"Uphill" Torque Tubes in Z'ed Hot Rods.

With my Model A build, I plan on running a '39 Ford 3-speed behind an early Chevy V8 ('57 283) with a Banjo rear axle and plan to Z the rear 7 inches or so to get the frame low. My dilemma is I want to keep my build as period correct as possible, parts-wise, and that means keeping the closed driveshaft. I had seen in other build threads that if the torque tube runs "uphill" from the transmission to the rear axle, then the rear axle oil will most likely seep down the torque tube. I was trying to brainstorm up a way to block off the rear axle from the torque tube without affecting the inner driveshaft but wanted to get some input from you guys first.

Is there a way to prevent the rear axle fluid from leaving the rear axle housing?

I also noticed that Vern Tardel offers an torque tube baffle that prevents the rear axle fluid from seeping down the tube.. Any input on this as well?

I was also informed that there is a Model A roadster with a torque tube that runs uphill from the transmission to the rear axle. I don't know if the builder or owner is on here so here's a picture of the roadster. If anyone knows who he is, please let me know so I can PM him or contact him to find out more about his solution to this dilemma.




Thanks, guys.

 

If you are referring specifically to the car you posted the pictures of, the Torque Tube does not "run uphill", its at the same basic angle as any other old Ford.

 

I'd say it would probably be worth thinking about using an open drive shaft.
It looks such a great hot rod, seems a shame that this issue is causing you such grief.

 

Really.. Hm. All right. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now onto solving my dilemma. Any experience with that?

 

Ah. I really would love to keep a closed driveshaft. I'm not at the point of mounting the drivetrain yet so I still don't know whether the torque tube will run "uphill." I guess you could say this is preparing for the unknown. I've also thought about moving the drivetrain slightly higher to be more level with the rear axle as long as it doesn't detract from the build aesthetically. I already have an upsweep so that gives me a little more room.

I have gave it thought that if I can't run with a closed driveshaft then I'm not entirely opposed to a open driveshaft. Exploring my options, so to speak.

 

The issue is also even if it is level with braking, p***enger loads and down hill runs I am sure oil will still manage to find its way up the tube.
Be a shame to chew out a rear end knowing it could happen and especially after you have done all the build work to boot.

 

True. Seems like this is a decision that will have to be wait to be made until I'm at that fork in the road.

 

Isnt there a baffle that Tardel sells that stops oil from running down the tube??? Or just get a QC with a sealed bearing

I am sure you could add an oil seal to the torque tube down at the pinion.

 

I actually looked at some Quick Changes online.. Buying the cheapest Quick Change would be half of what I have invested in my build right now.

Tardel does sell that baffle but I haven't heard anyone's input on whether or not those work well enough.

 

I have a hunch you will end up going with an open drive-line in the end.

Pay particular attention to how you will maintain pinion angle and how you will center the axle under the car. There are good kits on the market to satisfy these needs. Or you can fab up your own rear suspension.

I have been through this challenge. We ended up going with an open drive-line. We decided to build our own suspension system. I wish we would have purchase a kit. It would have been cheaper. On the other hand, we went through a valuable learning process, and isn't that half the fun?!

 

Well, open drive housings just have a cap with an oil seal installed. You could make a similar thing to go over your drive shaft, slide into your torque tube, grub screw it in place with some sealant and your done..........see easy as that hahahaha.

 

Good point, that would work if you wanted to keep the tube.

 

Valuable learning process.. Or the easy way out.. Hmm. Decisions, decisions.

Haha. Only if. I'll just think hard about my dilemma.

I'm afraid if I decide to go with an open drive, then I won't want the '39 Ford anymore and decide to look for a late '50's T-10 instead for the 4th forward gear. It'll still be period correct as a bonus. I already have the stock 4-speed bellhousing on my 283 to boot.. And I'll have a spiffy Offy adapter to hang on the wall.

 

NO NO stick with the closed drive........
You will figure it out. Just go to a bearing joint and ask for an oil seal to fit over your drive shaft, then make an adapter to go into your torque tube. A few bucks and a lathe job is well worth the effort.....i think.

 

Stop, step back, and think about the big picture first, as I feel you are looking to much at the detail and kinda ignoring the obvious.

Imagine that you're just building a rolling ch***is, you have and engine/trans/rearend, you have your chosen wheel combination, suspension, and for the time being, lets completely ignore the ch***is.

Now if it was me, I'd bolt the driveline together (including torque tube), bolt on some rear tyres, and that would ultimately tell me roughly where the engine is located, no different to when you setup your front suspension, you need to get the fundamental angles and relationships correct, and the components will ultimately tell you where your mounts need to be. When it comes to the driveline format, if it was an open driveline system, you ideally want your crank centreline to be parallel with your 3rd member input, with an ideal maximum angle centreline varience between your crank centreline and tail shaft being 3-4 degree's etc etc etc.

