Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

Check this for buffing out those pesky, ugly sidewall markings.....
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378955&highlight=sidewall

What exactly is the tire make and sizes in radial form that you are using?

 

Charlie, thanks for the new photos - your car is turning out great!

My guess is these--
http://store.coker.com/750r16-coker-classic-blackwall-tire.html
http://store.coker.com/550r16-coker-classic-blackwall-tire.html

I'm considering using them on my Roadster project, also.

 

what a stunning car! congratulations on your vision, motivation and decision making. i bet it was worth the long wait.
i love the colour. maybe if it was black it would be a little too annonymous and those amazing details might just get passed by.
well done.....jick

 

Malcom

Correct you are...

 

I thought they looked like Excelsiors. I did a thread about them last year and the consensus is that they work great but only last for 5000 miles or so. I am torn about the tires for my Tudor.

 

Here is that thread, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288901&highlight=excelsior

Kirk! posted the same thing recently.

 

Thanks, those certainly have the look.....save my pennies.

 

I really like your roadster, one thing I noticed on your car that I had the same problem with. My hood would not transition in a relaxed fit without compound forming it to the nose. I thought I could get away with a flat hood but it just won't work. The way Frank Kurtis did this is what gave his cars the beautiful shape. Bring the car to Willow Springs the day after Thanksgiving and give it a run around the track. That experience is worth 1000 car show trophys. Keep up the good work.
Gary

 

Greeno,

I say this with trepidation, but according to Jack the hood will fit correctly with a "correct" gap and shape once it gets back from its final (I HOPE!) fitting. We'll see.

Your suggestion regarding Willow Springs sounds great. I haven't been there for over 20 years...it's worth a thought. Under what sanctioning body could I run the roadster on the track?

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Thanks guys, I'll definitely give it a shot.

 

The links are to two different tires. One is the classic bias while the other is the racing tire.

 

hasty,

Well, once I recover from this roadster project, I hope to retire in the next 3 to 4 years...but with the economy in the tank...


I think, my hands-on project will be a Hilman Imp. Did you know that the English made MOPARs in the 60s? [Chrysler UK bought the Rootes Group]

In the US the few that were imported were marketed as Sunbeam Imps but the rest of the world called them Hillmans. The gearheads from the UK, Australia, New Zeland, Belgum and Scandanavia (Finland) will know about the Imp, but in this country the cars are virtually unknown.

The Imp was designed to be a competitor of the original BMC Mini. They are cute little sedans, that look like a 3/4 sized Corvair. Rear engine, RWD. The motor are based on a famous English engine that was used extensively in Formula Junior racing in Europe, the Coventry Climax. Originally the engine was designed as a protable water pump engine for fire fighting and was later adaped for automobile use. Dan, HIMSELF, Gurney used the Coventry Climax in some of his early cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillman_Imp

Can you dig a thundering 52 cu in Mopar Muscle Car? Petty Blue in color?

I have a very soft spot in my automotive heart for tiny cars. My first car was a Morris Minor...ahh...one's first love...

Based on the web, it seems that Imps are still used in ice racing in Scandanavia and in vintage classes in the UK...right UK, Aus and NZ guys?

So hasty, what do you think of this as a project? If I screw it up there's not much lost.

Trakrodstr

 

trakrodstr posted links to the tires that are currently on the car -- Excelsiors.

He mentioned a set of radials that he'll use as 'touring' tires on a different set of wheels. Those are the tires I posted links to:
http://store.coker.com/750r16-coker-...wall-tire.html
http://store.coker.com/550r16-coker-...wall-tire.html

They are not bias plies, but have a good resemblance to them.

 

Trakrodstr,

I'm very impressed with the roadster. It is a shame you didn't follow through with the idea of installing a Hemi 6 as you stated in an earlier post although the Hemi in there now is done very tastefully. Congratulations.

As for the Imp you are considering probably one of the first questions are, why this car? As you stated it was a direct challenger to the Mini but not in this country. I personally have not seen the Imp on Australian racetracks. Having said that i admire the person who thinks outside the box.

Kurtis.

 

In the eary 1970s, I was vice-president of our university sports car club. This was basically a cover to get the school to let us use our huge university parking lot as an auto-x site. One regular competitor worked for an insurance company. They would buy him a car and he had to pay for the upgrades. He started with a 68 Z/28, then moved on to a BMW 2002 that he picked up in Germany from Alpina with all the mods Last car I remember him driving before the neighbors kicked us out for making too much noise, was a highly modded Imp with dual Webers. That car screamed and handled. Good luck with your build.

BTW, I really like the green on the track roadster. How about painting a wild-eyed piece of celery on the side and call it the "Celery Stalker"?

 

HAMBers,

Just so we are all on the same page:

We have been speaking of TWO different sets of tires, both of which, for better or worse, are sold by Coker Tire.

1) The photos posted recently with the 36 Dodge artillery style wheels are mounted with Excelsior vintage racing V speed rated BIAS ply tires in the sizes 5.50x16 and 7.50x16, the aspect ratio [I think] is 80 profile.

2) Not shown, but available from Coker is their proprietary line of RADIAL tires in the tall skinny 100 aspect ratio [just as tall as the carcass is wide]. These are thus 5.50R 16 and 750R 16.

These choice were essentially forced on me/us as they are the only AUTOMOBILE [not truck/commercial] tires in such sizes. Thus, once one decides to use 16 inch wheels AND tall skinny tires [no rubber bands] there are precious few choices. Some of the above tire sizes are available in Europe and the UK under the brands Dunlop, Avon and Blockey tires [tyres], but the price is about the same as the Coker products [translation: $@Q$$!! expensive].

