Happy New Year to everyone- You guys are the ones I've been told to seek out- if anyone knows you guys know. Here's my headache- In short I have a 1948 Ponty ( 4 door) yes I know- heard it all. Tech part info for you-- It's still a 6v. 8 cyl. negative ground. I need to replace parts or upgrade the parts to my windows-- I have just been informed there are parts to the regulator and other stuff missing..( thanks to the last shop) I by no means call myself a mechanic- but I can do mechanical stuff- I was a locksmith for years. Here's where you guys come in-- I need to either find the correct parts or modify my Doors/windows and/or upgrade to 12 volt power windows-- Starting with the info that no shop in this area has actually converted windows and would only be guessing and figuring it out as they go at 85+ an hour. I do have all new gl*** already cut and ready to go in- I also have a 12 v. retro gen. from powermaster but some time ago was advised to keep it 6v. Has anyone modified windows? and has anyone actually converted from 6-12v. I know the lights need to be changed-But seems the shops can't agree and have had prices from $500-1000. Dome say don't have the starter rewiring others do. Some say I need the voltage regulator,other say I don't-- I'm sure I would need to change the coil-6v-12v-- and some say I need to switch to an electronic dist. others say they don't make one for my car so keep the dist. I have and don't need to mess with it. So you can see the confusion on my part- all I know for sure if not done properly it could cause a fire down the road...
Happy New year seems like you are trying to ask a bunch of questions at one time. Break it down to separate questions or post. Also find a site with support for your particular model. Or find the body manual and shop manual for your year model. Most times you can find images of how it all goes together. Windows? First, for the windows, just find replacement regulators, similar year GM cars will have the same ones. Take pictures of yours when they come out to double check. In regulators there not much to them ( crank mech. rollers and tracks) It should be one of them things you try to do yourself. so you can learn about it. Even at 2 hours per door which is low @85.00 a hour your looks at around 700.00 for that service. Let alone wiring some power ones There is point where people spend more that the car overall is worth to fix a part. Then they turn around and try to sell the car for X amount THEY spent on it. Please don’t get caught up in this. If you do it yourself you can learn about it, and save yourself some money. Windows is nothing more that some bolts and alignments and some funky angles to get the windows and regulators in and out. Don’t forget the gl*** tape for the bottom of the window to set into the track If you find a local parts car, make sure to get all the parts inside the doors, you might be missing a stop of a part of a track, even if you go to electric- you still need those track parts. Get all the rolling parts, bag and tag them. Taking it apart will get you some learnings to do your windows. Take pictures. Generator to power gen? if your dead set on power windows, you may as well go to 12 volt, but then you are building something like a streetrod. so.... regular generators work fine in 6 volt applications changing to 12volts? I would say just leave it 6 and just rewire what needs help. If the car runs well on 6 volt. Leave it. Cranking problems? Check battery connections and chance cables out.
The best I can do is- 1. I cannot drive my car around getting estimates- because I have no windows. 2. The resto shop doesn't know where to find the parts for inside my doors ( regulators ect.) 3. They suggested I do the searching/research- because for them to do it, would cost $90 something an hour. 4. So my only choices are find the correct parts and a place to order them from or A. replace with new B. Find some shop that can Modify and/upgrade to 12 volt. in order to change to power windows,which I might as well do "If " I have to go that route ( but this is a last choice)--or C. Find the correct window parts. Simple as that- The shop suggested I buy the complete doors. 5.And because of past experiences I'm looking for someone "that" actually has done it and know exactly the website or company I should contact. Is why I ask the question using the phrase "someone who has actually done it.. **I have tried several sites- most including the Pontiac clubs, and several well known other sites like "Chevys of the 40s- Filling Station -Vintage GM Part. The books I have all cover my car- Chilton and Motors/ Fisher Body Service and Construction and I just ordered a GM Interchange Parts- covering Chevrolet- Buick -Olds and Pontiac. I figured "If I can't find the "correct parts" for my car--- Then try you guys- like a friend told me- Hot Rodders are great at Modifying their cars and should be able to tell me exactly who to check out and what parts to buy--- "If I have to modify" So I figure before looking for doors to buy check this post 1st.
