Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

Charlie, Sure hope you would have the time to stop by to check out my toys. I'll hang on to you phone numbers.

Dave

 

There is a post {Huge Stash of Early Doane Spencer Pics}

It tells about the "Nerf bar" how it was used other than protection.
How is the seat, looks as though you have lots of room.
Waiting on your thought on paint after you have had a first hand view.

 

Charlie,

The "Celery Stalker" is a great build. Enjoy every mile you drive her!

Rick

 

OK I'll check it out. I guess I better bounce [no pun intended] the nerf bar idea off Jack; he may want to ring my neck....

Thanks Rick, I hope she is a great driver as well. I have to say it was pretty emotional seeing the car all together, plated and painted. Kind of an out of body or, deja vu, experience. It has existed so long in my imagination that it seemed kind of other-worldly to realize that the roadster really exists.

My plan is to document my launch date and first drive. I may try to record some audio and video. Not too much just a bit to replay when I'm too old to drive and sitting in a rocker.

If I can find a nicely assembled tomato red hot rod I'll park the Celery Stalk close by and get a "vegetable photo" for you...oops, I guess a tomato isn't really a vegetable...how about a carrot orange hot rod? Now that I think about it orange would look good against the celery green.

Yesterday I stumbled upon a HAMB thread regarding the subject of "Trophy Girls", it is a fascinating thread and a MUST read. Five stars, highly recommended.

I have a few more photos from the Montana visit, mostly shots of the cabin, which I'll post this week. 'Till then,

Cheers,

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Much better "nerf Bars" in the post you stumbled upon!

 

You can say that again brother...what a treat to see some of those old photos...marvelous on many levels... Nerf Bars indeed!

cheers,

trakrodsr

 

Folks

A quick note. I just spoke with 41 Dave who lives in the high desert North of the LA basin and not too far from the Willow Springs race track facility. Dave has been encouraging me to take the car to the Walt James Classic, a vintage dirt track car event. It seems that there is a small dirt oval at the Willow, and the weekend after Thanksgiving the organizers hold the Walt James Classic.

We have a tentative plan to get the track roadster ready in time for the Walt James event. Assuming the weather in Missoula cooperates, Jack will haul the roadster to Salt Lake City. I will fly into SLC from KC and meet my friend of 45 years, John Jordan, and his wife Pat. They live in Escondido CA and will drive to SLC in their pickup towing an empty car trailer.

If all goes well, Jack, John and I will meet in SLC, transfer the car to John's trailer and haul my track roadster back to John and Pat's. The day after Thanksgiving we'll haul the car to Willlow Springs for it's public "birthday".

At least that's the plan. Weather and unforeseen problems could foul things up, but we're going to give this a try.

As time grows close I'll be able to make a more reliable guess, but there's a 50:50 chance we'll be at Willow Springs. The engine has not been fired but Jack is closing in.

Wish us luck.

trakrodstr

 

Charlie, Good to have talked to you on the phone. Hope the weather gods will be kindly to us on Thanksgiving weekend. Always look forward to the Walt James Classic. Give us a shout if you need any help.

41 Dave

 

Escondido,Ca.

Been a long time, when lots of back roads there took a 17yr.old's mind back home to Louisiana.

In the big Camp P days / were the Drum of War was just a Dream! Then came the Nightmare's

So Charlie while you are out there on a Escondido back road. Just grab another gear
This one's for old lb+1 and a cheer!!

 

Hey LB+1, good to hear from you.

You are right there's lots of back roads north of Escondido and some of them lead to Oceanside and some to the backside of Camp P.

I took my childhood buddy to Camp P in 1965 to ship out to Vietnam, he came back shot up and was never the same after that. He couldn't deal with the nightmares and finally drank himself to death...what a waste.

I was a dogface and when I shipped out, there were over a hundred soldiers on the orders to report to Oakland Army Depot; only one GI had orders for Thailand. I was the one, so I never made it to Vietnam. How lucky is that? To this day I still shake my head and wonder how many of the GIs listed on those orders never made it back alive?

