Features Traditional Track T or Bucket Build Cost Under $5000??

Damn! Put the wrong set up. These should get bigger with a click or two.

 

Thanks I think I have or am getting the picture of what you mean.

What is the rod running from the drivers side to the frame?

Also how about a Z'd frame? I have seen a few build with it in the back and the front. What is that for? Is it to make it look as if you are sitting lower then you really are?

 

The rod running down the front of the frame on mine is the drag link from a cowl mount steering box. I set the steering box (extended Corvair) and the brake pedal/mastercylinder mount up on a 1 3/4" tubing hoop just behind the firewall. It got everything up off the floor so you could put your feet down there when driving for long stretches.

The idea of a double stpped frame is to get the car lower, which with a regular "T" bucket frame isn't that hard to do. If done correctly and covered with a belly pan it could also be used to avoid channeling the body from more room too. But about the time you start futzing with belly pans you kinda cross the line from 'T" bucket into track roadster.

 

Hanging pedals work good too, and to me the pedal motion is more comfortable than a straight up floor mounted pedal which I have also used on other cars.

Most any OEM bucket seat would be too thick and use up valuable interior room, you actually only need about 3/4" foam with an extra 1" in the top roll for a comfortable backrest.

A small steering also gets you extra room and the steering is still real light.

 

When y'all built these did y'all start w/ floors or build your own? I'm not interested in channeling mine. Is it best to get one with the floor or construct your own? If you make your own floor, what material did you use?
The above questions assume a glass car of course (27, not a bucket)

 

Fuck Chip you should have finished that one. Bitchin! Everything is '60s right. I especially like the grill height. Maybe an inch or tow higher but not much. I realize it is sitting on the ground but it has a good look. That is what a lot of T builders get wrong and screws up "the look." I say that If a grill isn't too low it looks too high. Mine should be maybe an inch lower along with the windshield. Yes an inch or two here and there does make a look or break it.

Gary

 

Thanks on the info guys these post have been very helpful and like BZNSRAT has asked I'm interested in that too.

When and if I would channel a body how much space does that really cost me?

I would go with a Z'd frame if it gives me that low down look and doesnt take away to much room. I do like the looks of them Z'd it adds something to them I think.

The steering wheel I have seen some that are so small it looks like a kids toy and just makes it not look right to me. I guess anything from the 50s (55-57 chevy, ford, Mopar) would be far to big of a wheel. Not sure how a 65-66 Mustang wood grain wheel would be in the T's.

Also has anyone seen a steering wheel for E and A body Mopars called Tuff Wheels? They would have been in the 70-71 cars maybe some in the 72-74 cars. They make a reproduction wheel of those and I like those. They can also be done as the race car pop off wheel. I dont know if all wheels can be or not?

I wanted to custom make a window frame for my T or roadster build. I would like it to have that swept back look. I was thinking a middle post.

can that be done with the T bucket windshield?

 

I think buying a body with a floor in it is a waste of money! You usually cut most of it out anyway. I use 3/4: marine plywood and glass mat and resin. Takes about a day of my time to do one.

 

When I did that one I "deconstucted" the old Monogram "Big Drag" T bucket kit and used it's demensions in full scale. Unfortunately, my stuff often gets to sit while I work on everybody else's stuff and as often happens someone came over to pick up their louvered hood and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. saw it done in a town about 100 miles north of here a couple of years ago, and even though the details weren't what I had planned it still looked bitchin'!

 

Hey Op just got this off of Spirits facebook page. I don't know if RPM will run a sale to go along with Spirit or not but that is a hard deal to pass up!

Spirit Industries

<A class=uiLinkSubtle href="http://www.facebook.com/spiritcars/posts/10151560307816753"><ABBR title="Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 6:22pm" data-utime="1363310548">Yesterday</ABBR>

1923 Ford Model T bucket body without floor $297.50
retail is $450.00

1923 Ford Model T body without floor and frame bracket kit $497.50
retail is $650.00

1923 Ford Model T body without floor and perimeter frame $597.50
retail is $750.00
free 1923 Ford Model T Fiberglass Grill Shell included with this order

... 1923 Ford Model T body without floor and fully welded frame $896.50
retails for $1049.00
free 1923 Ford Model T Fiberglass Grill Shell included with this order

Shipping is not included in the prices above.
Limited time offer and quantity available.
Give us a call and order yours today!