Agreed on just replacing the stock regulators - They work great when cleaned and lubed. I would replace the felt strips and gl*** channels while you're in there as well - it's all available from the CR Laurence website under the automotive products link and makes everything work like new. I'm in the same stage of rebuild right now on my 39 Chev (4 door too!) and you can tackle this project as well. The original gl*** was 1/4" plate, apparently newer stuff is slightly thinner so you'll have to use a thicker setting tape (available from gl*** shops) to get your new gl*** in properly. Have fun - and don't throw out any original removed parts until you're finished the job - those tiny clips and such have a purpose and make life easier upon ***embly. I've had to buy other cars to get the parts I needed, but worth it in the end. A great tip I was given was to only do 2 doors at a time, so I have a reference when it's time to put all the parts back together
The stock regulators have a really nice action, I would suggest stick with the manual option and look to find spare parts to refit. What parts are missing from each door? As for the electrics- I converted my '51 to 12V properly after the previous owners tried to, badly. I would suggest that if everything works (particularly the dash gauges and generator system) to leave it 6V unless it realistically calls for it unless you are willing to undertake a modest amount of work to convert. You need to put a DC-DC voltage dropper (black box with regulator or just a plain dropper resistor) for the gauges, the radio will need a high current dropper resistor, the ammeter won't tolerate a modern generator's maximum charge current without a shunt, then all the bulbs need to be swapped along with the starter solenoid. Cabin fan motors will run on 12V but are often a bit tired to run for too long before the bearings begin to cry out; it all can be done but only if you are fully understanding of the commitment to it. It works, and I will say that I like the convenience of having all 12V equipment but that's only because someone did a very half-***ed go at it before I got it, all of which I ended up having to undo, repair and/or replace. Phil
--That's how this all started- I I knew I needed new window channels and belt strips- and figured I should have new gl*** also since 2 were cracked and the other were showing chips and separation. The shop I had it at said they could do it- So stupid me trusted them... They not only couldn't do it or put them back in, but tossed a lot of nuts and bolts in boxes with no labels- long story short- we ended up in court -I won- most of my money back- but was left with a car in pieces - a chunk cut out of the back and some parts lost and some broken. The pro- restorers told me I was missing window parts- The plan was to give them 2 doors/windows and channels and have them install everything- put the doors on and take the 2 back doors-- That's how I found out parts were missing.
Thank you for clarifying the situation. If you look through previous threads, there is one by Canuck called window regulators and bearclaw latches or something to that affect. Anyhow, he used manual window regulators from a '90 Jeep Cherokee. These have a cable/ rack and pinion setup like a lot of the aftermarket power window conversions. 1940's era GM window cranks have the same spline shaft but there is a bit of a problem with the spring clip retainer that I haven't been able to overcome. Canuck said that it was easy, but when I sent him a PM, he couldn't remember what it was. Anyhow, you don't have to do a 12 volt conversion. Here are pictures of it done on my T coupe. It was easy.
Some pics of your door and what you have would be helpful. Where are you located? Might be some members close by that would be willing to stop by to give you some on sight input. French Lake is your friend for parts. IMHO having done a few window conversions and 12v changes I would stay with the 6 volt set up rather than complicate your entire situation with yet more issues. Many stockers run a 8 volt battery to boost the system for better lighting etc. fwiw.
There’s got to be a blow up build out diagram of the window ***embly in the fisher body book. What exactly are you missing? If you want power windows, That choice comes with whole a can of worms. each worm needs attention and choices. One of those worms in that can will be re wiring the whole car, which of course is another whole can of worms. Buying doors and letting the shop pirate the widow parts is absolutely the easiest quickest fastest way for the good of the shop. Not necessarily for you though. Find out exactly what you’re missing. You gonna do the legwork or you gonna pay someone else. Buying the doors scenario eliminated some leg work.
No, I don't really want power windows- but that seemed like a "Last and easiest option". I would rather stick with my manual windows. And the leg work no problem ,@ 90 plus and hour for research, is an option-but a very expensive option...My problem should actually be a simple one... I was told and again- "I am mechanically inclined- but not an auto mechanic" so I can do the actual work - just need to find the correct place to buy the parts--I was told "I need new rollers and a regulator for 1 of my front doors.However here in lies my problem--- When I contact places like Filling Station and Chevys of the 40s ect.. They all basically say the same thing-- 'our parts are made for **x kind of car-- they "MAY" work on your with a little modifying-- but like all products once you modify the guarantee is void and the part becomes non-returnable. So I was/am looking people who have actually repaired or last option " modified with new or upgrade parts". with cars from the forties or a little earlier. I wish I could take sales peoples word- but a well known rubber place sent me " the wrong rubber for my front and rear rubber/ I still have a boxed wiring harness from RF and it's no good to me and I can't return it because it's been cut.. It was suppose to be for a 6v. instead it's for a 12v. and 3 mechanics say-- 'don't use it, the wires are too thin- and may get hot and cause fire"
First, spend a couple of your free hours looking over the parts and using your common sense to get an idea about how things might fit together. You can probably determine which parts fit where by the bolt patterns and rust or paint shadows on the parts. Then you can probably find out which parts are missing. It's not likely that you are missing the exact same part from each of the four doors, so you will hopefully have at least one widget left and know you need the other three. Then, do as Moriarity said and call French Lake Auto and see if they have the used parts. You probably won't find a Walmart of car parts where you can order new stuff off the shelf. Maybe you could for a Ford, but not with a Ponty, what ever that is. Next, post your location as maybe there's is a HAMBer nearby who would be willing to help with re***embly. Last, don't go changing a million other things (power windows and a 12 volt system) just to fix an unrelated problem. If you can't figure out how to install some windows that came out of these exact doors, there's no way you could successfully install a one-size-fits-most power window kit.
