Ha Ha Ha, well, AV8, I'm deffinately not a self-proclaimed race car engine expert or anything, and my only beef against small block Chevys is that EVERYONE runs one! I don't need to be told just how stout a SBC is, or how high it will rev, or how cheap it is to build...I've done several and I KNOW what they are capable of. Reading beyond the second paragraph of my original reply, you'll see that I was discussing ORIGINALITY vs "copying" in terms of hot rod building. Why some guys like to break the mold while others feel more comfortable following accepted formulas. I used alot of metophoric language, drawing parrallels with the art world, but I was essentially trying to say that some "artists" (car builders) prefer to do their own thing while others see something they like and set out to capture their own interpretation of it. Neither way is "wrong"...it's a personal preference thing! My rext rod will be powered by a small block CHRYSLER...it'll cost a few pennies more to build than a small Chevy, but it'll rev just as high and pull just as hard as the typical 350 out there will. There are all sorts of "modern" engines available to the current builder, and aftermarket technology makes even some of the former oddballs viable performance candidates. No reason NOT to take advantage of this fact when looking for a motor to power up your new coupe or roadster! As for the 50s, nobody in the first half of that decade ran a small block Chevy, and I have to believe that only the rich boys and top end cars had them until the late 50s when they started showing up in junkyards and on the used parts market with regular frequency. Sure that engine revoloutionized hot rodding, but that wasn't the point here. The point was being ORIGINAL. (Not fast, or period correct, or true to what Joe Average is doing). My quip was that it's pretty hard to be original with a small block Chevy. So DESPITE THEIR OBVIOUS ADVANTAGES, I elect to never use another in any of my cars! I can't count how many people (including one of my neighbors!) have offered to GIVE me a 350 Chevy to put into my car and I just can't do it! I'll work harder and spend more money to do it MY way, but that's just me! In the end, I know I wouldn't be happy with "just another small block powered heap", so I have to go my own way to build the car that I want! If you just want a fast car on the cheap, then a small Chevy is a tough act to follow...but if you want to be original and do something a little different, then looking elsewhere is the way to go! Me? I know how to go fast when that's the goal, but for my 49, speed was never a priority. Down the road, it'll get a bigger motor, but for now, cruising around in something different and having fun building and driving it is the primary objective. The next car (a gl*** bodied coupe!) will be plenty fast enough to send a whole slew of Chevy powered heroes home crying...but half of those Bozos will think they just got spanked by a mouse motor anyway, so who knows? (Many dingbats can't tell a 318 Mopar from a 350 Chevy for some silly reason!!! ) I ain't trashing anyones preferences or choices, just explaining mine!
God ,........you sound like me, LOL if i see another 49-51 merc with Desoto grill teath and packard tailights i'll scream!!!!!! all the custom cars guys build to look differant all look the same. This is why I love Ed Roth! this is why I started building the Roswell Rod! FRITZ
[ QUOTE ] I think there are too damn many BLACK "traditional" hot rods out there... I'd LOVE to see a RED one... As for the street rod set... that's a different story. Mark my words... the "RAT RODS" that get painted something other than black are the ones people will be "oooing" and "ahhhing" over in the next few years... That and a slow refinement of the details will set the leaders apart from the followers... Jimmy Shine look out... the only place for the young builders of today to go is to make these cars "nice"... Ratty Rods will be p***e in five years. Stance and tire selections will be a blur... everyone will have the same ****... so to "stand out" guys will begin to look towards things like motor mounts, brake systems, the routing of wires/cables/exhaust... creative use of color. texture, chrome etc. [/ QUOTE ] You hit it right on the head Sam. I agree 100%
I don't know Dave, while on the one hand I really like to do things that are outside the box, I also like to see things done nicely that fit the parameters of the box. It doesn't matter that much whether the car being viewed demonstrates "originality" as it does whether or not the construction of the vehicle shows some modi*** of thought and pride in what was built. While I think we all tend to stop and drool a little on the cars that are diferent and that show "original" thinking, I still believe that a nicely constructed "everyman's" car is something that we all can enjoy. Perhaps, it is because we all (at least us geezers) have many fond memories of cars from the past that we wished we could own. So, we build cars that fulfill those dreams. And, that ain't bad as I see it! Just my 2 pesos worth of thought on this subject.