 

Yes, it is very possible, did one for $2800, building own frame, engine was from a 76 Lincoln and the build would have been less if the tranny hadn't had to be rebuilt. Bought only the body, engine and tranny, rest was junkyard freebies and/or built by us. I have added a picture of the car to my album, CARS

 

Thanks for the input regarding the proportions. I definitely want to get it right!

 

Thanks for the links! I did talk to Josh at Spirit today and got all the pricing info. I'm very close to figuring out what I will need.

 

Good deal Bobs66440 keep us posted on what you do and how it all goes. Also if you go with Spirit let us know and how the process is. Both Spirit and RPM have been good to me in emails and Ron did call me from RPM and talk with me.

I can't wait to see your build. I'm close to just pulling the trigger and getting a body myself and that price from Spirit is awful tempting.

Hey check out their youtube page I just went on there and found the owner talking about the stretched bodies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIMSjLyrU6g&list=WLF90528C072D23515

 

Don't feel bad. It's all good discussion.

I found these on ebay. The price and the look is right for me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/hot-rod-rat...768&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=5&sd=280975241074&

 

Great video. Thanks for posting that. It all gets added into the memory banks in my brain. Eventually, I'll shake it all up and see pops out ....

 

Awesome work! But that's a little beyond my skill level...but THAT is first class!


Skill level is 25% knowledge and 75% courage.
Blind Elwood

 

As several have said you have to be able to shop the bargains and it's better to buy a running driving donor rig that you can get engine, trans and rear end out of.

The main thing is plan it out from the get go and don't buy crap that you don't need.
It doesn't need chrome this that or another unless you get it at a real bargain price.
You don't need a custom built engine done by the local name builder when a good running stock engine out of a 800.00 or maybe less used car that you can drive home, tune up change the fluids and filters and fully check out before you pull it, trans and rear end and then sell off the remains will do fine.
You don't need a set of special wheels when you can clean up a set of yard sale wheels and have them look great.
You don't need a pair of 300.00 each bomber seats that you have to special order when a few inches of foam, plywood and some vinyl bought on discount will suffice nicely and make your butt happier in the long run.
Front suspension, a bit of hunting will probably find a complete front end that someone pulled out of a car he is "updating" and can be had for not much more than the price of a set of kingpins, wheel bearings and brake shoes.
Gauges, You don't need curved glass Stewart Warners in an engine turned dash unless you get them so cheap you can't turn them down.
And don't overpay just because you are in a big assed hurry.
I'd think that any guy or gal on here worth their salt could build a decent little traditonal T bucket or Modified for well under 5k if they keep it simple and stay with a plan. I'm talking shiny paint, new tires and upholstered. It won't have a lot of the high dollar extras that some guy can't seem to live without but it can easily be done.

I've been collecting pieces for a boat tail roadster that is intended to look like an early 30's two seat race car. Most of the body will be built using left over sheet metal and several major pieces were donated including the engine but even if I put reasonable prices on the donated items I will be well under 5k on it when it is painted, has upholstery and four new tires. The tires will actually be the single most expensive part of the car. So far I'm in it less than 600 bucks including 200 to go to Tacoma and get the donated engine.

 

Thanks man, I didnt want to over step anything. I'm kind of in the same boat you are.

I like those bomber seats and maybe you can find a local metal guy to make them and put some padding and cover it at a cheaper price.

I was thinking about when I build my frame (when I get there) of drilling it out and then putting round tubbing in it to make it look like I drilled the frame out.

I'm also now leaning towards a Z'd frame to keep the extra room. If my understanding is right I would lose a little leg room if I channel a body over the frame.

Also on the video not a problem man I saw that and thought you would be interested. I have viewed a million of T bucket videos and they are all named something different.

