U WANTED MADE IN U.S.A., or SHINN FU??

Hey guys,
As a Tools & Equipment rep for NAPA I'm very familiar with most of the manufacturing marketplace and I can safely tell you that almost all power tools (impacts, air tools, electric grinders, welders, most hand tools) are made overseas, usually China. What is interesting is that China manufacturing will make your product for you just as cheap or just as high quality as you are willing to pay. Many companies own plants there and just use the labor. Other mfg. is farmed out to the lowest bidder.
The key is to find the happy median. The problem is that getting accurate info is unbelieveably hard. Most mfg doesn't want to admit that they have most stuff made overseas, much less if it is farmed out or made in house.
People have ragged on about HF. They are an example, in most cases, of lowest bidder. They are good if you need a tool for a one-time use. NAPA, as well as AZ, OR ADV, ect..., all have cheap lines AND NAPA has top quality lines. The difference is price. Why do we have so many duplicate lines of tools? We all have it because of the consumer. That's right, us!
We want the least expensive items available. And there are folks that will argue with you that the "lowest bidder" item is the best deal and they are flat wrong. Some folks are just cheap.
I'm no different than any of you. We all work hard for our money and want it to go as far as it can. But I always look at the bottom line price first. Then I think about whether I want the value associated with (or missing from) the product. In most cases I will take the value and pay the higher price. The old saying is true, you DO get what you pay for. Sometimes it is not that there won't be a problem with a product, it's what the distributor will do for you to make it better. If I have an unhappy dealer, he has many avenues of recourse to explore for satisfaction. That is not the case with many "online, internet, or garage sale" items.
Bottom line, ask a ton of questions before you invest your dollars in a piece of equipment: How much, warranty time, service center, distributor back up and support. Is it a big corp with many avenues for recourse or a one-man shop with everything on the line in that one sale?

 

Correct. If a manufacturer picks up it's manufacturing plant and moves it you will likely receive the same quality that you became used to. If a manufacturer farms it out, you are most likely going to get junk.

IRWIN bought VICE-GRIP and now are made in China. I don't care if the quality is the same, I won't buy it.

 

The US economy was screwed before anyone
ever heard of Obama. And it will only get worse.

 

Actually I have 3 degrees, none greater than a bachelor's.

I went to school because I wanted to know, I worked blue collar work the majority of my life because that is what I prefer to do. Although because of my health my last few years I did operate a desk in the design industry. I noticed something that we should be ashamed to admit, Engineers leaving school from India and Pakastan were not only better prepared to do the job but also more willing to do the job a very high percentage of the time. They get payed the same as their American counterparts and often advanced faster in the field because they were more apt to apply themselves.

I had a Trig Professor once that would occaisionaly throw in a wrong term to see who was paying attention. Glad to see that you are paying attention.

 

How does being anti-union mean you support eliminating wage and labor laws?

This is a typical left-leaning argument, you take a guy's point and assign him the most extreme opposite views when they've said nothing of the sort. All it really does is make you look like a moron.

Unions are not really necessary now because we have wage and labor laws to protect the worker we did not have in the time of the company store and 16 hour shifts. The only field that's lacking some of these protections is in medicine. Plenty of people work non-union jobs and make good money and are not abused by the company - because with a free market, if the company treats its' employees too badly, they'll go work for someone else.

Unions get badmouthed because of some of the more asinine things that go on in union shops. Guys stopping in the middle of unloading a truck for their mandated break or lunch - leaving a driver to wait an hour for them to unload like 2 more crates. Educational unions where teachers aren't fired, but go sit in a lounge all day because they've done something or other that they're not fit to teach either. Demands for benefits with little or no employee contribution, riding on the backs of the taxpayer or making the labor so expensive the company is no longer profitable (then standing there wondering why the company moved production to China or Mexico). It's not usually the average union worker that's the problem, it's the union leadership that negotiates these things.

Now if you want to explain how to get the union leaders to pull their heads out of their asses, all for it, but enough of this ridiculous bullshit about wanting to go back in time to 1875.

