Technical TKX whining noise, hard engagement/grinding in 4th

Hi,

I'm hoping to get some advice as to what could be causing issues with the brand new TKX I put in my truck.

Here's a parts list:

RAM Bearing Part Num: 78132
Engine: 347 stroker SBF
Bellhousing: Ford performance M-6392-R58
Clutch master cylinder: Speedway motors 91025680, 1.375in stroke
Block plate thickness: 0.080"
Clutch: RAM HDX 88794HDT
Flywheel: RAM Billet Steel 1527
Pilot Bushing: RAM BU50F, 0.671" ID (sintered bronze)
Fluid: 3qt of Royal Purple Synchromax

My main issue is what's in the title. At idle or engine off, I can run through all the gears with the clutch in with no noise/difficulty, but as soon as I get going, there is a definite whining noise. Some gears will sometimes grind, but the one consistently grinding is 4th, very hard to engage. When it does go into gear, the transmission whines the loudest, so much so that I haven't stayed in 4th for more than a couple seconds before going to 5th/3rd.

The bellhousing was dial indicated to less than .004" of runout. Clearance from bearing face to clutch fingers is 0.165".

I've made sure to bleed the bearing properly, clutch disengages nicely. Raised the back of the truck and made sure wheels weren't turning in gear with the clutch in and laying on the gas pedal.

I'm not sure what else to check. I'm suspecting a misaligned/energized input shaft at this point, but curious as to what others think before I take the time to remove the trans.

One thing to mention is that I put the transmission in with the bellhousing already bolted to the engine (after dial indicating it), and it wasn't easy because of the tight fit between the collar the hydraulic bearing rides on and the bellhousing opening.

Thanks for any insight

 

Correct fluid? I know the TKO calls for ATF, Dex 2 I think.

Chris

 

Well, 4th gear is 1:1 so there shouldn't be any gears involved, just straight-through transmission of power. If any gear should be quiet, it should be this one. Shifter issues? You mention a tight fit of the front bearing cover, is it fully seated into the bell?

I have an interest here as I have one sitting on the floor to go into my '60 Ford, but behind a FE... I have a few more hoops to jump through. I am retaining the manual clutch linkage on mine, no hydraulic for me.

 

I had a whining noise coming from the passenger side of my car. Got rid of the wife and it was gone!

 

Have you called Tremec?

 

Fluid is correct according to equivalency charts; Synchromax matches GM Synchromesh.

Shifter is stock, no aftermarket offset etc. It is fully seated into the bell, which I did by hand, not drawing the bolts in.

Anyone think it'd be worth undoing the bolts from bell to block and trans to crossmember, slide it back some and see if it slides in easy? Pilot bushing seems like a tight tolerance to me, 0.001" clearance to the input shaft.

I did call Tremec, waiting for someone to call me back but it's been 2 days.

 

My supplier seemed pretty adamant about fluid choice; the GM stuff or Mobil full synthetic ATF.

 

Bellhousing indexed to centerline of crankshaft?

 

Keyword here is Brand New. Best to talk to Tremec or wherever you bought it from. If you haven't heard from them in two days, call them again.

 

American Powertrain has some good techs also.

 

I had no whine from mine. I'd have a little difficulty thinking a snug snout fit would cause any problems. This is from the tremec service manual
For all TKX 5-speed models, TREMEC recommends TREMEC High Performance Manual Transmission Fluid (HP-MTF™), Dexron-III, GM Synchromesh™, Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, or Pennzoil® Synchromesh. Fluid capacity is 2.7 quart / 2.6 liter.
Because yours is brand new, I think you have defective something. Good luck with the outcome. Depending on who you purchased it from, they might be able to exchange it so you aren't down to long. Shipping a trans is a real pain.

 

He said it was in his original post.

 

Any chance the input just barely bottomed in the crank or pilot bushing? I’d think it would have seized by now, but who knows. The whining and worse in 4th kind of sounds like a compressed input/main shaft.

 

Could be? I'm not sure; I tried sticking a borescope in-between the clutch fingers, but I can't. The input shaft might be energized...

Issue is, if I do pull it out or even slide it back slightly, I'm not sure what to look for besides maybe marks on the input shaft or difficulty going back in.

 

If the input is bottomed it should be a problem in any gear. Now I hate to say this but you know your bell is good now you have to ckeck front bearing retainer for concentricity of ID and OD. I pretty sure front bearing is a taper roller and there is some preload to the mainshaft through the rear bearing. Best get Tremek on the phone.