I'm glad you made it back to the world and are still hangin' in there. Not only do I promise to grab a gear for you....I promise to visit you in the TR, but it might not be 'till next summer or fall.

You take care.
charlie

 

HAMBers

No new photos... but great news.

Jack started the engine for the first time on Sunday. It only ran for about 30 seconds due to a problem with the starter gear. It seems that using the Wilcap tranny adapter and a "modern" Mopar mini-starter there can be interference problems that require a bit of machining on the "nose" of the starter.

Apparently what happened was that the interference was OK until the solenoid kicked in the starter gear, at which time the starter gear didn't retract. After a little whittin', all is now well with the starter.

Jack is waiting for a clear day to roll the roadster outside, start the engine and break in the cam. I guess there's a light dusting of snow on the ground right now.

He said the engine settled right down to a nice idle and no parts came flying off so it looks real good for a quick sprint to completion of the TR. I looked at my records and the engine rebuilding/blueprinting was completed in July of 1998! A wait of just over 11 years.

We are still planning on an appearance at the Walt James Classic. Now that the engine has successfully started and run. I'm raising my confidence level for taking possession of the car in time for the post-turkey day event at Willow Springs. I'm thinkin' that there's a 70% probability of success. I'm even thinkin' of making some motel reservations in Lancaster...

Hooray!

trakrodstr

 

Get Jack a EASY button!
I would settle for a sound clip.
Weather may end up being
the kicker - But I sure hope not.

 

WAITING!

Do I need to put in a call down here 2 Rev. Zombie's House Of VooDoo?

 

Hummm, a little good news and some bad news.<o>

</o> Jack continues to make progress on lots of the last minute details such as latch release cables, and chasing down tiny hydraulic leaks...that's the good news.<o>

</o> The bad news is that there is an unwelcome noise when the engine is running. There were no dramatics in starting the engine for the first time, but Jack immediately shut off the motor due to a noise that he was pretty sure was the starter gear not disengaging or releasing. He called the folks that made the engine/bell housing adapter and they said that yes on numerous occasions they have had customers report that the modern Mopar mini-starters sometimes interfered with their adapter resulting in the starter not aligning properly; the remedy was to simply do a bit of grinding on the "nose" of the starter, or cut if off if necessary. To make a long story short no amount of whittling on the starter housing made any difference.

Tomorrow or the next day Jack and a friend are going to pull start the car, without the starter being present. That will once and for all rule out/in the starter as the culprit.
<o></o><o></o>
Assuming the starter is not the problem, I vote for a weird exhaust leak. In any case the motor fires immediately every time it’s started; but obviously is not run more than a few seconds.<o>
</o><o></o>
Oh well, I’ll keep you posted. My optimism for attending the Walt James event at Willow Springs is fading a bit.<o>
</o><o></o>
More later<o></o>
<!--EndFragment-->

 

nice build the car came out cool to bad about the odd noise , hope it s nothing major

 

Thanks Captain, you and me both.

trakrodstr

 

Charlie, I am sure it will turn out to be something minor. You have the best working on it and problem should be resolved shortly. I am really looking forward to meeting you and checking out your Track Roadster. You got me all inspired on my "A" Coupe ! The days are rolling by fast !

41 Dave

 

I made the call 2 the Rev. his relply --------

John Jumper, Chili McIntosh, Buffalo Hump,
Jim Buckmark, Lone Waite, and now Charlie!

"Endeavor to Preserver"

 

LB+1

You have a very vivid imagination. By John Jumper do you refer to the 19th Century Seminole Chief? I found Chilly McIntosh on the web he was the commander of the Second Regiment of Creek Mounted Volunteers in 1862. Buffalo Hump was war chief of the Penateka band of the Comanche. I couldn't find a "real" Jim Buckmark; although the Browning firearms company uses a "buckmark" as its logo.

I'm not sure I can tie the shoe laces of these stoic men, the stakes for me are infinitely lower, at the end of the day it's just a hot rod, not my way of life.

