Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

Wow.... it just keeps getting better -- thank you!!

 

I bet a 315 2 door dodge was faster than 56 fi corvette , considering chevy didn't make build an fi vette until 57
the 56 has a 265 as well
nice work on the chassis

 

OOOPS, I stand corrected. Perhaps it was the 2x4bbl engine. In my files I have magizines from the period with road tests. The Dodge did/does have a bigger engine, but all 1956 D500 Dodges were Chryslers chassis under the sheet metal. Chrysler 12in brakes, huge universals and drive shaft, heavy frame, springs, sway bars etc. My guess is that the cubic inch to weight ratio was pretty similar between the two cars.

Of course after the first few of blocks in a drag race the Corvette would blow past the Dodge, which has the aerodynamics of a brick.

 

Trakrodstr,
That is exactly the right answer!!!

Rex

 

WOW!!!!
Later,
Dick

 

“Boyle Special” Was one of the first model car kit's I put together. Monogram, I think
was the manufacture. I think I was 10. That would have been 1956.

I find interesting the time line of the engine with the torsion bar's. 1957 was the first
year for Dodge to use them.

Will the car be a two seater? I have a lot of other questions, but unlike HEBE GB,
I find the tits are nice and I want to see more.

 

Can't wait to see the whole thing! Nice work!
What would it take to crack the code on the "Pickle of the Nickle"....................
I am crazy about finishes

 

LB+1

You had good taste as a kid, do you still have the model? I liked assembling kits, but I wasn't very good, too little patience.

The roadster is a two seater. From the firewall back it is clearly recognizable as a 29 Ford Roadster, but there have been extensive mods. I plan to post some photos of the body next weekend....

As you can guess I am a bit of a Mopar fan. My parents owned several torsion bar Dodges from 57 to 68. However the real motivation for the present suspension layout was seeing a Track Roadster built by Greg Peek about...guess what?...14 years ago. Greg's car was written up in Street Rodder and I immediately fell in love with the front suspension. My track roadster's suspension is a direct descendant of the layout on Greg's car.

When I saw the photo's of Greg's car I tracked him down in Denver and gave him a call. One of my first questions to Greg was to ask whether he was a fan of Harry Miller's cars, because the front of his (Greg) car reminded me of the rear wheel drive Millers. Greg's reply was..."I have Mark Dee's biography of Miller open on my desk as we speak." Whoa, that was a Twilight Zone moment. Greg gave me lots of advice and encouragement over the ensuing years. Perhaps Greg's most important contribution was to introduce me to the builder/fabricator/designer, Jack Presse, at the Street Rod Place, which was then located in Denver. Jack does not have a web page or email, but he has a new shop in Stevensville, MT. If anyone is interested, I can forward Jack's phone number.

BTY, there is a low res photo of Greg Peek's track roadster at his home page:

http://www.atrackroadster.com/

 

Here are two photos I received today. These update earlier images. There's still some work to do on the injectors, but most of the wiring is complete.

 

To bad that you don't have the car complete now. Pete & Jake's open house and show is out in Peculiar this saturday. Would be a good place for a debut.

 

When do we get to see the whole car?

 

OK, glad you like the coating and plating. As I stated earlier, the bright work was all nickle plated. Some items were further treated chemically to give the finish a bronzed appearance. The company that did this work does cars, bikes and architectural hardware. See their Web page at:

http://www.dipitnow.com/

 

26T

The stainless steel, 12point, small flange bolts were purchased from "Totally Stainless" [ http://www.totallystainless.com/ ]; my understanding it that the bolts are manufactured by ARP [ http://www.arp-bolts.com/ ]. Totally Stainless has a nice web site with good explanations for rodders. In each case the 12 pt fastener is an American Standard thread size ordered from the Totally Stainless catalog, which you can download.

In a few case there are some really rare/weird titanium fasteners bought on ebay years ago. I would just search the auctions for interesting looking fasteners, some of which were used in this project and some of which were not (still stored in jars). In many cases the titanium fasteners are NOS military and NASA items and were quite cheap. Unfortunately you usually can't always go to ebay and find a titanium fastener that meets your specific need. In recent years the prices have really gone up.