Keep us posted and I can't wait to see the build. I'm so tempted to order a body this weekend at that price.

 

More questions for thos of you that have:
What rear-end width is appropriate for these cars? Again, don't want to screw up the look with wheels/tires sticking out 4ft from the body.

Also, I am thinking automatic b/c there will be little room for 3 pedals (although I would love to bang em)...any transmission shapes more conducive to the cramped space? I am thinking the old powerglides seem smaller than a th350 (btw goin with a sbc).

Thanks for all the help!!!

 

The general consensus seems to be that an S-10 rear is the optimum width. Apparently, the 2WD version is 54" to each wheel mounting surface while the 4x4 version is 56" (I haven't actually measured one, so I can't confirm the measurements). And the diff is centered, so that makes it better for a T because of the really short drive shaft that you end up with.

This turns out to be a bit of a problem for me because my Camaro donor car has a 10 bolt that's 62" wide. Everyone tells me that it's really too wide to look right, and I agree. Sooo, that means I need to find a rear somewhere. I found one (4.11) at a local yard, but it's $225. That cuts into the budget.

And when I bought the car, I thought I would be able to use the entire drive train and brakes. Now it turns out I can only use the engine & trans. I can probably use the front brakes, but they are pretty corroded, and since I'm using a Ford axle, I'll have to buy an expensive conversion kit for the spindles anyway, so I might as well just buy the Ford kit. That cuts into the budget.

Unfortunately, what I learned in the last few days is, in NY a big driving factor of the build is the titling / registration process. You need to have receipts for EVERYTHING and all the major components need to be traceable to a car with a VIN that is proven to be not stolen or altered. Getting components from a salvage yard is recommended because they have all the paperwork you need. That cuts into the budget.

Also, the frame has to have a certificate of origin (MSO) and not all manufacturers offer this. I don't have the tools to build my own frame, so I have to go with a builder that can give me a MSO. After the car is complete, it has to go through an inspection and if anything comes up stolen or if any numbers appear to be altered, they confiscate that component then and there. You lose it. I've seen it happen. That cuts into the budget.

What all this means for me is, all those fun hours of searching for bargains at flea markets and swap meets is mostly shot to hell. I have to pony up top dollar for all the big stuff. That cuts into the budget.

I did have hopes for another donor car. A '78 Olds Cutlass for $500. Good runner and it even had a narrow rear I could use. But, of course it turned out to have a 260 Olds engine, not a Chevy 305, so I couldn't use it.

Anyway, as it stands now, unless someone donates a traceable engine, trans & rear (unlikely) my budget is going to be around $6000. This has taken the wind out of my sails a bit...

My advice to anyone planning on building a car. Thoroughly investigate the requirements for titling the car in your state so you don't end up with expensive yard art. NY just happens to be a difficult state. Lucky me!

My original question was answered. Can I build a T for $5000 or less? Definitely. Can I register it for the road? Not yet.

 

A 260 Olds engine should be OK for a T-bucket.

 

OK, I just discovered this thread and I'm a little late to the discussion. I built my first T-bucket frame in 1968 out of 4 inch channel iron. Since then I have built over 20 frames for everything from Model-A's to a '48 Anglia and at least 7 T-buckets. All but two of them were built from 2 x 3 or 2 x 4 .120 wall tubing. I enjoy chassis construction, so I don't buy anything that I can fabricate myself. I am currently building a Track-T with a round tube frame. You can see the step-by-step build thread here: http://www.clubhotrod.com/hot-rod-talk/30400-another-build-thread-yep-my-track-style-t.html. I am using a Dave Koorey body with a 6-inch extended cowl.

Here's my 2-cents-worth - First, don't get discouraged over the small matter of the rear end. You have options here... You don't need that 4.11 rear end; a T-bucket is so light (typically 1600 - 1800 pounds) you can use just about any gear ratio. Opt for something with a higher ratio which is more common and therefore cheaper. The coupe in my avatar weighs about 2600 pounds and has a 2.79 rear gear (8 inch Ford from a Maverick). It still launches pretty hard and it gets good gas mileage. I got that rear for $100. Take a look at Toyota pickup rears - they come in a bunch of different ratios, many are limited slip, and they have a Ford bolt pattern (5 on 4 1/2). You may be able to yank the engine and trans out of that Camaro and trade the rolling body for a rear end you can use.

