i wonder what the inspiration was for the Eddie Dye car? looks like those lights came off easily? but no intention of racing?
re: foreign sports car inspired custom... Not every hotrod in existence was a dry lakes car - or a circle track car. the farther east you went, the more cars were influenced by european sports cars. Personally, I disagree with the comment that the light pods look like a 60's custom deal - early Allards had a similar front end treatment. Zach - Go look at the postwar european sports car scene, and see what's out there, including Peugot (sp), BMW, Panhard, Tatra, Singer...There are many examples of similar styling cues on these cars. this is what I think of when I see your drawing. Damned thing went 205 MPH on the Auobahn...in 1939.
thanks chuck.... out network to save files is messed up today at work...so....ive been going through site after site of foreign sports cars all morning makes me wana just scrap the whole brookville body and do one all aluminum...single seater!! alchemy...well....im starting to see your "light" at the end of the tunnel heres a talbot i found
the Talbot looks pretty damn close to what the car wants to be... more of a custom/racer... Didn't the Edsel Ford racer have headlights? i think they were a bit akward, but could be refined... jsut an idea.
I saw a setup over the weekend - although for the life of me I cannot remember where - that used a custom a frame type steering arm connected to the back of '37-'41 spindles. The arm was one of those that was designed to work with the cowl steering design, but this guy had one on each side, and had headlights mounted on them. I'm sure they'd be bounced around pretty well, and I don't know how much the lights can take when treated like that, but it was a neat setup. And the lights turned the same directions as the wheels, which helped see when going around corners. I doubt this'd work with what your doing, but I saw it and thought I'd offer. It looked interesting if nothing else.
The treatment on the Talbot looks good and I have been thinking about the Edsel speedster since this conversation started. I just think you enter a completely different style of build when you integrate the lights to that degree. And not that it's going to look bad - quite the opposite. But you definitely and instantly lose the pureness of a hot rod purpose built to race flat out across a lakebed. BUT... the simple fact is you are building a car that will be driven on the street so... I think one thing that has been overlooked and I'm pretty sure is key is color. There is one car that stands out above all others here and I think pulls this whole idea off brilliantly. Probably one of my favorite cars ever - top five easily - and the funny thing is I can never remember who built it or who it belongs to. I always end up refering to it as "that aluminum roadster from England". Basically a 28 roadster recreated in aluminum. Body is left bare and polished with all of the running gear and headlights - which are fairly big buckets but mounted low - painted black. So you have this beautiful silver body with gorgeous lines jumping out at you straightaway and everything else just sort of falls back and fills out the overall the shape... which is unmistakable as a hot rod. I think the owner has even added cycle type fenders without completely spoiling the effect by following the same formula.
The fullf faired low lights look too bulky and heavy for a hotrod... If you want something different from the default choice of small lights on stands, how about lights of the sort used on various GM cars of the late '30's...long pods with curved bottoms to fit fenders. Cut the curved lower edges to match the sweep of a Ford frame front, the curve that runs from hors to flat area behind radiator, and mount so the level of that curve is even with rails bur mounted outside rails like your first sketch? They could be cut a bit and attached to grill shell on inner aspect, but not fully faired in like talbot or Ala-Kart. Hmmm--Am I the first person to say "Talbot" and "Ala Kart" in same sentence??
This is the British Aluminium 'A' owned by Jim Pantal. More pictures on Martsrods.com and has been featured in several magazines. http://www.flatheadv8.freeserve.co.uk/martsframes.htm
throw some ice cream on it and you'd have Talbot Ala Mode... I think you may be missing the point - I think what Zach's aiming for is an A-bodied sports car with euro styling influences. No...not a dry laker, drag car or circle tracker, but a stringback glove kind of car built using shelf Ford bits and some American ingenuity. Tellyouwhut...if it showed up at a car show, I'd spend more time lookin' at it than a deuce-shelled AV8 with Guide lights - no offense to the guys who have that, BTW. Different is good - especially when a guy like Zach is exploring the possibility. He'll take 2 years to get a 'line' right - so if this concept will work, I'm sure he'll figure out a way...
