Do you have any pictures of the plumbing and bracketry for the turbo? I have been contemplating the same idea for my GMC. I was going to do it to the 228 though. I already have an oil return pump. Do you know off hand how far the drain fitting on the turbo is above the expected oil level in your 5.0? Where are you getting the air for the turbo inlet? A snorkel to the front (to use the MAF)? Or are you picking up air from under the truck (with a harness extension for the MAF)? What kind of air filter are you using (I was thinking of using a commercial appearing one mounted in the front with a K&N type filter inside going for more of a 'work truck' look).
No pics of the plumbing yet because it's no even that far allong yet. I have had it all mocked up thought using flex tubing just to make sure I could make it work. Firstly I am going to blow through the maf, rather than draw through it, that way the maf can stay closer to the engine where it's most important to read it (after it's cooled and flow has settled down), and there is no harness extension. The air pickup I hope to do in the right rear fender in a closed box in front of the wheel, using a cone style K&N filter and vented possible through some louvres on the front of the fender, or some other crafty hole arrangement. The oil return should be OK, the bottom of the turbo is actually higher than the crank, but I'll run a pump if need be. The platform for the turbo was a no brainer, these turbos have a cast alluminium pedastal they sit on, and it came with the turbo - so I will bolt that with isolation mounts to some structure, and the the oil feed and return lines run off the back of it. I should have snapped a pic of that too. The actual air cleaner housing under the hood will probably have all the ugly stuff in it, injection manifold, coil packs etc. Your GMC sounds cool, got any pictures ?
I don't have many pictures of it. We got one of those mythical 'haul it off and keep it' phone calls, Son and duaghter of the orriginal owners, couldn't keep it. Orriginally bought here (Anchorage) and lived all it's life here. We winched it out of the spot it was parked in 1973. Did I bring a camera? No, (what a twit, then again I was too busy running out the door to go get it). Work is still in the planning stages, but I was planning on using a hybrid T3-T4 I have pieced together. It has an axially divided turbine housing, I have been tinkering with a diverter that would close off one half of the housing, sort of a crude VNT. I made a sump out of 1" square tube with a fitting welded to one end. I am unsure what I'm gonna use for a fuel mixer at this point. I have to figure out what to use for transmission, Dad's got a bum left knee and I know he won't want to push a clutch (especially not the stock mechanical Jimmy clutch). It is in line after the Anglia (it's what I was gathering the turbo stuff for, till we changed engines).
Sounds like a kick to me. I can only dream of that mythical phone call - maybe I'll get lucky one day. I've thought about using a custom upper intake on mine mated to the GT40 lower, but I'd want it to look vintage and I'm just not sure how to do that... Any ideas on a log manifold type o thing made to look 50/60'ish ?
There is a thread about a custom upper that uses the truck lower and bolts 3 deuces to the top here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179520 Bring the 'boost pipe' up to the 'carbs' and make a tube type plenum (or a box) to hook to the top of the three carbs. Leave the EFI there and use whatever carbs with no guts (except for the butterflies and throttle shafts of course). Put the throttle position sensor on the center 'carb' or the gas pedal and hide as much of the EFI stuff as you can. If you can mount the turbo under the bedside, you could run the boost tube to the front of the frame (almost) and use copper or aluminum to dissipate as much heat as possible, that would be sort of a no flow loss after cooler (sounds like you have already thought of that though). Then you just have to figure where you want to route the pipe to the plenum on the carbs. You could use the industrial type air filter housing I was talking about and hide the MAF inside, if you insist on blowing through it. I have never heard of anyone trying that, so I'll be paying attention to see how that works out.