The front axle can be expensive if you have to buy everything new, but here again you may be able to find options. Someone suggested searching swap meets, etc, for a used assembly. That's good advice and I would try that first, but if you dont have any luck, try thinking "outside the box". I once found a '35 Ford axle under an old wooden trailer and the old guy gave it to me for hauling it away! I scrapped the trailer and used the axle. In my coupe I used the front axle from a '62 Jeep 2-wheel-drive station wagon; the roadster I am building has the axle from a '65 Ford Econoline van. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge pickups and vans all used beam axles in their earlier years, so they are all viable alternatives. None of those are easy to find either, but the price is usually in the $150 range. There are no kits for something like those, so you would have to fabricate all the brackets yourself. The good news is those axles are made of forged steel and can be welded on with no damage to their strength.

There has been some discussion of proportion here and that is important. There is nothing wrong with stretched bodies and I highly recommend them if you are over 5'8" tall. Also, the extended body may make the car easier to sell in the future if you ever decide to do that. Where proportion really comes into play is in the placement of components in relation to the body. If you have too much space between the firewall and engine, the whole car will look poorly planned. The radiator location and height is a critical piece of the overall look. If there is too much space between radiator and the engine something will seem out of place. If the top of the radiator/grille shell is higher than the cowl it will look like the car is sagging in the middle. Also, the placement of the rear axle is critical. There is some tolerance in the fore and aft location of the rear, but if it is too far aft it will look like the chassis was built for a bigger car and the body doesn't fit!

Your photoshopped pictures look cool. Here's some pix of the Track-T I'm building. I should have it finished for just under $4500.

 

I thought about that, but after some research I found that they are anemic engines at best. Almost no go-fast goodies available. You have to change the heads if you even want to put a 4bbl on it.

I know a sb Chevy isn't the most exciting choice, but it is cheap and parts are all over the place...

 

Thanks for the encouragement. I love the Track T. I really don't mind the stretched cowl at all. It's not a classic text book T Bucket look, but it's cool nonetheless. I'm not married to the classic look. I just wish the registration process wasn't such a nightmare. That would make life so much easier.

You have given me inspiration to find a front axle though. There is some cash to be saved there, not a HUGE amount, but a few hundred maybe...and if I make my own hair pins, drag link, cross link, panhard and radius rods, that will help too... There's a local shop that has a great selection of tubing and rod ends.

 

Hey bobs66440 you could pull that motor and sell off the whole car for what you paid for it. I would put an add up for a drag car and ask just a little more then what you paid so if someone comes to talk you down you have some room to play with.

I bought an LT4 Vette last summer for 5K and was going to paint it fix it up a little and enjoy it but the prices of parts kept me from it. I put an add on CL for 9K not even top book value and ran all summer on craigslist. A collector came in and looked at it and drove it home for 5900. The guys who came by and said they would only give me 2-3K for it I just said I would pull the motor, trans and rear from the car and maybe the breaks and use everything for a truck build and part the other half of the car. Just the body alone is worth 3-4K.

Also did you see the thread on Spirit and RPM about getting a title? I think there is a thread for NY in RPMs section on Tbucketeers.

I know Spirit once you have a complete car they go to DMV and get a title and mail it out to you and then you go to your local DMV and you have a car ready to go. That is on a car you build yourself.

I'm still on the fence of buying a body or having one made here out of steel. I was thinking 2 1/2 inches in the cowel area, 2 inches where the doors would be and 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 inches behind the doors. I'm going for a 6 inche stretch.

I have read about the S-10 rears but have not heard what years or if the year doesnt matter.

How taking your rear and trading it on the rear you need from the yard? Also the breaking system and parts you would need?

The local yard just might take the whole car in for parts trade and there might be someone there wanting to build a race car and would be interested in your body. Dont count the Camero out from getting you what you need or making you some cash to help in the build.