Speaking of tractors the Ford Dexta and Super Dexta had the headlights in the grille. http://users.belgacom.net/klareputh...nden/images/Foto/Foto's2005/show-2005-008.jpg
God, I hope not. Going back to the original sketch. The roadster is a tradtional bellypanned, clean styled '28/'29. Its easy to lose the plot with the grille and end up with some complete over engineered, over styled monstrosity hanging off the front of the car. Its a very fine line between a 40's lakes car grille and 60's show car grille as proven in the original sketch. Thats why the Flint and Dye roadsters work because they have a tradtional track nose that has had its basic design tweaked to give them a more distinct look.
i "think" what im aiming for....is something "different"....that would have drawn influence from the period (in any part of the world) and could have been built in the late 40's.....and would fit in anywhere it went....hill climb's, dry lakes, road racing, street racing, bob's big boy something that wouldnt get made fun of in ANY bench racing session in 1949 a conglomeration of everything....all wrapped up into one we'll see what happens though as the project progresses....it could change path 100 times between now and the finish... im just gathering as many ideas as possible and also eliminating as many ideas as possible...to hopefully come up with something good hopefully in the next few days i'll have the body sprawled out in the garage and do some real 3 dimensional thinking, measuring, and mocking up if you base all of this in direct relativity to my library of inspiration at my house....theres a good chance it'll end up being a lakes racer....im just making an attempt to branch out some
Wow. Good luck. I think that is hands-down the most ambitious discription of a potential build I have ever heard.
funny...Was thinkin' Old Yeller, too. the issue is execution; old yeller was NOT a pretty car - by any stretch of the imagination. I can't visualize how Zach could get the proportions right using an A body - seems like 90% of the body would require massaging. Kevin's right - ambitious is an understatment.
Ambitious as all get out, but he does have a good eye, good imagination, and the ability to reorganize metal...mebbe he'll pull it off. And if he doesn't, I don't think he'll build anything that doesn't work.
I love the Pantal car. It's tough to hide the lights. I agree, with his car, you see them and they work visually... but they don't really stand out as out of place. I think the E&Js are always a good option, but not the look you're after. I think your "pods" could be cool, and with your design sensativity, I'm sure they would turn out great. They are a bit big in your sketch. I have a bike pic somewhere on my computer that could be helpful. The light on it is chrome with a grill over the lights that looks like an aerodynamic version of '36 Ford horn grilles. Since Mike at E&J won't return emails, we may go that route on our Bonneville car. That might be too new for you though. We have discussed this at length on our Bonneville car. The lights are necessary, so how do you make them work visually on a design that shouldn't have them in the first place?
Fully agree and didn't mean to imply otherwise. But gut feeling is it ends up with a more specific and focused direction than that last discription implys. Building a car to sell like this can really warp things quick it seems. Balancing your own taste with what's "marketable" gets rough in a hurry. I'm talking like Zach won't read this. Good luck man. Can't wait to see updates.
I just realized which bells that picture rang in my head besides the Edsel speedster...Mormon Meteor! That sucker, quite aside from being the size of your average loconotive, has TWO sets of faired lights! Shrinking it to Ford scale...losing one set of lights...maybe the starting point for a more American image, and one that would likely have been familiar to early rodders. The 1935 one, I think...havent tracked down the others just yet.
I really like the idea of the Pantal car... Hell, I just really like that car... I'm not a huge guy of E&J's, but I do have something in my head... Think of the Pantal car with side mounts. Get E&J's in even tighter - in fact, maybe even form reverse bubbles to get them in as tight as ya can to the nose (same level as the pantal car). Then, just make em removeable... Works in my head... In real life it might look dopey.
As over used as they may be, I'd use a set of teardrop Guides (without the parking lights and the longest taper I could find) I liked these because they are longer than most I've seen. The whole idea of of a track nose was aerodynamics in my opinion. I'd want the smallest frontal area and the teardrop shape says aerodynamics to me. I think that is why E&Js look so good with a track nose. Just lose the parking lights. You could paint the rings for the racing look. JMO
Are you thinking of a Street Roadster Bonneville car? Better check the rulebook again before you put some dinky lights on your car. I think the rules changed slightly this year.
I Definitely don't like miniature lights. This was at LA roadster show yesterday TP What's the hold up on building this? your thinking alot!
thanks for the input everyone i guess it is a bit of a large window to try to cover with it....and your right...it'll possibly fall back into one specific area...and thats really ok...might as well shoot for the stars for now though? i figure if its... flathead powered racey sleek low to the ground tight suspension quick steering safe 2 seats and shiny enough to attract girls then it'll fit the bill of what im after i finally got the "modern" 32 body out of the way last night and stuck on a rack in the basement. so in the next day or 2 i'll get the 28 body in and setting on some sort of chassis to start figuring what to do from there thanks alot for all the input everyone....its really helping immensly im starting to think that i should just get it on wheels....start making cardboard profile of different noses from the front and side....and im hoping the headlights will just fall into place ok time to go read hop-up....i mean...work???!!!
I thought I would put my 2 cents worth in . I just drew a blank Flint nose and put the auto union grille work in it.You could mount small aftermarket sealed beams on the frame .When you put the nose on , they are just hanging under there behind the headlight grilles. I couldn't quit thinking about this thread.
thanks cory! thats what i was trying to draw! i set the body on a stock frame last night and then it started storming pretty bad hopefully its not raining today so i can roll it outside and get a look at it! Zach
The Jalopy Journal