The electrical wire you have seen so far is either 14 or 16 gauge...but it is not automotive wire. This is a higher quality wire typically found on medical devices and so forth. There are more strands per wire; further, the vinyl insulation is thinner, better quality and more flexible. Jack was a radioman in the Navy and knows his wire. According to him this type of wire is far easier to work with than standard automotive wire. I don't have any specific company or vendor to recommend.

I hope this helps

Trakrodstr

 

I think some were I do still have it or part of it. If I find it in the near future, I will send
a shot of it.

Are or were you able to have hands on some of the build?
Waiting for this length of time is commitment for sure!

 

I knew it! That's awesome. Thanks for taking the time.

 

Wow. Tremendous attention to detail and build quality. Can't wait to see it finished.

 

Thanks for the question LB+1.

***********************************************

What LB-1 is politely asking, is whether I did any “real” hands-on work.

The short answer is yes, a little…very little. I conceptualized the car and did quite a bit of “design” work and of course, planning. As I described briefly in my profile, during my teens my buddies and I built street rods, swapped engines, rebuilt trannys and so forth. Southern California was a car guy’s paradise in the 60s. My profession pretty much required that I shelve car stuff for many years. Fifteen years ago I decided to finally get with the program. The result is the present track roadster project. I did some of the engine work, and as you will see (later) I designed the gauge faces, a logo/badge and spent countless hours networking and searching for car parts and design elements. I visited museums, searched the Internet and scoured libraries to make sure I got the look I wanted.

The following rhetorical question comes up in the letters to the Editor of just about every issue of Hot Rod, Street Rodder, Jalopy Journal and so forth…is someone who doesn’t build his/her own car a real hot rodder? In a sense the question is…are those who pay others to do the hands-on work automotive philistines?
_______________________
philistine
noun
DEFINITION: a person who is hostile or indifferent to a particular culture or art form, or who has no understanding of them.
_______________________

No one is going to settle this argument anytime soon. My opinion is that some folks have the time and talent to construct their own car projects and others do not; but you don’t have to be able to write a great song to love music; and you don’t have to be a fabricator/designer/builder to love cars. I may wish I had the skill and the talent to build my track roadster, but I didn’t — nevertheless, it’s here in the real world and it’s a going to be a fantastic hot rod. 'enuf said.

 

I Love it! See the build is more than - TIT'S

 

I 2nd that...If you don't want to show the whole car then stop the tease or are you just wanting a pat on the back?

 

Here is a pair of before and after views.

The first photo (A) is of a mock-up Jack made in 2002 using, unmolested, 29 sheet metal (Brookville) on 32 rails. This version show a set of assorted wheels and tires, the engine is correct.

The second image (B) is five years later (2007). This too is a photo of a static mock-up. The wheels are 36 Dodge steel artillery wheels, which have been rebuilt with modern rims. The fronts are 16x4 the rears are 16x6. The tires are Coker bias ply tires, 5.50x16 and 7.50x16. The windshield post is real, as is the roll bar. While the windshield post may look too high and too vertical, this arrangement will make for minimal driver wind buffeting and will be comfortable to drive. The more vertical windshield posts also make for easier ingress and egress.

In the case of the stock body (Photo A) the yellow arrow point out a sight line that runs from the top of the quarter panels to an imaginary “nose” point. The green arrow runs from the base of the windshield post to the nose point. The angle between the two arrows shows the problem — how do you design a handsome hood line that tapers gracefully to the track nose without having a large, high, bulbous, nose; or if you want a small elegant nose you will have to live with a very sharply dropping hood line. Either choice would look unacceptable. Note how the steep angle of the green arrow diverges from the axis of the yellow arrow.

There is a host of subtle modifications that Jack Presse made to give the roadster in Photo B its cool stance and nice lines. The colored arrows in the 2007 image show that Jack masterfully solved the design problem. Note that, as above, the green arrow connects the base of the windshield posts to the nose point, and the yellow arrow runs from the same point on the upper quarter panel to the nose point.

Now…compare the relationship of arrows. In sharp contrast the to the stock sheet metal, Photo A, the corresponding arrows in Photo B are almost parallel…after Jack’s re-sculpturing. The result is that the new lines are much more graceful. There’s lots going on with Jack’s modifications but the changes are subtle; the modified body looks like the sheet metal could have come from the Ford factory. For aficionados of metal work, figuring out exactly what changes Jack made should be an interesting exercise.