I put cars together for my very own personal enjoyment. If I cloned someone else's idea of cool, I'd get no enjoyment from doing that. Maybe that's why I generally pick the orphan and ugly-duckling cars. I really consider those cars a challenge and derive huge enjoyment from putting one together and hearing positive reactions from other rodders as well as getting the "tingle" when I see it. You know what the tingle is, doncha? That's the feeling you get when you come around the corner to see your car sitting there. If it gives you a tingle of excited approval to see it, you've satisfied your creative needs. It looks cool to you. That feeling is a little tougher to achieve with a 41 Pontiac that it is with a 33 ford 3 window but that's the challenge. I love it! That said, I'd still love to build a 33 ford 3 window.
I agree that the Milner Coupe is an ICON, there are certain design elements that bug me, including that too short grill. Doesn't make it any less historically significant. Me and a buddy were discussing something similar this weekend in regards to my car and flames. I want flames on my '36. I have for a long time. My final scheme turned out to be flat black with cream flames striped in apple green. I've posted my photoshop pic of it before. I think it looks like my personal take on a traditional theme. My buddy thinks... A) Flames are EVERYWHERE... it's too late. 5 years ago it would have been killer but now it's too late. B) EVERYONE now does 1 color flames. My bodywork won't be done for awhile, so its just going to be flat black for now. But I still want to do it. My design I develped makes it MY car. That's what's important to me. I think my color selection is somewhat unique too. And the apple green is a nod to the car's history and my Dad. But if he had his way, it would look just like it did in '64. My Dad was a trendsetting RESTORODDER back in the '60s. BTW, it's running a Ford in a Ford.
I agree that "I want to be different, just like everyone else" DON'T TRY TO TURN THIS TO A GL*** VS. STEEL ISSUE. I've always wanted a 40-41 willy's coupe. now anyone can buy one new, I wouldn't be happy with one now! thats just me. I still like them I just don't want one! My 48 ford 3 window coupe was designed by me, for me, and picked up its proportions from the Willy's and they don't make them out of Gl*** (yet) so I'm happy. My 52 Plymouth Wagon started with thoughts of cloning George Cerney's 50 plymouth wagon, I have all the right pieces, grill, bumpers, headlights, taillights ect. I think its the coolest wagon ever built and I have the original April 1956 Car Craft (I've worn out two copies since 56) When I started I realized that I could improve and change the original (in my mind and thats all that counts, right?) So I had to go for it. I think how I'd feel with a clone and have the original show up. yeach! I've built mine out of respect to the original, with very little similarities
Hey I thought you were in Florida. Unless of course you're a different Dave Mann. In which case disreguard that last statement. I've always said that the main reason that you should build your own is that the ride will be a reflection of you. If you didn't build it it isn't yours. Period. I guess if you have no personality then you will have to build a clone. Otherwise, build it to your own likeing, and if no one else likes it who cares. It aint about fame its all about being yourself. well, that's my two cents anyway.
[ QUOTE ] I guess if you have no personality then you will have to build a clone. [/ QUOTE ] damn, I woulda loved to have a clone of the Frank Mack T or the Two Lane Blacktop car or a couple dozen others.. I guess I'll just stick with what I know, piecing together stuff as the parts appear. Paul
I don't like clones especially if the original is out there. I also don't understand the need to have a car that has "lakes history" or "drag history." I think those cars are neat but I don't think I'd personally like to have one. I look at Gooch's car and am really jealous of it not because of it's incredible history, but because it's a cool body in great shape. I think I'd feel a little dissapointed on some level if I had a cool body like that and found out it had some import in the Racing past. I would be happy that I found it but then again I'd be conflicted over the need to "restore" it to it's past glory. That's the only right thing to do but it's kinda limiting to the creative aspects of building a hot rod. I know Tom Branch and can definately understand why he sold the Eddie Die roadster to Don Orosco. I mean he didn't have the means to restore it and he knew Don would do it right. For me (and I'm in no way saying it should be this way for everyone), building a hot rod is about the creative processes you use to bring an idea to the road. I like to challenge myself and enjoy the satisfaction of succeeding in overcoming those challenges. It makes the trip down a lonely country road (yes there are a few here in Ca. still) all that more sweet. If you can find a challenge in building a clone, go for it. If you have an old race car and see restoring it to it's past gloriy as a challenge, go for it. It's really all *****in'. But it's an individual thing thank God, and we all can do what we want. Don't listen when people say "don't do this" or "you have to do that" unless that person is me.
