Ultralight cars...how low can you go?...

If you use the 215, IMHO the others would put you over weight. The Ford 302 comes close if you dress it with aluminum heads and intake, might cheat some too and use an aluminum flywheel, lord knows you won't need much flywheel mass in 1300lb.

 

I have a bud that has a trad bucket style roadster- 1400lb at the local scale-
350/350
'57 car 9"
15 x 8" and 15 x 6" steelies with 10.00 & 6.70 Firestones
Jeep Saginaw steering box
modified '40 Ford front
steel '23ish Dodge touring made into a bucket, with a steel box on back
2" x 3" box tube rails
copper/brass radiator

not one part on it was selected for weight savings and its already below 1500

 

This is pretty light...

 

Aaron51chevy That looks cool from here, what plant is that?

 

Some pretty light stuff out there. Our roadster tips the scales at ~1800 lbs.

 

First, I want to design it. Second, what's the 0-60 time an that arrangment?

If I can build what I want in an electric, it should be good for sub 5 sec 0-60 and 14 sec 1/4 mile times. To achieve that, I have to lose a pound of car for every pound of battery.
A mazda rotary is super light for the power, but it still needs a cooling system, a clutch, 5 gears. Most of that is unnecessary with electric power. Electric power also predates the wankel, so I have a better defense against the traditional police.

 

But electric motors don't make cool hot rod noises.

 

It's a chevette motor! With a 3 speed behind it. Not a lot of power but there's not a lot of car either. A T5 will bolt up as well which I may change to in the future.

 

Was there a thread on it, or pics posted before, I seem to recall seeing that picture now that you mention the mighty chevette power.

 

Here's some numbers just for thought. The Fly is a 29 Ford steel body with 6" removed. The floors are all aluminum and it has a sbc and an aluminum glide, with full cage (mild steel .134" wall) weighs 1880.

 

How do you figure that? The target is 1300 lbs. You're starting with a car that weighs in at approximately 1400 lbs (full-fendered) with a heavy chuck of cast iron 4 cylinder and a planetary transmission that together probably weighs in at 850 lbs. Replace it with a stock cast iron headed 302 (450 lbs.) and a C4 (140 lbs including torque converter), and you should already be below the target weight! Pull off the fenders/running boards and top irons and you should be well below the target weight, doing nothing else.

 

Sorry I read it as 'Under 1300Lb' Old habbits die hard I guess. I figure 900 Lb is under 1300 and it's more what I had in mind.

 

Ummm...well, OK. But that's not really what you indicated, at least its not how I read it:

"True, but how do we make a regular sized rod very light without exotic materials or chassis designs? I'd like 2 seats and decent performance to 70 or 80 mph. Open cockpit is a given. Tall, skinny tires, a minimum drive train, adequate brakes."

 

I would agree that 900 lbs, in that configuration, would be very hard to reach.

 

I guess "decent" performance is pretty subjective. I could pick up a T if I wanted to put around...

That's why you put playing cards in the spokes!

 

I saw a guy at one of the Pleasanton Goodguys shows who had made a "Legends" oval track car street legal. Legends are like little 1/2 size '30s looking little race cars that resemble '32 Fords, '37 Fords, '37 Chevys, etc. They have a large motorcycle engine. They're pretty fun to watch at Altamont Raceway. When there's about forty of them flying by, it sounds like a swarm of bees. They're really quick and they corner well and the racing is really competitive. So they can be made street legal I guess because I know at least one guy did it, but they only hold one person.

 

Yeah, there are the Legends Cars. Mine was 1180Lbs w/ 1/2 cell of gas. FJ / XJ 1200 Yamaha, air cooled 5 speed, no reverse (they were available though, just not legal for competition here). Wouldn't do too well with 'parade speed' without enough electric fans to make it sound like a rolling air conditioner (ask me how I know). Of course for street use you could set it up for water injection, that would take the heat out at least.

 

Sprint cars were mentioned earlier. Here is one "undressed" to give you an idea of what is there. No transmission, no clutch, no battery, no starter, aluminum 410 SBC. This one has no titanium trick pieces so it weighs 1365 lbs ready to race with both wings on it.

 

You can do a whole lot more than put around in a T with a B engine! We need to get you over to the banger meetings.