In my opinion, in order to be considered traditional, a style/concept/etc would not only have had to exist during a certain period, but would also have to had fairly wide usage. Therefore, for my money, no to turbo.
yeah...who would want to emulate the "innovators"...you might look like a hot rodder... tradition is in approach, execution, and function.
blah, blah, blah clutch, blah, blah blah no turbo... The Mallicoat bros. ditched that 71 series blower, and cleaned house, confused the hell outta the competition in '65...yep '65! and, thought like racers, and as for the "three pedals" thing...what happened when B&M introduced the Hydro?! that was the end of that...It worked better...racers liked better...even back then... Go Turbo! f-'em...do it tasteful, clean, and understated...thats tradition.
Since I had built my own hot rod ten years before you were born, I'm sure you'll understand my disregarding your mini-lecture on tradition.
Congratulations...your older than me. It wasn't a lecture...it was an opinion, you'll find lots of 'em on here!
OK, DIRTY...I sort of agree....but do you think the guys back in the early days of this stuff gave a shit about whether something was "traditional" or not...or even knew the word? In my opinion, their approach was pretty straightforward...everybody either copied everybody (make that LEARNED from everybody) or did stuff outside the box as much as they could afford and had the skills to do in order to beat the competition, be it speed or style. There were no catalogs to order from back then, or "rules". Their execution was determined by who they knew that could give advise and could lend a hand, their own skill levels and imagination, what tools they owned, and the depth of their pocketbooks. Function is sort of subjective, even today, but back then it was pretty much ALL function, whereas today its about keeping something alive and enjoying it. I wonder if what we do today to keep the tradition alive will be considered restoration by future generations....
I think traditional hot-rodding means something different to everyone. To some it means jerking off over their collection of vintage speed parts. To some it means not using ANY part made after a certain year in order to be "period correct". To some it means sitting around the car show on lawn chairs with your wife wearing your matching windbreakers and chatting about cars. To me it means using whatever resources you have to make your car faster. My point? None of us own traditional hot rodding, and as such, none of us are really qualified to dictate what it is to others. If you want your car to be faster, then by all means install the turbo. And if the opinions of a bunch of wannabe greasers on the internet is more important to you than how fast your car is..........you should just start wearing a dress.
your correct...nobody was worried about tradition, when cutting to bits a perfectly good car, just to make it faster, or in their image. and why should they have been? they were trying to improve them. I expect exactly that ( the restorer shift ). We are actually now shifting to a restorer type mentality, i.e. rigid, un-relenting, adherance to rules pre-set. inflexability, fear of deviating from a specific path, resentment of change. I'm sorry...but thats not what guy's were thinking back in the "old" days...maybe some were, but, the ones that were not just followers, usually the ones looking for a way to go faster, were looking for better ways. Better ways, innovation, can be executed with style, not "bling" thats the difference. I see things very simply: Gaudy. Not Gaudy. tasteful. not-tasteful. The former, to me are traditions.
This little clip right here should be copied and pasted after just about every little subject related to our hobby! well put!
And this great quote should be cut and pasted every time the 'traditional' argument gets out of hand ! Really well said. My thoughts one it.. Back in the day (whenever that may have been) Rodders stuck what ever the fastest engine they could find was into something they could afford and chopped and modded it however they wanted to please their own eyes or make it cut the wind better. So from my perspective, me sticking a 5.0 AWD turbo under something old IS my version of traditional. But my traditional isn't your traditional, and I am glad for that. I love hearing all the different takes though, I just think the most important thing to remember is what your goal is, and to know it well ahead of making sparks.
Here's an image from a Boston World of Wheels '07 thread. They look good on this build. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153394
Sweet. Love the turbo projects. I don't care about the whole traditional thing. I was curious back when I started this thread. I would like to keep some clean and traditional looking to a certain degree but I think Turbos are cool. I would edit the title of the thread if I could.
Anyone have pics of small block chevy setups? What makes a good turbo motor? High revving? low compression? How are carbed turbo motors setup?
