Technical "Upgrading" for saftey vs. being period correct, why not both?

I am building my car to suit what I want from it- a little like the Civil War re-enactment, perhaps more so because like that era I was born well after the HAMB cut-off and have no way to recall what it was like back in the day, and have no glory days to re-live.
So, I have taken the best flavor of the car that I could, rolled with what I could within my budget (unless you go poke, unscrew panels or pop the hood to look at the 10si you don't see the changes, not that there are many).
It's sitting low on blocks and shorter coils (yup, that fits in ok), the interior is redone in material that was available but not popular at the time, it's running the 12V variants of the same model electrical parts and the hidden bits like the correct radio rebuilt with the same parts just different voltage heaters never even gets seen unless you remove it from under the dash and pull it apart.

So, yes. Building a car that fits to the time frame I understand. Building a period correct piece, yes. However time doesn't stand still and a hotrod only freezes in time when it's forgotten and not driven any more... Parked up to rot usually or shined up in a museum. A driven car evolves, and I've tried to keep that evolution within the rules but also within the scope of my pocket book. I've built it to enjoy, it makes other people smile, everything on it works and it's not too bad to drive either.
That makes it my little window into what a lot of you guys can still remember. That's what I wanted and it's very nearly there.

Keep the old flame alive but you gotta pass the baton sooner or later.
I joined on here because I respect the memory, knowledge and understanding that comes along with it. Think about that.


Phil

 

I'm not so anal about period correct that I wont use some modern parts that make my cars safer, or greatly improved for driving. I enjoy putting lots of miles on my hotrods, and I want to do so without worrying they wont stop, or handle well. So compromise is OK with me as long as my builds are mostly period correct.

 

Doesn't that Barracuda have disc brakes upgraded on it?

 

That Barracuda has mostly modern parts, including front disc brakes, and also a parachute. If it were period correct, it would have no front brakes at all, but also never be driven on the street. We have to make compromises. It does have a 1960s single pot master cylinder. And a working parking brake. And rear drums.

My Chevy II also has front discs. It'll do 135 in the quarter mile, and does it often. But it has a 1960s single pot master cylinder, as well as a working parking brake, and rear drums. Again, if it were period correct, it would have no front brakes, and not be street driven. It's a car that never would have been built in the 1960s. But it could have been, and it would have been the baddest street car around.

 

Yellowbullet will get you there.
I think that the point of the thread at least as I understand it is that a car can be made to what the new-stalgia crowd considers to be safe and remain traditional.

I do not build what that crowd would consider to be safe but my cars start and stop and the lights work.

 

I've always built "hot rods", cars that look fast, and I've always used what I have. My cars look the part, sound the part, but are built to handle, stop and turn safely.
Mary is off topic here, but only if I tell you guys, pictures of her....well, lets say she'll pass muster. She looks the part, nothing street roddy about her.
Pinto suspension front and rear, minivan seat, 70's steering column, abs plastic in the roof panel and door panels, but, I repeat, she looks the part and is the part.
My 29 Chrysler, early chev frame, late model steering box, 350-350 combo, minivan seat, I could continue, but here they are, period hot rods, look fast, look right. It's not what parts you use, to me its exactly like the old days, run whatcha brung, make it better and faster, thats the basic element of hot rodding.

 

I think the reason that we have 3 separate forums is due to the fact that some of what we build is traditional-esque or inspired as opposed to totally traditional. Obviously there are things that just won't fly. An LS in a hoodless coupe for example although a Boss in an exposed situation may not even get a blink LOL. Some of it falls under don't ask don't tell.

I think that we base a lot of what we call traditional on what we can find historically. Little books, what has been handed down. There are things for example that I remember from my childhood that would not necessarily be considered traditional, part of that is due to the fact that while I know it got done on the later end of what we call traditional it is not confirmable via historical publications or no one remembers it. Part of that is also due to the fact that memory is often selective. I don't have a problem with it wither way, I know what is acceptable and that is good enough for me.

