TRIUMPH starting trouble!!! HEEEELLP!!!

Been working on the bike for the last 6 hours...
Trying to start it... Can't get it to run...
Broke my leg twice almost... It has mad compression!!

First I couldn't get it to go through the compression. The clutch would keep slipping. Then I put my old clutch springs back. And I was able to kick it through the compression.
I found out that that f#*kin asshole at the Triumph dealership (who already emptied my wallet enough) sold me waaay to weak clutch springs!!

So that works... Once it kicked me completely back up in the air! Haha! My knee hurt for about an hour!

For the rest, it has real good sparks from the magneto.
It gets fuel. Also, when I smell at the ends of the pipes I smell fuel too, so there is fuel in the cylinders.
We checked the whole ignition timing twice.
There's no short circuit.
There's oil inside.
Carbs should be adjusted allright for the moment, to just start it.
I hope it's not drowned, or how you call that in English, you know, that there's too much fuel.

Maybe we'll have to push start it.. I tried to push start it myself. Put it in 2nd, push, let clutch go... haha, the wheel just locked up!! Way to much compression! It's crazy!

When I bought the bike, it had been standing for a long while... We had to push start it too... It ran in a couple minutes.. After that it would start every time with the kickstarter.

Anyone has an idea maybe..?

Thanks!

Maurice...

 

retard the spark!

 

I already did retard the spark... It's still not runnin'!

 

sounds like you need to adjust the valves and give them a lil play.

i've adjusted mine too tight and couldn't kick it at all

you know how?

 

clean and re adjust your points on the mag



good luck

 

The mag is brand new!

Valves are adjusted... Inlet .002", outlet .004"... Like the book says.

There might be a difference though, when a big bore kit is installed like on mine. Mmmmm...

 

i never go by the book man....adjust them til you feel a lil play with your fingers...i actually tighten them and then back em off til it "wiggles" to feel

carbs could be trashed from sittin too

 

Yeah... I know what you mean. The play on the valves feels good too though.

I took the carbs apart, cleaned 'em completely, lubricated everything a little, and put 'em back together.

 

swap ya plug leads over as it a parallel 360 twin it may be out 360 % if it works leave it.The way to time it is look into the barrel with plug out turn it over till the intake valve opens then over that to top dead centre.Put in a timing rod or and back off till you hit the said length to tdc say 9/16 on the rod.When you get there put the mag in full advance position cheque that the right mag cam hump is for that side of the engine,loosen the points and shove a cigarette paper in and adjust until you can just pull the paper out timing is then set.We call over rich washing the bores it causes all sorts of problems like bore glaze.......................Marq anyway just change the plug leads over first it's simple and may just work,i would advise taking the plugs out drying them off and kicking the juice out first too

 

Yeah... That's what I just talked about with my dad. We're gonna change plug wires first tomorrow morning.

We did all that timing stuff. We retarded it though.
It looks like it fires at about 7/16 before TDC now...

 

yeah it may well do i can't remember all the rod lengths for all the models as i am mainly a MATCHLESS man......................Marq

 

you sure the cam timing is right? theres a lot of marks on them gear that can confuse a guy...

also try holding you hand over the carb inlet when you kick it over to choke it...i know good luck with real compression.

make sure the carb slides close all the way.

and i don't think there is such a thing as flooding a triumph! tickle the carbs till gas drips out is standard operating procedure.

 

I know it's a bit crude but on my old trumpets I used to pull plugs out, and throw it over to see which lead sparked,then see which piston was coming up to TDC. Push the piston to TDC then retard it 5/16th.
Adjust the mag to make sure the points were just opening, and slam in the plugs.
Wind all air settings in the carbs closed and back off one and a half turns.
Kick 'em over, adjust carbs, and advance or retard the mag, 'til it felt right on the throttle and ears.
Jump on and go ticket collecting.
Trumpets and BSA's worked well like that, Nortons needed proper timing templates.

 

Yeah guys... We tried all this... We're gona do the plug wire swap in a minute... If that's not working..

I'm gonna call someone to help pushing!

 

Well.... We swapped the plug wires, gave it a couple of good pushes... Nothin'...

Started kicking again. At a certain moment I got to really bad kick backs... Two kicks later it fired up!! Ran like hell!! Really good... We adjusted here and there. Only when I turned the bars, the throttle cable somehow got into a strange corner or something, which caused the motor to throttle up.
I shut the motor down with the killswitch, worked great. We did some adjusting to the throttle cable. Like 20 minutes later I want to fire it up again. Nothing... Been trying for like 20 minutes...
I don't know anymore guys. It gets fuel... The sparkplugs get covered with fuel very very little, so that should be okay, right?
Here's a few pics... Took me forever to load these through Starphoto... So you can see what set-up I'm running. Maybe it's of any help in someway.

I hope I sell my Chevy to this dude that dropping by this afternoon... That would at least make my day....

 

I see the trouble now!
It's too clean! and there's no beer spilled on it.
British bikes and riders should always be well soaked in beer and oil,
that's why the old bikers were called "greasers"
(or was it because of the "Brillcream"
That's it!
Brill cream your hair, get drunk and splash some oil about,
you'll be all set to go.

