Tired of fighting with this car. Anyone want a crack at it?

I am at wits end with this car. 66 Galaxie 352 a/t.

I work on it for a while then get so aggravated that I leave it for months on end. Its been years since I could drive this car for what seems like should be an easy fix. I feel like I have exhausted every thing I can think of with the dang thing. I used to drive this car daily 70 miles for years with no problems and that's the only thing that gives me hope.

Its too lengthy and aggravating to rehash all I have done right now here, but 1 rebuilt Autolite 4100, then a new Edelbrock. Replaced points with Pertronix. Checked timing, fiddled with carb settings repeatedly. Still the same problems. If there is any one in the DFW area that wants to come take a look at this sinister old witch, have at it. I swear this car is fighting me tooth and nail and something has got to give or its gone.

It starts fairly easy and idles for a while until it just dies. Restarting is diffcult if not impossible. The fuel line is cool to touch. I just put a phenolic spacer on it so I could rule out a heat soak/vapor lock issue. The instant I put it in gear, it dies. I can barely keep it running feathering the gas. It will not idle in gear. I am half wondering if the spark is getting weak after it runs a while, but I replaced the coil.

Listening to it idle it is not entirely smooth. Even holding the rpms up its not as smooth as it ought to be. Seems like a miss every now and then.

So now I am thinking about the one thing I never looked at. Maybe the timing chain is done? Maybe a lot of slack in it? What are the symptoms of a slack timing chain? How much delay should there be when turning the crank to see the distubutor rotor move?

 

vacuum leak

 

Timing chain was my first thought.

There should be very little delay between the turning of the crank and the dist.

 

Sounds Like a timing issue or fuel delivery issue...could be the timing chain or could be the fuel filter not sure which one. I'd change both just to rule them out. Slack in the timing chain will make it idle and run rough but Ive not seen it kill the vehicle unless it jumps a tooth and then it wouldnt start at all in most cases. Could also be a vacuum issue...spray some ether around the intake and vacuum lines while ideling and see if the engine races up.

 

one way to check the carb is after it dies install your carb on another vehicle, thats an easy way to rule it out as a problem, also have you tried just squrting gas into the carb before trying to restart? one of these should eliminate the carb as a problem, then onto fire.

 

Take the dist cap off then with a breaker handle and socket turn the crank while watching the dist rotor.once the rotor moves go back the oppsite direction and note the crank shaft distance moved. The rotor should start as fast as the crank-Sounds like a blown timeing chane and gear set.

 

I can rule out fuel delivery I think. Everything from a new sock in the tank, cleaned/clear tank, pump, and see through filter up to the carb. Its stays full the whole time so it doesn't seem to be starving either. Its clean too.

I can search again for vaccum leaks, but been there before and never found anything.

 

Bad vacuum advance? My 66 LTD behaved like that. But seeing you have different carbs, that might not be the issue. Maybe it is the chain.

 

Yep, been there too. New advance.

I have even eliminated the brake booster in the past too.

 

Sounds Like it has to be timing then, When it dies does the engine come to a stop really quick like it should or does it hesitate or try to keep running?

 

You put the word Edelbrock in there for a carb. I have an Edelbrock 800 cfm carb. It has a manual choke. I find that if I don't set the choke per the weather that the thing loads up and drives me nuts. It really hates to be warm and pulling hot or warm air. She runs fine when she starts, begins to load up and fouls the plugs after a bit. Then she dies off and cools down or unloads the rich mix and we start again. I actually have to dick with the jets and springs to get her to run properly across the seasons. The bitch of it is that you keep thinking it is something else, ignition, fuel anything. The one thing that always proves it out for me is that if the choke is too lean she just will not fire, if it is too rich she will load up, you get about 5 to 10 minutes of real promise, then the choke opens up and she starts to run like crap. I bought a jet kit and adjust the old girl per the weather. I have a log book for what is good for when and how and if it's too far off I swap a rod or spring per the conditions.
Hey, now I'm the computerized carburation.

 

I would start by hooking a vacuum gauge to it.
One other thought, plugged exhaust system, like a internally collapsed muffler, this can make many a grown man chase his tail.
Good luck with it.

 

My first initial thought was vacuum leak...I've never had firsthand experience with a timing chain giving those symptoms, so I can't comment on that...have you ever just gone around the intake and just torqued the bolts for the hell of it? Maybe you'll get lucky and find a loose intake bolt that makes a difference in how it runs so you can throw a new gasket into it and finally get this problem whipped...

 

Sounds like the coil could be breaking down, does it start again after sitting awhile ? pete.

 

LoL, I didnt even read the most part of your first post...I know mama always said read it thoroughly. Should have asked Some questions before giving suggestions... Did it do this before you made all the changes to the distributor and carb? Do you have a mechanical fuel pump or manual? Have you pulled your plugs to see if its flooding?

 

I would take the dist out and check and oil the shaft and see if its loose turn upside and clean and oil remove dirt.Then maybe return to points and condenser.When you remove it mark were it was pointing.