I guess that Lone Waite was a fictional character in the movie Outlaw Josey Wales...right?

Are you Native American?

I did find this:

Endeavor to Perserver

“I’m an Indian alright but here in The Nations they call us
the civilized tribes. They call us civilized because we are easy to sneak up on.

White men have been sneaking up on us for years.
They sneaked up on us and they told us we wouldn’t be happy.
They told us we would be happy in The Nations.
So they took away our tribal lands and sent us here.
I had a fine woman and two sons but they all died on the Trail of Tears.

I wore a frock coat to Washington before The War.
We wore them because we belonged to the five civilized tribes.
We dressed ourselves up like Abraham Lincoln.

We got to see the secretary of the interior.
He said, “Boy, you boys sure look civilized.”
He congratulated us and he gave us medals for looking so civilized.

We told him about how our tribal lands had been stolen and how our humans were dying.

When we finished he shook our hands and said “Endeavor to preserver!!”
They stood us in a line John Jumper, Chili McIntosh, Buffalo Hump, Jim Buckmark, and me, I am Lone Waite.

The newspapers took our picture and said, “Indians vow to endeavor to preserver.”
We thought about for a long time, endeavor to preserver, and when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.”

Lone Waite, Indian chief - from “The Outlaw Jose Wales”

Endeavor to Perserver

 

"it's just a hot rod"

Blue eyed 1/16 Choctow

Stoic Men, They were!

Do you think Browing had old Jim stuffed?

One more thing - perhaps Jack needs to find
the "Wheel chock" and tell it the incantation
of not rolling is over?

 

HAMBers.

Well folks, I burned up lots of your time describing the TR and most of my narrative has been self-congratulatory. We have now hit a bump in the road to completion. The most surprising event is that the LOUD, scraping-type noise stopped completely and for no obvious reason. Let me point out here that the engine was blueprinted to stock specs about 10 years ago by a machine shop in Charleston SC. Jack had nothing to do with assembling the engine. The engine is mounted in the car and completely hooked up.

I won’t bore you with details that do not shed light on the issue. Jack was able to “pull” start the engine with the starter removed and no change in the mystery noise. Since the engine has no [mounted] fuel pump or water pump these are not possibilities. Jack carefully surveyed the running engine with a stethoscope and came to the conclusion that the noise is most prevalent at the lower rear corner of the block on the passenger side. However there is considerable ringing and resonance in a big hunk of metal so “localizing” the noise is not really possible, at least with a simple stethoscope.

After jacking up the car and positioning on axle stands Jack was able to get a good look inside the bellhousing using a bright light and small mirrors; turning the engine over by hand he did not observe any suspicious shiny markings, chips or evidence of interference between rotating parts.

Jack did phone me and let me listen to the noise. It was REALLY loud and immediately I envisioned a piece of heavy sheet metal scrapping against a wheel or some rotating device. We discussed things like a baffle in the oil pan vibrating at a resonant frequency of the engine, but the noise does not fade in and out as a function of engine vibration (throttle). Also, the baffles are “buried” in engine oil, so we don’t think the oil pan is a good suspect. We thought that the timing gear/chain may be scrapping on the inner face of the alum timing cover, but the noise did not diminish with time, as would be expected if the steel gear/chain was slowly removing the interfering aluminum. We do have a spare distributor to try on the engine, but now that the noise has stopped we can’t test anything.

As you might expect Jack was fit to be tied. He is an extremely understated man who does not swear and when, in a frustrated voice, he explained that the noise really had him “pissed off” I knew he was truly upset. We were both working hard to get the roadster ready for its maiden trip to the Walt James Classic at Willow Springs raceway in SoCal. Those of you who have been following this thread may know that 41 Dave, a stalwart HAMBer, had offered to help us get the roadster to Willow Springs.

After an hour of discussing possibilities I made the decision to cut bait on debuting the car at the Walt James. I really hated to give up this goal, but it’s the only reasonable decision. My buddy John, who was to haul the roadster from Salt Lake City to Willow Spring, and I will still try to attend the Walt James event, but without the roadster.