 

If you can slide the trans up tight to the bellhousing by hand, I'd say the alignment is correct. You might want to look into an internal problem with the trans. JMHO.

 

Besides getting the center line within spec did you check to make sure the bellhousing is parallel to the block? That has to be under .005 as well. I had to shim mine at the top of the bellhousing to get under .005.

 

By concentricity, do you mean between the bellhousing and the collar the hydraulic bearing rides on? And if the input is indeed bottomed out, what are you supposed to do then? Adding shims to the bell would mean adding the same amount behind the release bearing?

Didn't mention it but yeah, parallelism checks out as well.

 

Since its a Ford, I don't know if all the belhousings had one size holes for the retainer. Chevy had 2 sizes and if someone used the large hole with the small retainer, the trans had room to move off center. Like I said, don't know if Ford had that issue.
Something you might try to make sure you are not bottoming the input shaft........loosen the mounting bolts and slip a washer between the trans and the bellhousing at each bolt. Not enuff to keep it from staying aligned, but maybe enuff to remove any possible pressure. Wondering if the pilot bearing might not be all the way in or slight interference there.

After 2 days, I'd be back on the phone with Tremec........and pissed.

 

I like the washer suggestion from ekimneirbo. I would use an washers because of their close tolerances. That will eliminate or confirm the most repeated thought.

 

I take my dial indicator to the store for things like that.

 

Maybe front end shims?

 

There's a bunch of those in use and I haven't heard of any similar complaints. The Op has been careful in checking all of the normal items but I would double check everything before I sent out the lynch mob. I'm old and do make mistakes.

 

Thanks for the suggestion folks, plan is to slide the transmission back some to inspect the input shaft and the pilot bushing. If things appear normal, I'll shim the bell housing with washers. I'll update when that's done.

 

PXL_20230617_193956539 by Jimbo Nettles posted Jun 17, 2023 at 2:45 PM

PXL_20230617_193728542 by Jimbo Nettles posted Jun 17, 2023 at 2:45 PM

So I slid the transmission back and drained the fluid.... It ain't good as you can see from the pictures.

None of it is magnetic, and upon closer inspection, it looks like aluminum flakes.

If a synchro/gear was eating itself, wouldn't it be brass/steel in the drain pan? Again this thing has less than 1 mile on it.

Re. the transmission, interesting thing happened when I removed the bellhousing bolts: the bottom part of the transmission kicked away from the block, almost as if the crossmember sits too high. I'm able to slide it in and out of the block relatively easily (on my back in a gravel driveway that is).

I've put a few bolts back in, going to try to start the engine with the driveshaft disconnected and see if I can go in every gear without noise.

 

That is out of the transmission? You need a new one of them....

-Abone.

 

It is still repairable.
aluminum flakes is probably the mid plate or front of the casing [due to lack of end play or a seized bearing]
I have saved plenty of "Junk" Muncie cases.

If it was a T56 or T5 it could also be the aluminum shift forks that have dropped a friction pad [causing the sliders to bind]

What I like about transmissions is they are stupid simple to repair them [yet most people think they are a "black art"]

 

What did Tremec say when you called them.....

 

It is likely eating the case or plate as previously mentioned. Time to do an autopsy. Subscribed.

 

Well folks it's bad news all around and it's my fault. Here's what happened:

The hydraulic bearing kit I got from RAM required me to change out the stock bearing retainer for theirs (first picture). In doing so, I didn't realize the race for the input shaft bearing came out with the retainer, as well as the shims in there. Because of the tight fit, it seemed like one piece. Nowhere in the RAM instructions did they mention to watch out for that, but at the end of the day this is my fault, I should have known better when I questioned how loose the input shaft was with the new retainer.

You can see the aftermath in the second picture. I'm hoping the aluminum flakes only came from that new part. I flushed the transmission and cleaned everything as well as I could. Double checked input shaft endplay etc. I don't really have a choice but to put it back in and pray, Tremec refused to warranty it of course, seeing as it isn't their part that was installed on their.

Brand new transmission... It sucks; hopefully this helps someone in the future. Thanks for all the suggestions.

PXL_20230626_003038093 by Jimbo Nettles posted Jun 26, 2023 at 8:04 AM

PXL_20230626_003048772 by Jimbo Nettles posted Jun 26, 2023 at 8:04 AM