 

motor looks clean so I'm not going to say rings.
If it kicks back a lot, I'd say over advanced.
that could make her too hot and evaporate fuel out of the float chambers.
We would tickle the carbs on a cold motor 'till the fuel was there, kick and go.
Make sure you use the right plugs too.
Don't use really "Hot" plugs.
They don't seem to like starting in British bikes.
I used to gap pugs at .025, tappets if I remember rightly, were set at .014
I remember that much

 

ok wait till it's cold completely cold then have a go ,if it fires up almost straight away then the condenser in the mag is shot(i know i know had it rebuilt and all that )don't matter a shit you can put a new one in the mag and it still be shot.So now it fires up when you changed the leads over so you know know they were wrong.Take the kill switch off and look at it to make sure there is no earth until you push it,also that aint no place to put a magneto they need to be as cool as possible.Sounds like fuel is ok otherwise no goso i recon it electrical also check it advancing and retarding properly...........Marq

 

Okay guys... I made a little more progress... I fired it up when it was, indeed, cold... It worked after a couple kicks... Got rid of that throttle cable problem... Adjusted idle a bit. I thought, let's go for a test spin. But then I couldn't get it in gear... I'm gonna adjust the clutch a little now, so I can get it in gear...

Also, one pipe got colored a little, the other didn't... I checked the plugs.. The one on the "colored pipe" side was a little black, too rich probably... We'll probably get rid of that.

About the magneto... It should run as cold as possible huh... Well, I have another set of pipes that go the other way... Scrambler type you know... Would that be better?



I had the guy here for my Chevy in the meanwhile too... He's gonna let me know what he's gonna decide later this week...
I hope he's gonna make me happy with 14500 Euro's!!! Then I can finally come out to the States to buy me a real car or project... Or both!!!!!

 

check that the mixture screw on both carbs is approx 1 3/4 turns out.Yuk i hate those later carbs they are nuthin but trouble shoulda got either monoblocks or mk1 concentrics.Check also both needles are on the correct notch the higher you lift it the richer the mixture.If that bike runs when cold and not hot it sounds like the mag defo needs a condenser change...........Marq

 

Johnnygringo... I got your PM... But I'm first gonna try something else..
I talked to a very, very experienced motorcycle/engine building guy. He told me that it's always hard to start a high compression motor like mine.
He said that the motor needs a lot of fuel, and told me first to try and start it when I prime it by spraying fuel into the velocity stacks, and see wht happens then.

Also, a mag on a high compression motor, is kind of a difficult situation. The mag needs a high starting speed. But, because of the high compression, my motor doesn't stroke too much when I kick it. So not too much rotating speed for the mag.
By installing a thicker head gasket I could lose a little compression, which could make starting a little easier.
T
omorrow morning I'm first gonna prime the carbs a little, and see what happens.
Maybe it just doesn't get enough fuel.
The mag is brand new, so that actually can't be the problem.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Maurice...

 

Don't put on a bigger gasket,
prime the carbs and prime the motor, leave off the ignition and ease it over on the kick start, until it passes compression.
Make the proverbial leap of faith,
and crack the throttle open as it turns over.
Oh, by the way,
the brits used to fit a re-enforcing cleat underneath the instep of their right boot.
And make sure that at the bottom of the swing your foot doesn't leave the pedal.
"Cos that's when it'll get yuh!!

 

Yeah, I'm first gonna do the priming thing... Later I think... It's FUCKIN' RAINING AGAIN!!!

BTW... You're talking about boots... I don't have boots. I have to kick it with my old Vans...

 

the brits used to fit a re-enforcing cleat underneath the instep of their right boot
we still do.............Marq

 

you need boots mcos if that tyhing does backfire you are going to A & E .........MARQ

 

hey gangster of love

i gots to ask, what all you got done to that motor? i know big bore, but shaved head, cams? what kind of compression? tested, not just theoretical. how about your GAS? is it any good?

how bad does it kick back on you? not to preach or anything, but you sure the cams are timed properly, try degreeing them in? the marks could be wrong, read the factory literature and you will be shocked at the manufacturing tolerances, like +/- 2 1/2°!! they actually say you can try shifting the gears a whole tooth off the marks...

make sure you throw some NEW plugs in, then try the squirting fuel in thing. what brand plugs you runnin? some guys are real picky, i used NGK with good luck.

and stupid as it sounds, practice getting in the longest stroke on your kick as you can, its typical to just stop at the bottom of the kickers swing, but i've found that when i consciously go past that to some point further that can make a big differance in starting.

 

Do NOT use Champion plugs!!!!!
Do use NGK plugs. And make sure the gap is in the .015 - .020 range unless recommended otherwise by the mag
manufacturer.
Make sure the timing can be retarded enough to allow a decent kick, it does sound like your timing is too advanced.
All my Triumphs would start on the first or second kick, the bike's design is that good, and your's should too.

 

Hey Ray...

I don't know what kind of cams it are... but I DO know that I've got everything timed very well.
I haven't had the cams out of the block, because I didn't have the special tools... It all felt okay, no play or anything, and they looked good, so I left 'em in there.

It does have the big bore kit, and a standard 650 head...

I could take the compression measurement thing home tomorrow and do a test.

The gas is okay... 98 octane, fresh from the gas station.
I have new plugs in it, NGK's...

I also have been practicing on getting the longest stroke.

I talked to a couple of very experienced motorcycle guys today, and it's looking more and more like it's a fuel problem. It just doesn't get enough fuel during the starting procedure.

I had it running 3 or 4 times now, and when it runs, it runs really really sweet. Doesn't sound like there is something wrong with timing at all.

I haven't done anything to it today... I'm gonna try again tomorrow evening.

 

ah ha! thats the problem...98 octane? i'll send you some of the skunk piss they call gas here!

 

If you have an overbore motor and stock head you can probably add .5 to the compression rating of your pistons.
If you're running with 9 to ones your probably up to 9.5
If you've got 10 to ones, 10.5.
Don't think I've seen a bonny keep the heads on passed 11 to one.
Tickle those carbs 'till you feel fuel when the motor is stone cold.
On the old mono blocks, once or twice was enough if the motor was warm.
I used to run champion N3's, but that was thirty years ago.
Plugs have improved since then.