Sounds really cool. Is it going to be available to buy complete or kit form? What gauge will it handle? Thanks, Steve
This is very cool! This would be a very useful tool to have around! Thanks for sharing and keep us updated!
Wow only 2 responces after he posted the price. You all go into sticker shock? I like it. What would something like that cost to ship to California?
Dan, I can't believe you are trying to sell these. I have always respected you and now you have lost all of that respect. Maybe you can sell the plans you stole, to harbor freight.. Kerry Pinkerton and Tim Doty designed this reciprocating hammer and made the plans available for free. All they asked was that you used them for personal use and not to make a back stabbing profit from them. Check out the thread where he made it very clear. Judge for yourself. http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=37
Hey John, I had a hand in designing this machine too! I totally agree that selling machines that were designed by a group with clear instruction that it was not cool to be used for profit is very unethical. Hey Dan, shall someone who has built a few of these critique the design? Apologies to Ryan and the other HAMBers for posting this here, but, he started it! Tim D.
Sorry Tim You defiantly Did. I also apologize to Ryan and the other HAMBers. Just feel a bit betrayed.
Just as well to let everyone here know that the plans were offered free, that should kill pretty much any chance he has of selling these on (as far as I know) the biggest hotrod website on the internet. It should be blatantly obvious that this is nearly a perfect copy of that design. Pretty sad & petty really. I'd be embarrassed to claim any association with a person of this caliber. It's one thing to claim you've come up with a design for a tool (when you xeroxed it) but it is quite another to actually offer it for sale publicly on a monstrous website such as this. I don't know how people of this nature sleep at night. And Tim, while I do believe you played some role in the design of that hammer, I do not believe you've built even one let alone several. I know you built a couple little table top reciprocators but they're hardly the same. You should by all means claim some design help but not "built a few". We all know that's bullshit. By all means, prove me wrong and post the pics of the quilled reciprocating hammer you built off this design and I'll eat my words. But I've read that whole thread twice and if you posted yours, it has magically disappeared.
Grant, you almost have a point. I've built 3; 2 small "tabletop" machines and the big one I never bothered to post pictures of, cuz it was a POS. The lessons learned from the little ones most certainly do apply. The lessons learned from building a 16" throat machine out of 4" square and cutting it up to use the material for something else because it was a POS also apply. The "little tabletop" machine I have right now (and have been using for a few years now) is made of 3/4" plate, blanchard ground down to 11/16". With the 1hp motor on it, it weighs in at 155lbs. I weighed it for shipping costs before Dan decided $500 was too much for it. The big machine isn't done yet (that whole job thing keeps getting in the way of having fun). The quilled style machine is how I built my first one, which I didn't think was all that great. It was cool to build and it worked ok.............and I sold it for a price I thought was reasonable for a first attempt - $220 cash and carry. I prefer the tool slides and I think the new big one will wear the slide as well. $125 for the slide is a bit pricey, but it works very well. I stole the quill style design for my first one from Anders Norgaard, and always give a nod to him when I mention it (or I try to anyway). Since I wouldn't bother to build a little one out of 4" square, I think that says something there too. Oh well, as always, what do I know? Tim D.
I didn't say you didn't know anything and I've seen the ones you've built. I never said the lessons learned didn't apply. As I said you do deserve some credit for aiding in this design and so do around a dozen other people. Arial never mentions the fact that he HAS built this dang near exact machine. It's not pertinent to the fact that the design was stolen, copied and offered for sale. In the same paragraph that you scold this guy's actions you offer to critique it for him. You should have just said you were involved heavily in this design and left it at that. However, you make it sound to someone who doesn't know any better, as though you have built a few of this particular machine. While a small handful of people know that you have built power hammers or whatever you want to call machines of this nature I think your statement is very misleading. I don't almost have a point, I do have a point and I think I made it quite clear twice. The only guy I'll apologize to is Johnny because I know that he doesn't like to read things like this. I'd make no apologies to the HAMB community for exposing a thief and possibly saving someone 3 grand in the process. You have nothing to be sorry for.