This needs to be said, it does not fall into the purview of this particular thread but it still needs to be said. Our response to questions and the things that we post should be tempered out of respect for those who make this forum happen. We have mods and administrators who have earned that much from all of us.

 

Here here beaner, I meant no disrespect to the mods, don't mean to cheat them either. I was just trying to point out that, as you said, maybe what you see isn't neccesarily the way it was, or the way you thought.
In my experience, the old guys I knew used what they had as do you, to make a car or bike faster and in some ways better. Few could afford the southern california go fast on the lake bed stuff, but saying that, my style is traditional, I like the look, even if it hides some sins, for me it is the intent behind the build that shows the era of the style of car being built.
I also want a car I can drive for hours and know that if it breaks, my friend Beaner probably has what I need to get back out of his yard and continue on. Also the root of hot rodding.
I'm not defending the use of non traditional parts, merely pointing out that the pursuit of speed was based upon using or modifying what was available, eg., if an LS were available at the time, Doane Spencer, Gray Baskerville et al, would have used the engine to their benefit. (good thing they couldn't), if smallblocks were available, same result, rodders went to overhead valve engines in pursuit of horsepower, not because they were a particular brand, but because they became available.
Mary is built from a $400 car that was available, a solid axle setup here in the frozen north would set me back $1500, but all the suspension in her cost me $400, so I compromised and spent my time making her look the part. That also is the basis of traditional hot rodding, so I guess yeah, you do what you need to, to play in this sandbox.

 

Exactly. Perhaps my statement was aimed at those who don't know. in part it was aimed at me I know for fact that over the years I have posted things that I look back at and deem them to be disrespectful. I am not ashamed of it but I know that I say things (post?) that sound way better in my head than they do coming our of my mouth. LOL

BTW my friend when you break down in my yard finding the parts and making the repair is going to be based on when the beans are going to be done. If you catch my drift.

 

I think you nailed it for me personally, with the exception of air suspension, which I personally see no issue with in certain instances. Basically every heavy-hitting custom of the last 20 years has it.

The fact of the matter is the hot rod and custom guys are playing different games when it comes to this kind of stuff. A/C on a traditional hot rod is a huge no, whereas it's perfectly acceptable on a custom. That's just one example. Guys with customs and full-bodied cars have ability to hide the non-traditional stuff whereas the hot rod guys have it out there for all to see. Generally speaking, if it's not visible, I don't see an issue with it, especially when there may be little-to-no impact on the outward appearance of traditional styling, but have significant improvement on the use or performance of the car.

I also can appreciate guys who are hardcore traditionalists, who completely reject new parts of all varieties, I'm just not one of them. It's been my experience that when it gets to that level, hot rodding has basically reverted back to restoration, and it's also been my experience that those guys usually (with some exception of course) don't use their cars as significantly as others who have made some concessions to improve drivability.

 

Interesting thing about air suspension. I am opposed to the hopper or the lay frame air suspension. I am not opposed to bellows bags or helper bags even in an exposed situation. A couple of the famous builders were playing with them by the later '50 and I can see good benefit with them on a coil sprung hot rod for performance suspension tuning.



I think that there is a place for restorations when it comes to rods or customs. Some vehicles need to be preserved (ask Mr @Moriarity about this) but then you have to also consider the other school of thought.

Rods and customs both got upgraded. I am one that thinks that if you are building to a certain era or have a car with providence then not bending the rules may be extremely important. But if you are building a car to drive you may want to recognize that most cars were not stagnant. Old race cars got peddled often sans drive train for example and got upgraded to fit class and or the ideas of the guy that was racing it. Customs got wheel changes and or paint when they changed owners and hot rods got one of everything done to them to remain cutting edge. This is not to say that if we intend to remain traditional that we would find a roller in a barn and slam a Coyote in it or digital gauges. But we may find a late '40s era roller and upgrade it to a '60s era car or even mid '50s. I may for example find an A V8 with a stuck motor or no motor at all and shove a tall deck 383 in it loose the crescent gauges for air craft style gauges. Hell I may even add dual jelly jars and swinging peddles. Basically leaving the rest of the styling alone.