Comments or question are welcome.

 

Very nice.......Rich

 

Don't listen to the criticism about showing too little. Your showing more than 99% of the hambers do. I check this thread every day. Again nicely done!

 

Man, I cannot wait to see this completed! Thanks for the extra info and descriptions!

 

DASH BOARDS AND COCKPITS

I like the instrument cowlings and cockpits of the 30s Indy cars, so I asked Jack Presse to design an instrument panel centered on the driver with space for a large tach in the middle of the gauge array. I also wanted a speedo/odo, a voltmeter, oil pressure gauge, water temp and gas gauge. What you see is the result of Jack’s imagination. The center position will hold a large 8 inch tach that I designed using fonts and logos from an early 30s Dodge Speedo. I scanned the old gauge face at hi res and then edited and touched up flaws using Photoshop/Illustrator. The other gauges are modern instruments with the same fonts and logos printed in a smaller format. I really recommend this idea to all the readers; it is an inexpensive way to stamp your personality on the interior of your car.

Search ebay or HAMB for an old instrument face you like. It doesn’t matter if the gauge works. Scan the graphics and then tidy up the flaws in Photoshop. You can then clone the fonts and “make” whatever gauges you wish. There are plenty of small companies who will print your final artwork on a clean gauge face. Thus you could buy an inexpensive set of generic gauges, disassemble, remove the factory graphics and then print your personal gauge design. Similarly, you could use an old magazine ad or a sales brochure to clone the fonts and logo. I found a fantastic old Dodge Brothers logo that was embossed on a printer’s block used in the 20s for newspaper ads. There are typically hundreds of printer’s blocks for sale/auction on ebay, I have seen logos for many old car makes.

The next photo shows the instrument cowling in place. You can also see the struts and gussets that locate the steering column. The bright blue gizmo is a small reduction gear that slows the steering ratio; the Schroder sprint car box is WAY too fast for the street.

The doorframe and windshield post area is a real mess at this point, with angles and sheet metal going in about twenty directions. This all has to be sorted-out, re-configured and made to look as “stock” as possible. In future photos you will be able to determine whether Jack succeeded.

Note that the uppermost point on the instrument cowling reaches higher than the top of the windshield header. The floorboard is visible, as is some of the tranny tunnel. At the lower end of the steering column is a bowl to house the steering gear box. The bowl protrudes into the engine compartment slightly. Some of the titanium NASA fasteners are visible in the instrument panel where it attaches to the cowling.

The next photo from the passenger side shows a better view of the floorboard; you can also see the gas and brake pedals; the clutch pedal is partially hidden. The roasdster will have a really spacious, deep, glove box, which will come in handy. Model As are really small cars. The door to the glove box is a piece of alum plate trimmed and radiused to have an old timey appearance (we hope). To some extent the glove box door shape is a mirror image of the instrument cowling.

Thanks to all for the kind comments.

Trakrodstr

 

Exhaust system details

Here’s a close up of a heat shield Jack Presse made to protect the driver/passenger’s legs when getting out of the roadster. The exhaust pipes run along the outer frame rail and are perfectly positioned to make roasted leg of rodder. The starting material is stainless steel woven mesh on 1/4 inch centers. I have the wire gauge somewhere in my records and will post that piece of info later.

Jack formed the wire mesh, and the stainless rod, separately, on a cast iron plumbing pipe, and then welded the two pieces together. You can see the brackets Jack made to mount the heat shield to the frame — so as not to conduct heat from the exhaust pipe. One of my 40 (?) year old titanium fasteners is used to mount the shield to the brackets. I estimate the fasteners are that old because they are American Standard threads and sizes, I’m not sure when the DOD and NASA went to the metric system, but it had to be decades ago. By the way you can also see the riser for the seat cushion (arrow). This is the passenger side view.

The second photo shows a wider view; the shape of the exhaust tip is yet to be determined, but will most likely direct the exhaust down and away from the car. The mufflers are inside the pipe.