I also asked Jack to stop working on the noise issue and go ahead and finish the tiny details, or to work on something other than the roadster. So Jack is taking hard won time out. After all, it’s not as if this has been a speedy project.

From Jack’s perspective the big picture is that he built and/or assemble the car except for the engine and he wants to deliver a sparkling clean, no excuses, hot rod. If he has to disconnect all the wiring and plumbing and pull the engine there are certain to be nicks and scratches along the way. Similarly, the engine has been carefully detailed and disassembling the engine will create paint chips and scratches etc. So we are at a kind of impasse as to how to proceed.

Even dropping the transmission and removing the bell housing will create some inadvertent ouchees and nicks; but would allow final elimination of the clutch assembly, flywheel, throw-out bearing as a source of noise. Dropping the oil pan requires removal of the lower parallel bars. This would permit examining the pan and lower rotating assembly to some extent, also the oil pump and intermediate shaft could be inspected…beyond this it may well be that the effort/negatives of pulling the engine for teardown may not be justified. In other words it may be better to just drive the roadster and let what happens…happen. If a part eventually fails then I’ll know what caused the noise (I guess).

To summarize we may be at a point where continued surgery on the patient may cause more harm than good.

The practical result is that there won’t be any major efforts made for a few weeks. Thus raising the possibility that I’ll attend some of the early events in Southern Calif in 2010. We’ll see. I tried to contact the HAMBer who is helping to select/organize some member’s cars for display at the GNRS, but I did not hear back; if any of you HAMBers know the score, please put in a word for my roadster.

I had hoped to write a story about the roadster’s debut at the Walt James, but it’s not to be, I feel kind of sheepish about the engine noise problem. On the other hand this is what hot rods are really like and no matter how hard you plan things Murphy will raise his ugly head…

Trakrodstr

 

Drop the pan and inspect. Pull the valley cover and do the same. Prob some long forgotton tool in there!

 

Tman

Yeah, I thought about the valley cover, it's not too bad to get to. We'll definitely give that a look since it is easy to accomplish; but the noise isn't in the right place. The pan may be a better bet.

 

Charlie, Thanks so much for the phone call. I was just about to arrive at another HAMBers house down the hill to pick up an "A" Motor and trans for my Dodge bodied "T" framed Modified. Just love to collect these parts !
It is probably good that you are giving Jack some time off. Things always seem to turn for worse if they are rushed into.
Looking forward to meeting you and your friend for the Walt James Classic. Walt had passed away earlier this year. Willow Spring is sponsoring a Dinner Sat evening for all who attend the Classic that day. Looking forward to meeting some of Walt's friends. I am sure they will have displays of his history.
Hopefully the weather gods will bring us nice weather that day.

Talk to you again soon.

41 Dave

 

Fellow HAMBers,

This has been the longest dry spell since I began this thread. The news is mostly good.

The “engine” noise was the Dodge flywheel ring gear interfering with mounting bolt bosses on the inside of the Chevy alum bellhousing. Jack used a dye grinder to remove the necessary aluminum and all is well with the “engine” noise. The cam has been broken in and the engine starts immediately and has great throttle response. The initial 12 quarts of oil (!) were drained and replaced with more standard SAE 30 weight plus a zinc additive. I’m not sure what kind of oil I’ll be running once the roadster is on the road; most likely a synthetic oil with GM zinc additive.

The remote engine water pump is leaking and failing after zero miles (see yellow arrow in the first photo). [There are better views in some of the earlier photos] As a consequence of this failure we have gone back to the drawing board. I bought the afflicted pump over 6 years ago, and since then a number of better products have emerged. After lots of net surfing and phone calls we have chosen to replace the defective water pump with a new generation Stewart water pump (EMP Stewart Components). The Stewart pump is also a remote device that will be mounted in the same spot; that is, not mounted on the engine, but on a dedicated bracket that allows the plumbing to work with the water manifold that Jack built. The water pump deal is no big thing but it’s good that it failed while Jack still has the car so he can solve the problem properly.