Ah, then allow me to rephrase that into "built several reciprocating machines for forming and shaping sheetmetal". Exposing someone is one thing, airing our dirty laundry on someone else's forum is quite another. I just want to offer the due respect to the owners and members of this forum for venting about things that originated in our forum. Tim D.
So... everyone who helped design it can feel free to share their version of the plans for one of these? That seems fair.
Or, you can follow the link John posted and find pretty much everything you need to know to build your own - part numbers and everything. Just a thought. Tim D.
If i remember right last week someone posted about making one and he gave a pretty good blow by blow on it, then this comes out with a (in my mind) stupid price, google searches are wonderful!
has anyone done the math on building their own. this thread will get better as more people chime in. i have seen this guys stuff at some of the local swapmeets and all the nw. hambers will be made aware of this bullshit. thanks guys.
Dan, the problem is that you broke trust with folks who were trying to help you. In the first part of every build thread are these words: The plans or design are available free for any to use for building their personal machine. HOPEFULLY people would not use this as the basis for a commercial product. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the pubic areas of anyone who does. ONE of the things that killed the MetalMeet thread was someone who decided to produce machines. They never did but the acknowledgment that they were definitely shut down the sharing to a large degree. Some folks are very sensitive to being given credit for their ideas. The best way to totally shut down sharing is for someone to steal ideas for profit. It's not illegal but it sure as heck isn't right. That is in: http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=287 and: http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=325 as well as the original group design thread: http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=37 Here is your build diary: http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=311 Folks who care can read them all and see how much of your 'design' was a direct lift from the site. Heck we even told you how to spell "Shapester" correctly! HAMBers the info is free but please don't try and make and sell for profit. That's just wrong to take advantage of others like that. I certainly did not expect this type of behavior from Dan of all people. Regarding Tim's selling his machines. It's one thing to build a machine for personal use, use it a while, then sell IT as needs change. There is no problem with that. It is quite another to participate in a community as an equal member and then rip off other folks freely given ideas to copy their tool for profit. And I'm not claiming that everything you copied came from me or us but a good bit of it is a direct lift. And fellow HAMBers, in the oh by the way department , the machines shown in the previous links can be built for less than $200 in materials less a motor. Less if you are a good scrounger and have a good 'pile o stuff'. There is only one part that needs to be machined and that is a simple eccentric. Having built 5 reciprocating machines (kept 2 and gave away 3 free to friends), I would recommend building it out of considerably larger tubing than Dan's 4x4x1/4
I also did not see anything mentioned about part of the proceeds goint to ryan or the metal workers site, maybe if that is your intention why not say so that way folks might be inclined to buy one (not) at that price. what percentage were you going to donate? 10%, 40% 60%??
Now that is funny! Danny, announcing your intentions before offering the machines for sale might have gone a long way. Tim D.
Dan The part that upsets me the most is even though we have never met I considered you a friend. Why did you place it for sale here?We have a free classifieds you could have placed it there.Was it because you knew it was wrong?I think thats why you didn't. Sorry for venting this here on H.A.M.B but this is where it was posted.I will never respond to this thread again and if it was on my site I would delete it. If we start stealing ideas and plans,everyone will quit posting good content.I don't know about you guys but I think that would suck.
This is the type of thing that makes it hard to give and share. I tend not to post pictures much of things I do, just for this vary reason. Good luck. I really liked you. I thought you were a like minded friend also, but I dont want to get into it on the net. I know originally Kerry P. posted (on All metal shaping) with the thought of helping Johnny Arial with his machine so that We could get it done. The Tool holder idea was Richard (the rod doc on M.M.), but Hey what do I know. Im just some hack artist Know nothing whom is considering making a MOlding of rare cast bronze to sale on ebay. WHy not. I have a copy, the artist signature and a good way to forge that. I could probably make a $$ or two. but the estate that gave me it, might get a little pist. YOu could play with your self in Church, but just cause you can, don't mean you should. This seams to be a trend....... Lots of tool companies an other (big and small) seem to be doing this alot no a days. Bill
The Jalopy Journal