 

There is a lot bigger reason to not buy products made in China than quality but that would be political. There are other forums dedicated to political discussion better suited for that discussion.

Someone once said that you only get what you pay for. If you want quality you are likely going to pay a price for it. There are products manufactured in China that are very high quality and some that are not. no different than there are products manufactured here that are high quality and some that are not. We see threads about that all the time.

Made in America doesn't make it better just made here. Made in America with pride in workmanship makes it better.

 

I should have clarified, I've never, NEVER, worked out of a Hall, I've always worked Union jobs where the entire facility was covered by the same labor contract. I've been on jobs where it's been call out and seniority based, and yeah, there's been some bullshit on those jobs, but no more than what the company was willing to tolerate. I don't profess to know it all, I just know what I experienced working in a plant of 1200 workers and a smaller one with 300 workers. I wouldn't have walked in the door without a Union in the smelter, I've seen non Union smelters and I don't want any part of that. I enjoyed knowing that there was a better chance of coming home safely at the end of the day because I could call out safety violations without fear of reprisal. I earned my position at my plants, without having to compete with lapdogs and kiss ass brown nosing losers getting all the skatework.

Anyone who says that Unions aren't necessary has never stepped foot inside a smelter or mill. They've never seen the carnage of a mistep on a green chain. They've never seen a log lifted off a mans skull because the yard boss was screaming for vengeance. Don't pigeonhole me with the liberals, because I believe a man has to earn his wages, but don't think for a second I'd work a non-union job and risk my life. I'm talking heavy industry here, not grocery workers or teachers, those are issues I don't know anything about and won't comment on because of that.

 

Who says I didn't? We took a huge paycut to get our smelter back up and running in the late '80's, and we never got back to the wages my father saw in the Seventies. Tell me, what is a living wage? How much should I give up to make sure a stockholder gets his? I'm the one busting my ass, risking my life... was it my choice? Yes it was, but why is the stockholder, who provides NOTHING to the bottom line worth more than me? How can a company shut down plants, lay off American workers, and then justify the Golden Parachutes and bonuses we all saw in the '90's?

In 2001, I made $17.65 an hour to cast aluminum logs. Is that too much money? I have scars all over my body from my job, I have permanent nerve damage because of my job. Was it too much to ask that I have a little extra so I could give my family what they wanted without having to work 6-7 days a week? Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching, I loved my work, I loved the people I worked with, and I wouldn't change anything.

Hey, I got one for you: do you know why there are absolutely NO aluminum smelters operating at their '90's capacity in the Pacific Northwest? (...and I'm referring to the one or two that are still open out of the dozen or so that used to exist). ENRON. Greedy corporate slugs looking to raise the bottom line profits managed to create the brown outs in California of the late '90's and put such a premium on electricity that it became unprofitable to make aluminum. We gave up wages, benefits, we did everything we could as a Union to try and keep the company afloat, but the profits were too high to compete with.

So..... long story short, if you were on a Union job where you were told not to work, it was your choice to stay there and play along. Not all Unions can be judged by your personal experiences.

 

Hey T.R., sorry for my part in sidetracking your thread... if you come up with a plan for an American made engine stand, I'll buy one. Small American manufacturing is still possible, here's a product from my old hometown: http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=fm_2TcarC4bksQOu2JTICw&ved=0CE8Q8wIwAQ

 

Let's not degrade the thread with personal attacks please. Spell check isn't perfect either

 

Damn man, what a killer idea!

If someone tries to start their very own manufacturing, I want to offer any help I can give with industrial controls. I'd love nothing more than to see someone get a product going from this thread!

 

That is why OSHA was invented, not your beloved unions.

 

i wanna see some hot rods.....

 

It's WISHA up here in Washington, and it's very strict, which makes no difference until someone gets seriously injured or killed. I'm talking about PREVENTING these "accidents" before they happen, which WISHA (or OSHA) can't do a damn thing about, and not losing your job because you cost a little production. That IS what my "beloved" Unions did for us.