The new photos aren’t too exciting, but they are new as I just received the files from Jack. The first photo shows the spacer that Jack fabricated so that I could use the ignition wire covers with the thicker modern style conductors. He trimmed the Hemi boots so that they would fit inside the spacer. You may be able to see the script embossed in the valve cover (Super Red Ram); right now there is no lettering, but Jack had a stencil made so that I can paint the script so the letters will pop out a bit…I haven’t decided on what color(s) to use. Any suggestions? Since the word “Red” is in the script I will probably paint the letters red with a contrasting pin stripped border.

The second photo shows the nickel trim strip below the windshield this is the only brightwork on the car that is simply decorative.

The next two photos show the small “racing” style battery, which fits perfectly in the cavity on the passenger side of the trunk floor. Jack also ordered the manufacturer’s tray/clamping assembly and it worked out very nicely. There is an electrical cut-off switch as well. The battery isn’t much bigger than an old-style cigar box.

Next, we see the trunk latch and release cable, and the pop-up spring that Jack fabricated.

The next two photos show the new front turn indicator lights. Jack began with brushed stainless steel bathroom trim pieces from the Home Depot for housings; he also bought two amber LED arrays that fit inside the housing and fabricated a trim ring/retainer and then wired the suckers up. I wish we didn’t have to add more gizmos to the front of the track roadster; however these are relatively unobtrusive and more or less disappear beneath the headlight unless one is looking directly from the front. Although the LED arrays are small they are super bright.

The last photo shows the removable armrest. It is fastened/located by pins and sockets and can be removed by lifting straight up. Since this photo was taken the armrest has been upholstered. There is a matching “center” armrest for the driver only, which is not shown.

The roadster is dusty because Jack has driven it up and down his gravel driveway and it stops and steers. The next hurdle is winter weather in Montana….The tentative plan is to repeat our earlier attempt to meet in Salt Lake City, transfer the car from Jack’s trailer to my buddy John’s rig and haul it to the San Diego area. I am hoping that this will occur in late January or early February. In any case, baring tragedy the roadster will definitely appear at the LA Roadster Show in June.

Well that’s about it for now.

Trakrodstr

PS
Fellow HAMBer, 41 Dave, my buddy John and I had a great time at the Walt James Classic at Willow Springs. Wonderful cars, nice folks and cool swap meet stuff. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!

PPS
Oooops, when I upload the photos, one of them popped out of order....sorry.

 

Charlie, It was nothing but good news you had to share. Sounds like TR is getting broken in and will shortly be ready for the highway.
Charlie thanks so much to you and John for celebrating the 17th Annual Walt James Classic with me. The old racers were sounding like they were ready to race. Sure liked that Offy powered Modified that the guy was running up and down the road to the track. Nothing like the sound of an Offy barking to life !
Well hope you two guys have a Great Christmas and an Excellent New Years.

41 Dave

 

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't see the fine paint job and all of that plating doing any good. If I owned it, no amount of paint would hold up to me driving it like a psycho down every gravel road I can find at the maximum speed allowed by physics. It really does look like a kick in the pants to drive.

 

Converse,

Nothing at all rude about your opinion. I hope your prediction about driveability is absolutely correct. I haven't driven it yet, but I promise you that I certainly will. Dirt roads and all. If I did my homework right it should be really easy to take care of and keep looking decent. The plan has always been to drive the hell out of the roadster.

Thanks for the comment and the perspective.

Trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Dave,

How right you are about the Offy. I have to admit that my favorite was the midget with the little Daimler Hemi...what a cool car.

Thanks again for bringing the Walt James event to my attention. Both John and I had a gas.

Keep those 41's goin'

Charlie

 

Charlie,

Glad to hear the teething troubles were not too serious. The desire to finally get behind the wheel after so many years must be incredible.

Happy Healeydays,