Is there any reason that a trans cooler HAS to be in front of the radiator? I dont have room for it in front, but I do behind the radiator. I understand that the air going thru it wont be as cold as if it was in front. But does it really matter? And for that matter would the same apply to an AC condensor? THANKS!
this is how we did it at the street rod shop. keep in mind that the factory trans cooler in the radiator was little more than a tube running through the bottom (or side) tank of the radiator--through HOT antifreeze. The trans must get UP to operating temp to be efficient, besides not getting TOO hot, decreasing efficiency and increasing wear. keep in mind too, that a trans designed to work properly in, for instance, a 70 Impala, doesn't have to work as hard (generate less heat) in a lightweight like a Model A
The problem I have is that there isnt enough room between the radiator and the motor for a fan, so I have to have an electric fan on the front of the radiator. There isnt enough room on the rad to mount a fan and the cooler. Does the cooler need a fan? or can I mount it off to the side...
I had little room also so i mounted mine under the car with a scoop to direct airflow and i added 2 x 12v computer fans, Never been a problem.
mike- can you mount a 'puller' elec fan on the engine side of the rad? spal makes some ulta thin fans than pull alot of air and mount the trans cooler on the grill side? doent matter where trans cooler is mounted in your case
Somewhere a few years ago I saw photos of one tucked up under the floorboards with a small fan used to blow air to it. It was probably in some build thread in some magazine but it looked interesting at the time.
"keep in mind that the factory trans cooler in the radiator was little more than a tube running through the bottom (or side) tank of the radiator--through HOT antifreeze. The trans must get UP to operating temp to be efficient, besides not getting TOO hot, decreasing efficiency and increasing wear." true
Mine is under the floor. It must not take much air as my old coupe was tucked way-up high and kinda out of the air flow and drove it a lot of miles for 16 years. The AC condensor is another story. Never could make it work under there.
Needless to say that there is NO ROOM in a big block powered Pontiac Fiero. So I may be able to enlighten you on this subject. First off you did not say why you can't run a fan between your engine and your radiator so I am going to ***ume that your car has a blower. Secondly you did not say if you have isolated your ****** line from your internal radiator/****** cooler. So my sugestion to you is first off DO NOT run your ****** fluid thru your internal radiator/****** cooler. You are trying to COOL your ****** fluid, so why would you want to heat it up with your engine temperature coolant? Secondly there are several self-contained ****** coolers on the market with a dedicated electric fan. These coolers can be installed just about anywhere and will solve your problem. I have one in the rear of my Pro Fiero under the car between my rear end and my fuel cell and my ****** stays very cool even if the engine gets hot.
Agree with pro85 and in addition to that, you can also put a deeper finned alumn. pan on it, for additional fluid/cooler temps.
I agree with "Mr. Jean! Pans are not cheap but they do help. They disapate heat and increase fluid capacity. I have one on my Art Carr built 700R4 in my Nova Wagon, however I don't have the luxury of room on my Fiero. Its only got a very few inches of ground clearence. Remember, anything you do or purchase will be a lot cheaper then buying another ******!
Unless your towing or have a very high stall converter a small cooler mounted about anywhere with or without a fan will do the job in most cases. Take a look at mid 60s powerglides with no cooler at all, only fins on the converter!
GM as well as others experimented with "Air Cooled" ******s for years, remember the VEGA! Everyone came to the same conclusion, the cooler the better!