 

I would suspect the intake manifold gaskets first.

Second I would give your intake manifold a very thorough inspection to see if there is a crack between the exhaust crossover and the intake. Faulty EGR systems exhibit this same behavior, as the engine heats up more exhaust gas makes it into the intake and chokes the engine out.

 

Is there enough voltage to the new ignition if you use the old wire may have a resistor inline pete.

 

New exhaust from headers all the way. Less than 20 miles on it. On the rare occasion it did run, I managed to get it there and get the exhaust done thinking this other issue wouldn't be hard to conquer.

Not really abrupt. When I first get in and crank it, it will run for a good 10 minutes then it starts to struggle like its loading up even though the choke is off. Giving it gas by then just make it sputter and no amount of feathering makes a difference. Franco has me thinking at least.

The problem is that it was doing this with the original Autolite 4100 and it was clean and rebuilt. I went through it 6 times and even had others check it over and could not see a problem. New floats in it too. I think I can swap the carb on another motor and see what happens.

As I understand, you can't blow out a power valve in an Edelbrock from a backfire through the carb like you can a Holley, but I wonder if there is other ways to damage one with a backfire?

 

I read it over many times;

If it starts good, then looses rpm's to finally quit, then won't restart, that sounds like it's flooding out...but I am sure you would have said it starts to run black out the exhaust, etc.

So I am thinking it's ignition related if you are sure it is not flooded.

It would be great if you had a spare points distributor to try.

 

My thoughts also,,

 

This has me thinking most. I did a recent intake gasket change because it was leaking oil out the back. I might have to re torque all the bolts. I hooked a vaccum gauge and it runs a little lower than the "idle" section, but its steady. May be on to something.

Pertronix does away with the resistor wire.

Yes, it would do it sometimes, but not consistent.

 

Have you checked the rubber vacuum line from the trans to the intake??? Headers will bake that line and become brittle and crack causing a vacuum leak..

 

At the risk of sounding retarded, Have you seen if it'll run with the gas cap off? Like a plugged vent maybe? It sounds like you've been thru everything else. I'd put a chain on it anyway, but this one is real easy to try.

Kevin

 

No offense, but did you clean the surfaces perfectly and use any gasket sealer or RTV to seal the new intake gaskets? I really do think this narrows it down, and the warmer the motor gets the worse your leak gets...

My '63 Dodge ran and drove fine when I bought it, kind of finicky at times and I tried everything...reset timing, rebuilt the carb, this, that, the other...I was dicking around with some wrenches under the hood and decided to tighten the intake manifold and found 2 of them were loose...torqued them down and she runs and idles like a top now, except for the clockspring choke system, but at least that is manageable compared to the idle and driving gremlins it had before...

 

Hell, I may be off base here, but what about there being trash in the fuel bowl on the carb blocking off the needle and seat? The bowl fills up while sitting, and then runs fine until the bowl is empty, then struggles from there.

You might try taking a small hammer and tapping on the carb hold down bolts while it is starting to stumble and see if anything changes. This is at least free....

Also, have you tried squirting gas into the carb as it starts to stumble and run ragged, or as a starting aid when it shuts down after warming up? To me it almost sounds like you're not getting enough fuel to keep it running. Even if the filters are full and clear, that doesn't mean the fuel is being delivered past the motor. I'm reminded of a 'Wrecks To Riches" episode in Barry White's speed shop where they had a fuel delivery problem with a brand new blower on the 502 motor (or something like that). They couldn't get anything to work... had fuel past the carbs, spark, etc, etc. Then they pulled the intake off and there was a plastic protective shipping skin under the blower that needed to be removed and hadn't been.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

This may sound "way out there", but have seen the problem many times, and sounds like what you are experiencing. Fords had a problem with the advance slots in the points backing plate wearing, and allowing the plate to move, changing the point gap/timing, or in your case, allowing the pertronics conversion to move and change the gap. If this is your problem, a new backing plate will make it run like a new one.

 

Thats like when you pull something apart to fix it and someone left a rag in there when they were assembling it..... or we just got my cousin a 2000 ford focus for $ 700 bucks because they had replaced the fuel pump and it quit after about an hour... so i dropped the tank and the guy had put a fitting on the fuel line he broke but forgot hose clamps.....

 

first iwould take the gas cap off. humor me. next make sure you the right voltage going to you electronics. some systems have a resister and some don't. in the start mode it is 12v when you release the key it drops to 6v.

 

Man If I were you I would start by process of Elimination starting with the cheapest to the more expensive things. First I would pull the plugs and see if there black then check for vacuum leak...Try the Ether trick or something like it (Some people wouldnt want to get that close to headers or spark plug wires with ether but I have done it many times trying to find a leak) Up to you if you feel comfortable with that. Then I would try tapping on the carb while its ideling, Then I would check the voltage to the coil and so on.. In my opinion it is probably either (1.) a vacuum leak ( 2.) a flooding problem (maybe too much fuel pressure if you dont have a fuel regulator) or (3.) a timing issue.