Well I guess this is about the best place to introduce my turbo powered project. It's a cut up 48 Chevy sedan that is now a fenderless pick up cab. that will be powered by a 2.3 liter Turbo Coupe engine and drivetrain. My turbo will be a focal point, with the fabbed intake and header, the motor will look like it belongs in that big engine bay. To make you feel bad, it should make around 400 ponies and still get in the mid to upper 20mpg around town and 30's on the open road. It's gonna make a good daily driven shop truck. Is it "traditional"? Yes and no... I've built it to what I consider cool, so that's good enough for me. I've done my best to make a somewhat "high tech" motor look like it belongs. The whole project has made everyone that sees it drop their jaw and say "WOW". If I can do that, I guess I've done pretty good. I hope to get it somewhat done for Billetproof, but it's got a way to go. It started as a shell at the beginning of November, so I guess I'm doing good so far.
Thank Stone, thats a great picture. Gives me some more ideas on my intake setup. I found some info a company that was doing AWD conversions to Ford F1's back in the 49 thru 52 era - they actually called them Rangers. No turbos on them though sadly. Wyle - that thing is wild good luck !
I'm ankle deep in turbos right now. I joined www.theturboforums.com and spent almost 24 hours worth reading. I borrowed two books, Maximum Boost by Corky Bell and Turbochargers by Hugh MacInnes. Both great books but Bell's book is a bit more informative and easy to follow. I am pulling the tired 427 BBC from my green truck in favor of a fresh bottom end. Here is the run down so far: 74-90 BBC Gen IV four bolt main block 3.766" stroke 4340 Forged Scat Crank 6.138" H-beam Scat rods with upgraded ARP rod bolts Arias flat top pistons for 8.5:1 CR Hight temp coatings on the crowns and low friction coatings everywhere else Custom ground 275-284 Isky hyddraulic roller on 115* lobe centers HV oil pump. Top end I already have but will update a few things: Brodix Race Rite BB-O heads Felpro MLS head gaskets Crane roller rockers and Isky pushrods Then for the fun stuff, because I'm shooting for some street reliability over tradition I am going EFI. Probably Accel DFI with wideband and datalogging. Turbos and such, www.vsracing.net has a killer deal on Master Power T-70 turbos. Do your home work and one of these turbos would power just about any early engine. I am also going to pick up Tial WG and Blow off valves as well as a Water-to-Air intercooler because of space restrictions. This combo should give me a street friendly 800 HP or better! And when it comes to having fun a twist of the boost controler sends that number skyward. Are turbos tradional, well yes in the purest form.
I'm slowly collecting parts on a hot rod project. I was talking with a firend who is a diesel mechanic and has a couple non hamb friendly turbo vehicles. One being AWD. I told him I was looking for info on turbos and small block setups. He said " You got a motor don't you? I have a turbo I'll give you." SO maybe I can build a turbo SBC for a project with his help.
Stone - it seems we're going down similar paths, I am going to be running AWD and a turbo, whilst trying to keep it tasteful hiding anything ugly and modern. Have you looked into transfer cases and all that stuff ? Turbos from diesels can work really well, the compressor charts for the 7.3 powerstroke turbo I am using look perfect for a mostly stock 5.0 and will flow plenty AND spool up low (1800-2000 full boost) Your friend should be able to hook you up nicely !
the soldiers that came home from war and started building the first hot rods were anything but "traditional". I think you can pay homage to the past and still hang a turbo on something. a pure period correct car sans billet junk with a turbo/turbos and a bunch of heat wrap should still pass the "traditional" litums test IMO. If turbos and billet tribal flame wheels and steering wheels had been available back in the day, the hard core guys would have passed on the queer wheels, but I promise you they would have hung a hooter or two on their rods. build it like they wish they could have
I work with the son of the guy who built and owns that Hudson, they have some CRAZY Hudson stuff - there is one really ugly one with a giant hemi in it. The draw through turbo setup seems a bit scarey to me, one backfire through the inlet and all that compressed gas/air mix is going to blow that turbo to pieces - but Rudy is a smart fella and I am sure he has it under control.
The Jalopy Journal