Trans fluid can get to 400 deg,so running it thru 180 deg water is a good start in cooling .If it wasnt WHY would the factorys do it? Then branch off after rad cooling to oil cooler to continue the drop in temp.The old tail that trans fluid is heated in radiator is false,If it needed heat at all time the factorys wouldnt use a thermastat to let engine heat up first,and the cooler is kind of small for a heat up job then running thru 5 +of tubing plus exposed to fast moving air under car only helps in cooling only.Good luck.........................YG
Well I think "yardgoat" needs to do a tad bit of research. No disrespect to "yardgoat" but if ****** fluid got anywhere near 400 deg. that ****** wouldn't make it down a short street. I "googled" ****** fluid temperatures and this is what I copied (I hope this pastes to this post). Automatic Transmissions OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURED AT CONVERTER OUTLET TO COOLER:<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O> </O><O></O> <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-table-layout-alt: fixed" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=685><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=67 align=middle>300° F=<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=586 align=middle>The maximum allowable temperature. This is the recommended place to install a temperature gauge or sensor. Do not allow the converter outlet temperature to exceed 300° F. The temperature at this location will vary significantly because of load, hill climbing, etceteras. If the temperature reaches 300° F, reduce throttle. To lower transmission temperature with transmission in neutral, run the engine at 1,200 RPM for at least 2 - 3 minutes while keeping a close check for signs of engine overheating. A transmission in a heavy throttle, stall condition (a typical situation is rocking a vehicle stuck in mud, sand, or snow), may increase temperature at a rate of 1° degree per second of stall.<O> </O><O></O> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURED AT OIL PAN OR SUMP:<O> </O><O></O><TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-table-layout-alt: fixed" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=687 height=349><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=117 vAlign=top width=99 align=middle>150° F=<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=117 vAlign=top width=556 colSpan=2 align=middle>The minimum operating temperature. Note: It is possible in low ambient temperatures to overcool the transmission with auxiliary oil to air coolers. Oil to water coolers in standard factory radiators will normally not overcool a transmission.<O> </O> <O></O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=48 vAlign=top width=96 colSpan=2 align=middle>175-200° F=<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=48 vAlign=top width=559 align=middle>Normal pan oil temperature operating range.<O> </O> <O></O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=71 vAlign=top width=99 align=middle>275° F=<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=71 vAlign=top width=556 colSpan=2 align=middle>Maximum allowable oil pan temperature for short durations during long hill climbs.<O> </O> <O></O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=94 vAlign=top width=99 align=middle>300° F=<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" height=94 vAlign=top width=556 colSpan=2 align=middle>Damage occurs to internal transmission parts, including warpage of metal parts, degradation of clutches, and melting of seals. Transmission oil oxidizes, (forming varnish-like substances causing further clutch slippage and compounding heat build up) and transmission oil life is extremely short.<O> </O><O></O> </TD></TR><TR height=0><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none" height=19 width=115></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none" height=19 width=1></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none" height=19 width=575></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID LIFE / TEMPERATURE RELATIONSHIP:<O> </O><O></O>Automatic transmission oil can provide up to 100,000 miles of service before oxidation requires replacement, at an operating temperature of 175° F. Above this temperature, the oil oxidation rate doubles with each 20° degrees F increase in oil temperature. See chart.<O> </O><O></O> <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-table-layout-alt: fixed" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 2.25pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>DEGREES F<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 2.25pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>MILES<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>DEGREES F<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 2.25pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 2.25pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>MILES<O> </O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>175<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>100,000<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>295<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>1,500<O> </O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>195<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>50,000<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>315<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>750<O> </O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>215<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>25,000<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>335<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>325<O> </O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>235<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>12,500<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>355<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>160<O> </O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>255<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>6,250<O> </O> </TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>375<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>80<O> </O> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>275<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>3,125<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>395<O> </O> </TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 117pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=156 align=middle>40<O> </O> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Note: Transmission oil and filter should always be changed more frequently when driving with heavy loads (RVs), typically at least every 25,000 mile intervals, since converter outlet temperatures then normally far exceed the ideal 175° F.
Keep in mind hot days and heavy traffic conditions. Some go to rally's or cruising events and can get caught in traffic, with NO air movement to cool things down. I like having the fan and extra stuff, so I can go anywhere and enjoy myself and not spend time watching gauges/worrying about the engine/trans temps.
Also pay attention the transmission lines. Route them away from the headers/exhaust area, as this can add extra unwanted heat too.
Thanks for the post on temps,i was going by a old mechanic friend and should have researched before posting.OK i was wrong and glad i have right info .Ido thank you cause were never to old to learn or admit when were wrong.Sorry for bad info guys...........my bad....(i hate that saying)......................YG
Also if too cool is a concern they make inline thermostats for that. However I have personally never seen ****** fluid temps run too cool. Usually you are always trying to keep them from running too warm especially in a performance application.
Thanks for the info guys. I will look into thinner fans. My electric fan is about 3 inches and it wont fit between the water pump and radiator. Or I may see if I can modify the plastic housing the fan is in to get more room.
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