Here's a little rundown on converting to 12 volt. You would need to replace the generator, voltage regulator, coil, all bulbs, and battery for sure. You would need to put voltage reducers (not always reliable) on the electric gauges such as fuel, and maybe the water and oil. Amp gauges can be left alone, they don't care about the volts, just the amps. Some 6 volt starters work just fine on 12, but you will need to replace the starter solenoid. Last are radios and heater motors. Some work with reducers, and some don't. Any original wires that are good shape will work just fine with 12 volts. Buts it's highly unlikely any are good shape after these many decades. If you plan on using a generator you are going to need to change the wiring system and reroute. You are on your own there, I can't advise on that.
All the brain work and engineering for manual windows was done for you 73 years ago. Call French Lake and get the parts that will simply (in every sense of the word) bolt in. If they had some good original gl***, you wouldn't even have to deal with modern, thinner gl***. KISS. Don't over-think, over-do and over-spend on this. It's an easy fix.
The window mechanisms are fairly straightforward, being common GM stuff. Door cards off (pop the C clips off the latch and window handles, undo screws holding armrest on, unscrew lock pin, remove screws holding window frame, that pulls up, out and up again, then pop the clips off for the door). Vent windows unscrew and wiggle a bit to pull out once you wind the main gl*** down. Wind the main gl*** up and there's a couple access holes in the doors to get a tool through to undo the gl*** channel, the main gl*** pulls out, sideways into the space vacated by the vent window and then has enough movement to remove from the door. Front window mechanism is bolted in with several bolts and pulls out from the lower access hole. Rear the slider channel unbolts, then the rest of the regulator undoes and comes out through the lower access hole. Refit being reverse of removal. Mechanisms in their entirety are available for each door. Do your gl***es have the gl*** channel, rubber strip still attached? Phil
If you can, take photos of the doors, straight on with the door panel removed for ref. You can usually see where the regulators bolt into. You can have a yard take a photo of the doors on the parts car to confirm the structure is the same. check this posting out. YOU need to make sure they match. This is just the rears. You can ask if they got the fronts too. Then try to get a deal for all of them. Also see that this user is including the channels. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-1942-...-/324081419111?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292 I would say also maybe see if there is anyone on here parting one out.
Looks to me like you could rebuild them. The bits and pieces look somewhat familiar across gm lines of that era https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Window-Regu...indow-Sedan-25-27-Right-4114326-/133115899363
I did exactly that yesterday- examining the inside of the doors the best I can--- and it seems that my main problem is not the regulators themselves- but the rollers- which are riveted on- and I found that solution on YouTube. However the guy in the video had metal replacement rollers and all I can find are the neoprene/plastic ones- which I may end up using. But would rather have the metal ones. I started looking at the problem from a locksmith point of view-instead of from the mechanics- He said I needed new rollers and other parts and suggested I buy junk doors and scavenge the partS, or do the researching myself- because it would be less than paying for shop time... So without looking that's what I started doing without actually examining the doors. So now I'm just looking for metal rollers As far as bolt patterns- I can't use those because I have painted over those areas before knowing the bolts or screws maybe missing or unlabeled.( that's why I have asked just about photos mainly)and it seems as thought the 2 areas I'm concerned about right now may have been sheet metal screws- but that seems kind of odd to me.
So you may just be looking for the rollers?? check this out. https://www.chevsofthe40s.com/detai...w_Regulator_Roller_And_Rivet_For_Slot_In.html it looks like they have another part # for a larger sized rivet if needed there may be other vendors or try ebay also.
try Brown Auto Salvage, here is a you tube video their phone is (940) 393-2469 Sunset texas. if you are on FaceBook just type in Brown Auto Salvage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbcli...JuBn0JK6UFshZQ&v=6ou3tEWeKcI&feature=youtu.be If you were close I'd tell you to come and look at the regulators in 56 Chevy doors, I have four of them and I suspect they would work.
Thanks, I have checked them out before. But their rollers seem more for cable type windows. Mine are more of a solid metal wheel type roller. I'm sure that little groove would collect dirt or the edges would sooner or later start chipping. But thanks for the suggestion
I've seen this video before- but to far away to drive for parts. Great video. I'm sorry guys but I'm in Wisconsin and I used to go to Vans in Waupun years ago- they had 4 pontiacs with the same body- but they no loner exist and the people that took them over are strictly Mopar.- great place for you Mopar Fans.
Thanks for all your help guys- Once I find the "metal rollers" which should be no problem or neoprene as a last resort" Now all I'll have to find is a video on how all this goes back together without breaking the gl*** or try and figure out what needs to go in first . That shop also took out the vent windows and their regulators. Thanks again
Okay thanks, I just didn't want to go thru this #@!!* again down the road.. I saw on YouTube a guy was fixing rollers that had busted into pieces... and you and I both know- for some reason things got better but don't last as long...
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