 1974 but it did the job and kept the worlds pickiest customers happy.

 

Well they are ordered but I was told they are made to order and would take a couple of weeks. I made sure James knew that I really wanted to "show off" HIS WWW DiamondBacks on Big Olds at the GoodGuys Indy event and the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green the following weekend and perhaps asking his supervisor if moving my order to the front of the line might be worth it to them.

They would have to come by Wed for me to get them mounted on Thursday. Kinda a stretch but my fingers are crossed.

While I have your ear, remember that noise that I was explaining to you? Turns out it was a ball joint. From there it's been a snowball effect of stuff I've had to repair or replace on BO since I've seen you. Will fill you in on everything next weekend. My "room" is still reserved at Bubba's Inn right?