trouble shooting this front engine dragster

It still doesn't add up for me. I can 60' in the mid 1.30's off idle with a **** converter - M&H 12" Racemasters and a nearly stock motor. It hooks nearly as well with the tires warmed up or cold - VHT or not. With your description (on the brink of overpowering your much stickier tires) it doesn't make sense - I think you must be spinning them alot more than you think or there's some other problem - trans going away - something. Have you video'd the run? It'd be real interesting to see...

 

Oh,Lippy I do want it consistent as I bracket race it. If the weather is mild it runs 5.891-5.898, warm it goes 5.920-5.926,when hot 5.960-5.970,but still being constant it should be faster. Like Tinman said at least 1hp per ci. If I could afford the dyno sessions and all this combo is making is 421hp I'll give it to the dyno man and pay him to boot.I built a decently mild 406 using my same machinist,for a friend to run in his street/bracket 77 chevy LUV ,he had it dynoed it made 465hp and 480lbft,I got waaaay more engine than the one I built him.My machinist is an old asphalt circle racer that built and raced his own stuff many years ago and he does know how to find lots of FREE horsepower.I am just not hitting something right in my combo..........

 

You don't have enough power to scald the tires. I haven't listened to the video but if the tires are 'chirping' it is not from tire spin! The carb is not too big. A 1.30 60' is too casual, i expect the oversized tire has something to do with it - can you feel/hear the car shift into high? How is the burnout? Lots of tire speed & good smoke, can your crew guy tell you have gone into high gear? I am asking these questions to see if your trans is working; if you are 'driving thru' the converter. Could be anything from bad sprag in the converter to weak valve springs to ch***is way out of whack (tire chirp) to cam timing to trans being in more than 1 gear at the same time.

 

Hemi, The ****** is fine it's a BTE with a 1.80 gear set and 8 or 10 clutches I'd have to go through all the paper work to find the sheet on it. Never been hot only took off in high gear one time to see what would happen still ran a 6.190.It has less than 80 1/8mi. p***es on it..........

 

OJ, I don't get a lot of smoke off the tires,yes I feel it shift hard when I push the ****on.watch the video and tell me what you think.......ken

 

Oh, OJ, my crew man is my wife,we race on a small to no budget.It took me 7 years to finish the drive train, I did the engine Johnny Cash style I got it one piece at a time, but it did cost me lots of dimes.......Ken

 

Where is this video ?

 

I guess i am too stupid, i don't see a link to the video - post it up ok?

 

if your scalding the tires, start lowering your tire pressure by 1/4 pound at a time till it shakes, then go up 1/2 pound and use that as your baseline.

 

Here is the web-page address:http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=drag racing at battlefield raceway. Copy and paste in your url and it is en***led "Wishful thinking".......Ken

 

If a car is over tired it will chirp the tires because it dosen't have enough power to keep the tire planted. Too much air pressure will also cause this.All cars need a certain amount of wheel speed to accelerate .Try raising your starting line launch a little bit at a time and see if this helps .My car 60 ft's best at 4500 launch . We have tried it higher and lower just have to find that sweet spot .Just a couple more things to think about . Do you run a distributor ? If so is your advance locked out ?How much total timing 34 to 36 is a good place to start .Just keep trying and you will get it.Keep us informed on your progress and we might learn something from you.

 

That chirping is when you go off the conrete to asphalt at the 60' clocks and there is a dip in the track. It really isn't accelerating is it? Too flat an rpm curve, i'd go back to looking at cam timing and ignition stuff. Can't judge how high the wheelis bar is - looks a bit low, and you not useing it anyway - it might be smacking the track at the dip - unlikely since you'd be up on the tire but a possibility.

 

Is it just me or the OP hasn't posted his stall RPM in his converter yet? Also have you weighed your car in full race weight including you in it?

 

you are right the converter is a 5000 PTC but I do not know where it is flashing at as I have been leaving off idle and going straight to WOT. The little car weighs 1500 with me in it...........

 

ignition: MSD pro billet not locked out mech adv. 28* stop ****on total timing is 36-38*,48,000 volt blaster coil. I can't hardly set my launch rpm as it is a foot brake cl*** and we are not allowed to use the trans brake.I am waiting to go to the track so I can check and see where it is flashing to.I figure if I flash off idle to WOT, stop the car check the recall for highest rpm a few times that should tell me............

 

I know im probably going to generate some arguments with this one, but, in some cases its actually better to not load your converter before take off. I doubt thats the case with a full race 'glide though.
What I noticed when I was watching the video, you did not really do a smokey burnout when you left the water box, but yet you still hooked. So either your feathering the throttle off the line (since you say your not loading the converter) or as others have said you have too much tire. Did you mention the al***ude your running at?

 

Talk to Kenny about your converter. Does he know your leaving off idle and not using the brake? Find out from the cam manufacturer where this cam makes power from. If the cam doesn't make power until 5000 rpm and your leaving at idle with those big tires, your killin yourself.