What I'm getting at, is that fundamentally your driveline ideally needs to be mounted to compliment the appropriate mating parts, and really doesn't care where your ch***is is mounted in regards to the driveline. In laymans terms, if you want the body very low, and your ch***is low, you really shouldn't expect your engine to be mounted low, but rather, at a similar height (off the ground) as to what it would be if the ch***is was straight and not stepped.
This ultimately means that it will be sitting higher in the ch***is and engine bay (visually) than what you'd expect, that you end up with m***ive ****** tunnels and the like, but, that comes with the teritory. Have another look at that green roadster, and then compare the position of the key components, I think you'll find it's a fine balance, and the engine is sitting where it should be, with the body/ch***is dropped around it...

 

This is the kind of peer pressure I need.

That actually does make sense. I think this is what I needed to move forward.. I just wonder if I can get the motor to sit at a reasonable height. I don't want the motor to be sitting way higher than the body but I think I would be okay if the top of the carburetors were level with the edge of the cowl. I actually kind of dig it when the carb scoops kind of poke a little higher than the cowl. I'm just too much of a perfectionist.

I'm probably overthinking this. I need to just mock everything up and figure out where to go from there.. Kinda like your signature.

Thanks. I actually do already have the wheel/tire combo picked out, rear end, motor, adapter, torque tube.. I just need to find a transmission. I do have a spare '46 side-shifter that I can use to mock it up.

 

I z'd my frontend the frame height, 4" in front. Put the frontend together with motor & trans hung in place. Remove crossmember & bolt to banjo ***embly, find where body fits best, put axle in place in relation to that. Then build the offset piece that will fit the space. That radical channel in the picture looks awkward, could you really sit down inside and be comfortable? I can't believe back in the day with ****py roads & a need for practical transportation they would be in the weeds.
I build a dam in the tube that will just clear the coupling with a small drainback hole just in case. My tube is a couple degrees correct but when the tank is full & my fat *** is in there probably is the other way. 18" shorter tube I used no center bearing there is no vibrations or ill effects.

 

Just to be clear, the engine/trans/torquetube/axle doesn't care if the ch***is is 4" higher than 'normal', or 4" lower, all it cares about is that it's within a tolerable range, with relationship to it's mating parts.

Position your ch***is and body to suit, finding the best balance/comprimise you can.

Mock up you're parts, and you'll soon see what I mean.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

I won't be channeling my body that much. I'm only channeling it the width of the frame which is 4 inches. I have a 5 degree upsweep and plan to Z the back some while keeping everything above the scrub line.

Will do. Thanks, man.

 

I was hoping someone would respond to Vern Tardel's torque tube baffle that prevents the rear axle fluid from seeping down the tube... does it work? In my 33 the rear is higher than the trans and I have to keep adding to the rear and it leaks out the trans... the trans is always over full... a pain but hasn't caused any problems...

When building the 27 I kept the driveline level by raising the engine/trans mounting locations... bonus of the torque-tube is that it can be above the floor since it isn't a rotating ***embly...

 

I have the Tardel baffle in my AV8 ,I don't have a lot of miles on it yet,so far it works good.But you have to remember ,the baffle does not fit perfect.I'm using a 39 rearend,I had to grind out the tube a little to get it in.I don't know what year your tube is, they are not all the same size.There are other types of baffles on the market,most are more expensive than Tardels and a little more involved.If you do a search something should come up.I think there's a shop in Texas that offers one with a flange that goes between the torque tube and banjo.

 

Obviously a quick change set as mentioned earlier will help keep the drive shaft angle falling the preferred direction, but it will also get you an open drive shaft.

 

I have the same problem with my uphill torque tube. I did a search a couple months ago and there's a gut on here from texas that makes a housing that a seal fits in between the diff and touque tube. I was going to look into it over the winter. I had a PM from him but lost it when I deleted all my old PM's

 

There's a HAMBer in Texas that makes a seal for between the torque tube and the differential? Do you know his name or is that all you know is he's on here and he's from Texas? I'm actually really interested in learning more about this guy and what he has to offer. Hopefully he sees this thread, hops on, and introduces himself..

 

Not sure about the Texas part. I lost his name by accident. I found it looking through old posts when I searched "banjo oil leak".

 

This might be of some use to you. They built a collar to stop the oil from flooding the transmission. Believe they're selling them as well:

http://www.seabrighthotrods.com/?p=522

 

hey bubba...I've got a '39 ****** and '40 ford rear complete with brakes and torque tube that I'm selling. Larry

 

I'll get on that later. Thanks.

That actually helped out. I'll do some researching on that later.

Hm. Sending you a PM..