Why be a smart ass? I wasn't talking down to you, was I?

 

Definitely, there is no reason for personal attacks. Sure fire way to get your ass kicked off the board.

AHEM,

 

Occupational Safety Health Administration (OSHA) actually does prevent accidents. However after an accident they do investigate. OSHA offers "consultation" visits as many times in a year as you wish. There are some wait times obviously because you have to recieve the report and correct any existing problems before they come back.

So non union jobs are inherently unsafe due to the lack of organized labor. That is absolute BS and everyone knows it.

Safety is everyones priority. Unions did not create safety, they did have a hand in creating safety policies but that was in the 1800's. This is the now, not 1895 and we have federal laws that prevent those horrible work conditions.


Back on topic.

I wish there really was a Callahan Auto Parts. Zalinsky would have had the pads made in China so I would not have bought from him.

Any progress on the engine stand designs?

 

You're right, I'm wrong. Cheers.

 

Ah he's alright. Don't sweat it I'm not.

Rich would WISHDA be the Washington Intense Saddle Horse Association as opposed to the Oklahoma Saddle Horse Association?

Someone should note something here. Unions are not the root of all evil. My dad was a UAW member until the day that he died. He always put in a honest days work, I have been affiliated with the AFLCIO myself in two different affiliated unions. I haven't cheated my employers that I am aware of. And there are no doubt a lot of union employees right here on the HAMB that do have sense enough to poor water out of a boot and have more than earned their keep.


We could spend the rest of our lives blaming unions or corporations for our problems but that won't solve the problems. Time is better spent finding a solution for a problem than to find someone to blame for it.

 

Polaco
You are a gentleman sir.

 

No Rich, where cool, but thank you and everyone for keeping this alive. Thanks pork-n-beaner just for being a great friend. Thank the Mods for letting it run!!! elPolacko's video's were AWESOME!!!! I hope EVERONE had a chance to see them. Thank you everyone who has contributed, GOD bless you all, and GOD bless America!! Together we can make a difference, TR

 

Hey, if you started the company, made it successful by busting your ass until you could hire employees to help, paid these employees the going rate for their input to your products or services and were able to pay yourself an exorbitant amount of money each year, all that makes you is successful! Doesn't make you a slave driver, abusive or manipulative. If an employee doesn't like what he/she's getting paid, and it's the going rate for what they do, it's up to them to address that - like others have said on here, anyone can be the CEO.

Steve

 

Try China. I've lived here two years now. Never in my life have I seen such lazy people.

 

The new Summit catalog came the other day and is showing some Crane Cam part numbers. Summit is also showing cams, etc. by Howards Cams ... who are these guys? The original Howard Cams folded back in the 60's or early 70's ... someone buy the name?

 

I have heard that Crane went under but I haven't had any problem buying Crane parts. Someone else said that they cranked back up, so maybe instead of going under they just reorganized. I do know they had some problems with lifter quality I had some problems with a set in the '90s and a very good friend that is more well informed than I said not to buy their lifters. Never the less if they went under and are back in the game that is a good thing for me, I have always liked Crane cams.

I think that someone bought the rights to Howard's cams. I imagine that they got more than just the name, from what I have heard you can buy the old grinds from them.

I really like seeing people cranking up the old names and go fast parts. Done correctly it can be a good thing not only for our economy but for us as a group. Take camshafts for instance, take an old grind with the old design technology and couple that with modern machining technology. You can get the more accurately ground cam with the ability to duplicate it the same way every time. Basically you get what the old grinder envisioned but to the Nth degree. Perfect ramps, exact lifts and duplicated time and time again.

 

OK color me stupid. What does that little pointy thing with the two dots mean?

 

Crane got bought by S&S, after the last owners
bled it dry and screwed it into the ground.

 

A bump in the road???.... I'll delete it... Sorry beaner..



It's gone!

 

Nothin' to be embarrased about I am just not up on a lot of things and thought I would ask.