Some will ask, why not use easily found, relatively cheap SUV/light truck, tires? The short and important answer is UNSPRUNG MASS. Some automotive suspension engineers claim that reduction of one pound of unsprung mass is equivlant to seven pounds of sprung mass in terms of vehicle dynamics. That is why F1 engineers reduce every milligram of mass they can when designing their hubs, wheels and brakes.

There is a company that adds wide white wall rubber to existing commercial radial tires. If you call and ask if their 16 inch tires, for street rods and restored cars, are SUV or automotive tires the answer is the former. Some SUV/truck tires are twice as heavy as an automotive tire in the same size (50lbs instead of 25lbs...hummm... 50 minus 25=25; and 25x7=175lbs; times 4 for each tire =700lbs...everyone who wants to add 700lbs to their car's suspension load hold up their hands.

I have been mystified for decades why the rodding press doesn't explain the importance of unsprung weight in their thousands of articles about aftermarket wheels and hot rod suspensions....but then I realized that most of the aftermarket wheels ["mags"] are heavier than the OEM wheel being replaced.... and since a large part of the the magazines advertising $$$ are generated by ads for wheels....

Some of the "alloy" aftermarket wheels for SUV are waaayyyyy too heavy for the OEM suspensions. Imagine a big heavy wheel and tire swinging around in 3D space [after a bad bump] now imagine a dampener [shock] that has to control this mass...now imagine adding a significant amount of additional mass...the inertia goes up VERY fast.

Whew, I glad I finally got that pet-peeve off my chest...

Anyway, I have scoured the web for light, tall 16in tires and they are rare as hen's teeth. Consequently, I arrived at the tires listed above.

In a relatively small, light, car like my 29-based roadster the suspension is not designed for massive unsprung weight. So with relatively light wheels and tires my TR will behave reasonably well when passing over ruts, potholes and RR tracks...i.e., the roadster won't go bouncing down the street, until the poor old shocks can finally dampen the oscillations.

I do not know for sure, but I will bet a donut that the drum brake, steel wheel and tall skinny tire assembly on my roadster is lighter than disk brake, alum wheel, low aspect ratio tire assemblies on MANY street rods...anyone wanna bet? It would be fun to find out which is lighter.

Sorry about the sermon...

Trakrodstr

 

What can one say that hasn't already been said about your beautiful rod. It's just amazing. I'm sure it's some pretty sweet wine after so many years.
They don't get anymore perfect or "right on the money".
Two huge thumbs up!!

 

HealeyRick,

OK you design the graphics and we can have a removable vinyl celery stalk applique for the side...that'll really confuse the masses. Now that you mention it I guess I can claim that my roadster is part of the "green" movement.

What's powering your Healey?

trakrodstr

 

Seesko,

Man you kind of make me choke-up a bit. I really appreciate you taking the time to pass on your very welcome thoughts. As I have said earlier, my goal was to help create a car that the true, knowledgable, aficionado will appreciate. I will pass your kind words along to Jack Presse.

Cheers,

PS hi to Pancho
trakrodstr

 

I'm a rodder but an Artist at heart too. The two seem to go together.
I'm want to start on a ground Pick-up roadster. Scratch build as much as i can. Builds like your's are very encouraging. Good luck with your car. I might have to look you up next time I go down to Wichita.
Take care.
Mark

 

Thank you Trakrodstr,

I remember Imps. A friend's mother used to collect us from school in one. Quite a change from your elegant roadster! I did not know that the Imp engine was based on the Coventry Climax though. The latter day equivalent
is of course the superbike engine. If you like small cars with efficient engines you might like:
zcars.org.uk
Good luck with the project!

 

Small Block Ford. Here's a link to my build: http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,8264

 

The WRA runs that vintage program. You just pay 25.00 and it's good for 2 days running.
Gary

 

Nerf Bars?

 

I agree with you on tires. I am searching high and low for something I can get off the shelf. If not I may end up with of the two lines of Cokers listed. All I want is someone to put about 10,000 miles on a set of each and tell me they hold up and don't 'splode like the other Cokers guys have had issues with.

 

LB+1

As you can imagine Jack and I discussed nerf bars at length. For cost reasons I decided that if I really want nerf bars, which most real track roadsters had, then I could add them later. This project has taken on a life of its own and the "closing costs" are pretty substantial.

So for the present time there will be no nerf bars, but suggestions for the future are welcome.

trakrodstr

 

Tman,

I don't know when you plan to put your rod on the open road, but it may be that I will be able to provide feedback before you have to purchase tires.

I can tell you that due to the expense of the Coker tires I wlll not be driving aggressively. Also, my roadster is relatively light and should be easy on tires. I am hoping that the radial tires are more functional for everyday use so that I will not be tempted to use the bias ply tires, which are more expensive. In terms of appearance there is no contest...the Excelsior V-rated tires look very cool.

I will use my Halibrands for the radial tires; in doing so I hope that the vintage kidney bean wheels will add some interest to make up for the plain vanilla radial tires.

trakrodstr

 

Trakrodstr, Man, I can really appreciate your patience to have stayed with this project for 14 years ! My own projects are not as elaborate as yours but sure do take time to get completed. I hope you enjoy this car to the fullest when it is on the road.

41 Dave

 

Your suspension has more built in tuneing than most. It and the tire combo will be one. Off roading or dirt tracking were wheel and tire are oscillations in space it would be a mass of unsprun weight. Your car will show what tire it wants, If you ever put your back side in it and leave that home brain to rest! :>

 

Won't be until next year so yes, I would love to hear how both sets work.