We all come from different backgrounds and have different desires. We can build an upgraded car without loosing its charm if we just try a little bit.

 

Some cars wreak of gold chainers. Pretty easy to spot. Every chingas that is uber rare. Stuff that even a guy back then wouldn't have accumulated on one build. They send out people with checkbooks looking for that part made of unobtanium.

It sucks because they are just doing it for the "look at me factor". Drives the prices up for guys that really appreciate the vintage pieces.

I do struggle with this same thing. I love the looks of traditional cars, but once you go down that road, you have to go all the way.

That's my problem, everything adds up. I don't want to run a 3 speed 39 Ford tranny behind a 390 Caddy. I will shred it. I have to make concessions since I scored a bell housing for a Caddy that mates up to a Tremec. It will wear on me though....

 

I'm finding all of these replies are great food for thought. There's many a time when I'm just out doing errands and there will be a hot rod or classic car in my rear view mirror or going by me in the next lane. Maybe it's just me but the last thing I think of when I see this is whether the car is period correct or not. I just enjoy seeing their ride.

 

A couple of years ago there was a discussion that centered on "is your car HAMB friendly?" My answer then, and for this discussion about period correctness, is the same- from a distance, yes.

 

Just put a tall old looking shifter on it with a old ball without the shift pattern on it. Just looking you'll never know the difference. Just like the Lokar style automatic shifter, if you don't look close, you don't realize it's an automatic.

 

I just had this discussion with my dad an hour ago. He is 82 and he asked why in the world I wanted to put a Caddy in my 36 when there are better, more efficient options out there. It's foreign to him that I would want to go backwards to when he was a kid.

 

Before my dad passed I was talking to him about running a FH in my 36. He answered like your dad did.
In fact he was the one who talked me into an OT suspension Lol.

 

I should explain He wasn’t a hotrodder, but was always trying to improve on what he had. Not having a lot of free cash, much was made with what could be pieced together from other parts. Heck, ram power steering on his forklift, etc. once he figured out how to swap an alternator into something, all the generators went by the way side. Under dash AC in all old trucks was the norm.

 

"Just put a tall old looking shifter on it with a old ball without the shift pattern on it. Just looking you'll never know the difference. Just like the Lokar style automatic shifter, if you don't look close, you don't realize it's an automatic."

Better put a phony clutch pedal in to keep the critics away.

 

I better dig through my stuff and locate a clutch pedal for mine! No tall shifter here, but I did make the shifter for my automatic trans from an old Hurst shifter handle I had here. So now I need to find that other pedal, and figure how to hang it under the dash?

 

. . . better having it come up thru the floor.

 

@Robert J. Palmer look at what you started!!!!

 

This is want happens when people don't read the first post.

I never criticized anyone. I simply showed a having modern safety and period correct parts, personally I don't feel unsafe with drum brakes, and a single master cylinder. So people do.

I do feel unsafe around 95% of the people on the road today whether I am diving my 53 Chevy or my modern truck.

 

You asked why people didn’t use period correct parts for parts safety related. You got your answer. Has nothing to do with reading the post.

 

Probably only a few folks here would even know what a stitch counter was. F&I war for me. More traditional than your Rev War

 

They all look good @65 from 50 feet don't they.

When I was in high school one of the guys had a '59 ford (not one of Fords best looking cars) that we painted copper with brushes. Looked like we painted it with a broom but out on the highway that old Ford was sweet as sugar pie.

 

That would really look weird with my hanging brake pedal next to it!

 

LOL I have actually seen old hot rods with one through the floor and one hangin'. Usually it was the brake through the floor and the clutch hangin'. I may even go so far as to say it is traditional.

 

I guess my point is safety and performance as my 40 ford has disc brakes ford 9 inch rear but since our site is 64 and older and hot rods are built using what ever improved performance there is good parts from this era.

 

I once heard that F&I is where old Rev War reenactors go to die Mike