 

Kenny built the converter to the specs of the car and I told him it was for a foot brake cl***. I had the cam custom ground for the car and cl*** it starts making power at 4000 If I was figuring right with the converter flashing to around there somewhere it should be ok. And no throttle feathering here It's always Balls to the wall.I am trying to get this thing to go at least good enough to almost the same thrill level that I had out of my Flat bottom V-Drive Biesmeyer boat with the 496 BBC it went 121mph on the water..........

 

OH, The al***ude is 350'.............

 

<iframe ***le="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kfqgcCzzSs0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Thanks Swade,I am not computer savvy enough to put it up on here....Thanks Again

 

dumb question,, it is going full throttle? sounds very lazy, and something is not right with it.

 

I have read and looked at all that everyone has posted to help you out .
I also watched the video a few time and this is what I saw and heard . The launch is very soft and you are killing yourself on the light . You really need to bring it up to where the converter is set for a much better launch . That way you are at the cams power band instead of starting off too low on the RPM.s Once you get going it sound good and the pick up is good too . I think you need to work on bringing up the RPM's to get that converter to work for you .
As for the tires , maybe go smaller but I would start with a much higher RPM launch to see how that works for you , then maybe go with a smaller tire .
The 950 Holley is fine and I really wouldn't go smaller . You can alway work with the carb to tune it better or even some smaller jets . That is a lot cheaper than another carb !
I would really like to see what it would do in a 1/4 mile . From the sound of the engine on the video , that engine isn't waking up till you are half way there .
Whatever you do ONLY change one thing at a time . Never do more than one change or you will never figure out what works and doesn't work .
I think the whole set up is a really good starting point . You just need seat time to find out what works best for you .
Next time you take her out , bring the RPM's up high enough to make the converter work for you . I still think that is one of your main problems right now . Work on different RPM's at launches till you find out what works the best for that cam & converter combination . You say your cam starts at 4000 RPM's and the converter is a 5000 stall the bring the RPM's up to about 4000 RPM's and see how that works out for you . You might have to go to 4500 RPM's or maybe drop to 3800 RPM's but try launching at 4000 RPM's and see how that works for you . Try the same RPM launch a few times before you try a different RPM launch . I think you will find a bigger difference once you bring the RPM's up high enough for the converter and cam to wake up together !
BTW , the engine sounds really good once you get going down the track . As for the engine , leave that part alone !
Just my opinion !

Retro Jim

 

Howdy Ken:
Say with regards to your video and specs.
First off the car sounds a bit flat. That thing should be up on the tire and hauling with what you have.
You were way more aggressive on the Burn out then the run.
That Converter sounds a bit tight but other things can be in play.
First off though is the tire. Did you buy them new and are they the correct tire for a Short solid car. You would want a slightly softer sidewall as you have no suspension. Its a big *** tire. Check your rim screw phasing. Are they the same one rim side to other?? if they are not clocked together this can make your slick go crazy.
Your tire is very important and here is an example. After some tweaking , my friends FED was not leaving as wanted. (Clutch car) Started thinking that the tires were a few years old and even though they looked new seemed an issue. Car wadded the tires sometimes etc..
Bought some new Phoenix that spec'd correctly. (compound-Sidewall). Well the car responded nicely and that problem was solved to free brainspace up to other matters. As a side note. Even though the tires were supposedly matched. We had to air up one tire a bunch for awhile to let it catch up to the other (stretch out). The measured cir***ference was the same when we put almost 3 pounds difference in with the tires new. Now they are within a half pound of each other to get the correct cir***ference.
Not that this is your issue but Its easy to start getting input that can throw you off. Get back to basics.
Put your slips on paper. Do com parables.
Look at your issues and tackle them one at a time. To many changes makes a mess.
Your engine sounds decent it is what it is. I would not personally worry about the engine yet if its consistent and does not show signs of eating itself up.
The Converter and tire have to work together to get your power rightfully and fully utilized.
If it was my car :

• Borrow someones slick to make a p***.
• Plot out the Gear , ******, Converter, Tire. See what you need to what you have. Call a few tire people.
• Is the ****** temp and oil what they should be? What oil you running?
• Have you left off the brake yet? Night and day difference depending on set up. She need to get up on the tire. 6500 through the traps is pretty low. Are you 1/8 mile dragging only? Car would be different on set up and leave from a hand Brake to a ****** brake. Converters are worked more and more critical on a Glide.
• Read the plugs , run the valves, check the timing. You may be surprised. Is the timing stable when the motor is reved and loaded.
• Is the ch***is square? Is your coupler free to slide? Is there wear showing on the coupler? By the way these need to be greased.

Theres lots to talk about. I did not mean to sound slight just hard to offer ideas on issue from a comfy chair far away.
Best of luck ,By the way thats a cool ride you have there.
Luke

 

Ken thank's for the PM One more thing I noticed from one of your post's is your advance . What rpm dose it drop to when you put it in gear ? If is below the rpm that your total timing comes in your motor will only be at 28 degree's .It won't make much power there. This could be a very big part of your problem . If you can lock out the distributor try it you should see a big difference!

 

Very good advice by jim here. Track time and patience is big. Make a log book of your changes (one thing at a time) and record the result.

Good luck and most importantly have fun with it!