But, it you want a strong 0-60, why not a T modified with a SBF? You can still bring that in under 1300 lbs.

 

any body ever think of using a harly engine i dont know how much they weight but it would definatly have a cool sound and i know you can get trans with reverse but there probably expensive

 

The trans you would need is like $1500 bucks.

While it would be cool, it would be expe$ive to make this combo work. IMO.

If you want light weight and tons of power, the most logical source is a motorcycle. It's not very traditional, but it's the best option I think.

Hayabusa's would be the #1 source. Tons, I mean TONS, of aftermarket performance parts. 160hp and 100 ft-lbs right out of the bike. Need more? Get a turbo. 350 hp is easily within reach. Hell there are 500hp 'Busa's around. A six speed sequntial transmission and a combined engine/trans weight of maybe ~250 lbs. This would also be expensive though.

 

Any pictures to post?

 

Very cool, and not far off what I'm shooting for with my '68 Fiat powered single seater. I'm hoping for 1,000 lbs ready to run.

 

I remember a lightweight roadster in one of the mags, must have been at least 10 yrs ago, they ran a helicopter engine. One of the best engine options in terms of pound/hp. But, I suppose the tranny situation would be tricky.

 

Great discussion. Not all hotrods have to be built with a bellybutton SBC, powerslide, and 9" rearend mounted to semi elliptics in a repop 32 frame with a 4" dropped front axle on a buggy spring. The "true" pioneers that everyone wants to emulate now were the actual racers in the late 40's and early 50's who were always thinking "outside the box".

I'm all for a small helicopter turbine engine, sprint car frame and axles. Even with a steel track "T" nose and body you should be in the 1000 to 1500 pound range. Do your homework and it would be stupid fast and handle like- well, like a sprint car. If you don't believe it could be fast, ask Leno about his motorcycle next time you're in Burbank. I understand they're not much for fuel economy, though.

 

The other thought that comes to mind is snowmobile engines. Weight is very critical in sleds, especially if you're hillclimbing like we do out here. To give you an idea how critical it really is, Yamaha makes a sled powered by their R1 motorcycle (~150hp), and it's a dog because it's TOO heavy in the powder!!!

A snowmobile twin can easily make 200hp, I've seen 300hp naturally aspirated. But a 2-stroke would sound funny in a hotrod....

 

i'm not sure if they are still around but several years ago a company named sunchaser, in arizona i thimk, built a 32 roadster. it was electric powered. the motoe was bolted to a ford top loader tranny so that with the exception of motor and batteries the car looked like a regular street rod. the company sold adaptor plates and motor kits. this thing really smoked the tires. not sure about range though.
it was featured in HOT ROD or SRTEET RODDER, can't rember which.
on another note if you are really interested in electric cars , mother earth news used to sell a book outlining the same type of conversion for any sandard shift vehicle.obviously the smaller the vechcle the better the performance.
as far as mc engines go find a legends racer and pick his brain. a guy in shreveport la. was running a harley engine mated to a mazda tranny(5 speed) and rearend in his racecar. one of only two harley powered legends at the time.(about 5years ago).
also don't forget the time honored traditional hot rod method of cutting and drilling to remove weight.
good luck and show some pics of your project if you ever get started.

 

coors light and speedway motors built a duece with a helicopter engine. corbon fiber, aluminum parts, computer controls,laser imaging capabilities,trunk converted to an anacoic(spelling?) chamber to act as a muffler.
the dam thing was awesome. problem being they built it about 20 years ago at the cost of one million dollars. they billed it as the million dollar radster and both companies used it for advertising purposes. it was on the back cover of the speedway catalog.1989 i think.

 

These are 1300 pounds and a real car as opposed to a wood framed cart or something. No space age technology, just some good design. Maserati Tipo 61

 

The "old" California law about under 1500 lbs= no fenders needed, was usually met with the help of some hot rod friendly scales.......but that was with a"T" bucket running a V/8 engine.

A Lotus 7 is very light...........follow their lead.

My 27 modified weighs 2020# at a local scrap metal scale, with 4 gal of gas in the tank, and all fluids. I don't know why it is that heavy. I didn't try to make it light plus it has a SBC/TH350 + Champ QC + 1/8 wall 2x4 tubing + chassis Engineering front axle........but that's a long way from 1500#.