The third photos shows a close look at the driver’s side header. There are several individuals around the US who sell Dodge hemi exhaust flanges. Mopar hemi heads are not made in right/left configurations (they are not mirror images), so only one pattern is required for both heads. I think Jack did a great job of making the headers look like old timey pieces from the 50s. As mentioned earlier in this project description, the pipes were nickel plated, then dipped in a chemical bath for a slight “bronzing” effect.

I bought the old racing boat oil pan about 13 years ago as part of a pile of parts dating from the early 60s. The owners had blown an engine and, I guess, thrown in the towel. I will devote a section on Jack’s oil pan mods, and our decision to install an oil accumulator as part of the lubrication system, in a future write-up. The wires dangling under the frame rail in the middle photo is part of the oil accumulator system (Accusump).

 

Nice bit of work, Look forward to the finished car pics.

 

Cool thread. I can't believe I haven't seen this one until now. I've got to stop hidding out under rocks.

 

This is the Best Thread!!!

-Saint

 

Thanks to langy (UK), Hot Rod Michelle and ST. 515 (the Lone Star State). It's good to hear from you folks. I had hoped that I would reach some female rodders and Hot Rod Michelle is my first (known) lady correspondent.

More later, if I have time...and where appropriate...Happy Mother's Day.

 

More info on the interior of the roadster:

The first photo shows the partially finished floor pan. Here Jack is fabricating the transmission tunnel. The Tremec five speed has a 0.75 overdriven fifth gear; I’m running a standard early Ford 3:90 ring and pinion in the Halibrand quick change differential; thus, in fifth gear the final drive ratio will be 2:87, which is a pretty good cruzin’ gear. For traditional hot rod enthusiasts it is worth noting the position of the gear selector (yellow arrow). This T5 transmission was ordered with a kit that allows the gear selector to be in the forward most position. The white arrows point out a forward, middle and rear gear selector position. The forward position will allow use of a longer “goose neck” style shift lever, which will to look more like the traditional hot rods, which had shorter transmissions with the gear selectors mounted well-forward.

The green arrow points to a door hinge. This is the only significant “ooops” Jack and I made during the project (so far). The plan was always to construct the car with “suicide” style door hinges (so-called, because if the door opens accidentally, while moving, the air stream pushes the door open and is/was, thus, considered dangerous). Beyond the early tough guy look suicide doors do have advantages; one being that the door swings back in such a way that it is easier for a tall driver to enter the car (sit in the driver’s seat). I am fairly tall (6’ 3”) and a Model A has less room that a Miata, for example. Unfortunately the “hidden’ hinges Jack built would only open about 2/3 of the way (2/3s of 90 degrees from the closed position). After trying on the car for size about two years ago, we both agreed on plan B — start over with outside hinges that would allow the door to open completely (a little past 90 degrees). This was a good decision, as it is now much easier to swing my feet (big) into the car. This may sound like a small thing, but according to Jack, every little impediment to using your hot rod means that you will use it less than otherwise. If the rod is user friendly and fun to drive it will be driven often.

I really like the middle photo, it’s one of my favorites. This shows the guts of a car, which to me is the most fascinating part of car anatomy. I mentioned to Jack that I wish I could leave the car like this so all the gearheads could appreciate his artistry. For the old farts in the HAMB group, I kidded Jack that his dash and steering column support structures looked like a Maserati type 61, which was/is known as a “birdcage” Maserati [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maserati_Birdcage ].

One of the forward bars (white arrow) supporting the steering column also serves as the pivot point for the swing style pedals (i.e., not through-the-floor style foot pedals). We both agreed that swing pedals were the only way to go due to my big feet and long legs. When cruising along the highway (I can’t wait!) I can tuck my feet behind the pedals and gain the max amount of legroom possible. This photo also shows a pretty good view of the Schroeder sprint car steering gearbox and the pitman arm shaft (yellow arrow) running toward the driver’s side cowling. The piano hinge for the glove box door is present (green arrow). The end of the steering column is splined for a quick-release steering wheel (white arrowhead; more on this later).

The third photo is a view from the passenger’s side looking toward the steering column. The green arrow shows the steering gearbox, the yellow arrow the accelerator pedal and the double white arrows show the beefy struts and gussets jack engineered to support the column. As mentioned earlier the blue reduction gear slows the ultra-fast sprint car steering ratio.