I sold my AR-15 rifle to get cash to build a car and just kind of building up a little more cash to really do what I want.

I really like that Track T and those cars bring back some memories.

 

I spent the better part of last week back and forth on the phone with Spirit, RPM (who were both incredibly helpful) and the NYS DMV field investigations unit (who does the inspections). Even a Washington rep of SEMA. Unfortunately, that is all on a Federal level and does not have precedence over state law. NY does not recognize or participate in any of that. They have their own laws and what matters here is; If a partial kit is sold to me and I complete the car at home, I am considered the manufacturer, therefore it's subject to state inspection and VIN assignment, registration and making it conform to all the NY safety laws (wipers, all lights, horn, defroster, etc.) by me. What I need to do is get a frame with a MSO, complete the car to their requirements, keep all the receipts for the major components, then take it to an inspection station to have it checked out. If everything checks, they register it as a 2013 (or whatever year it is at the time) custom car, assign it a VIN and send you on your way. A friend just went through it with a Factory Five '33 Roadster kit and gave me the play by play of how it all went down.

In some states like Arkansas that adopted the legislation, the service supposedly really does make it easy. Unfortunately, I don't live in one of those states.

Here is the link to the page that was posted on the Tbucketeers forum that outlines the requirements for a kit car in NY. Essentially the same as I just described.
http://www.dmv.ny.gov/forms/vs100.pdf
I called the office, spoke to two different people (the only ones in the state that handle this type of thing) and was told exactly what I described.

The only thing that is in question is, they told me more than once that the frame HAS to come with a MSO. No exceptions. But what if I build my own frame, then what? From what I understand, other guys have registered cars with no problems that didn't have MSOs. There are still some unanswered questions that I need to resolve before I get too far into this. I obviously don't want to go through any more hassle than I have to, but I'm just going by what I was told.

In any case, the manufacturers I've spoken to (Spirit and RPM) have been so incredibly helpful in all of this. I've built a few cars and been involved in many types of racing and clubs etc, and have never run across anyone who was so willing to help, ever. Kudos to those guys.

 

To me, the stretched cowl looks like a hybrid between the '23 and the '27 cowl. It actually resembles some cowl shapes of other cars like Nash or Dodge and could probably be passed off as something other than a Ford if that was desirable.

If you get a chance to read my build thread, it explains in detail how I built the hairpin radius rods, all the brackets, etc, and tells what materials and tools I used.

One thing I didn't talk about concerning proportion - the windshield. I have seen a lot of different windshields used on T-buckets; most are pretty cool, but a few of them were just plain stupid looking. Take a close look at a bunch of T-buckets and notice that the good looking Model-T windshields are actually a little bit wider than the cowl, hence the use of the offset lower stanchions. For some reason it makes the proportions right! I have seen some home made windshield frames that aren't wide enough and they just look doofy. The windshield may be one place where you don't want to skimp too much, or, if you build the frame yourself, pay careful attention to the width.

I've been building hotrods and race cars now for over 40 years and I'm still learning, but I enjoy passing my experience on to whoever can use it. If you have any questions along the way, please ask! My last piece of advice: Pick a direction for your build, jump in with both feet and, above all, have fun!

 

The s10 rear-end is good news, unlike a lot of other parts, they are plentiful here. It would b nice to find one with a t5 too.
We got one as a donor for my 50 coupe for $150.


Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad

 

I just registered on that forum and I will check out that thread. Thanks.

The windshield is something I've been trying to get more info about. Specifically, how it's held into the stanchions and how it's mounted to the cowl. I want to use a relatively short one that's swept back maybe 10 degrees. I don't want a typical tall one like you see and I would rather not have visible supports. I've been trying to get some detailed info and photos, but have had little luck. I imagine that at speed, there's a lot of force on it, so I want it to be strong...but sleek. Also, where to get the glass. Would a local glass shop be able to cut custom safety glass?

Actually, the one on your track T is exactly what I'm looking for. Do you have detailed info/photos? Do you think that's something I can build? A have pretty good metal working skills and a 110 mig welder.