I just build what I can afford. It's a Pontiac, which makes it differnt then most. But in the end, as long as it runs and drives, I don't care what people think about it. I am building the car for me, not anybody else. But unfortunatly, what gets done to it is mostly decided by my checkbook. But I'm okay with that.
this was my try at something differnt the guy i was doing it for gave me some parameters, and i had to figure a way to do it with cast-off parts, basically everything on the truck was built with throw away stuff...cheap parts ...expensive labor bill.... it took some imagination, but still everything on there has been done a hundred times before, maybe not exactly the way i did it, but still the basic ideas im sure have been used before.....there are no new ideas in traditional rodding!!! i wish someone else would get imagination and buy this thing too
my imagination is jest fine, I think of things daily and in my mind they look kick *** but........I'm limited by my ability. I can see it vividly in my minds eye but my mind isn't sure what to do with my hands.
When it comes to hot rods, everyone has their own reasons for doing what they do. I think a beginners first rod should follow the "tried and true". The odds are better it'll get done AND actually work. Once a new builder completes his or her first car, the second one will have the benefit of the builder's experience and allow for more self-expression. Many of you know I write a fairly popular hot rodding magazine with primary focus on domestic musclecars. When young readers write in and ask what their first car should be, I tell them a Camaro or Mustang. These cars (like red '32 Fords with 350/350 combos) don't do anything for me. I've never owned a Camaro, and the only Mustang I've ever owned was given to me and subsequently traded off. I need to do something more interesting. However, for a beginner, the tried and true offers a good sample of the hobby with less chance of failure on any level. If the young builder learns his chops on a relatively-mainstream ride, odds are it'll get done and work, and also that it'll be able to be sold. I say let the new enthusiasts learn on what everyone knows will work, then encourage them to challenge themselves with something much more unique and personal once they've got skills. Scotch!~
I agree with you Scotch. Every beginner should start with something easy. Even if it involves bolt on stuff. Knowledge experience and most importantly confidence have to be earned. Most people just cant throw a masterpiece together out of the womb. That's why I usually don't get too upset about the riceburner crowd. These guys and gals will soon be over to the dark side. All of us have had our tatses in cars change over the years.
I'm in the process of building a car that has been in my head for about 10 years now. For the whole 10 years I've been watching for someone to build something simular enough so that I wouldn't have to build it. I'm about six months into the build and so far I think this car will be pretty unique and the responce that I'm getting, from a few folks that have seen it, has been very positive. Wish me luck on getting it finished before someone else builds something simular. There are a lot of copy-cat builders out there and I have about a five year completion date to finish this car mainly due to the lack of finances. Years ago I helped a buddy of mine design and build a chopped top 47 Ford business coupe that is still pretty unique today and to this day he still hasn't finished that car. I just thought I'd share this with you guys thanks for listening. Walt
I'm probably wrong but I think that the point was not that you shouldn't do something that someone has done. But not to build a clone of someone elses work. Obviously there are only so many ways to drill an axle or channel one, or chop a top or not. But face it even belly ****ons are different. Build your own stuff and stop trying to copy someone elses. There are enough Milner Coupes or Two Lane Blacktop '55s. Most of the methods we use are tried and true. But for instance as much as I like Bullnosed Coupes, I wouldn't even dream of building a Copy of Ryan's Ride. If I built one even if it was black and had Cheater Slicks it would be different in some fashion. Nuthin' wrong with Ryan's Ride, its as sweet as it comes, it just aint mine. Same with the other cars that we consider "Famous".It wasn't cool that made the Milner coupe famous, it was Promotion (translated$$$). The Kookie T was the same and so on and so on. I don't think I ever look at a car, as rightious as it may be, that I don't see something that I would do different if it were mine. It should be that way for any of us. That's what makes us who we are.
I agree that u should use your imagination, use the same parts, but use em a little different, or build the same kind of car, but use a little different parts... But some cars u just cant get enough of, a well done 32 roadster done in the right way (whatever that is) is allways gonna get my attention, its like blonds, even tough i live in Sweden, i never can get enough of em...
Roadsters, are you color blind? or did I miss something? what color was the American Graffiti coupe? I agree with your point though...
[ QUOTE ] Ratty Rods will be p***e in five years. Stance and tire selections will be a blur... everyone will have the same ****... so to "stand out" guys will begin to look towards things like motor mounts, brake systems, the routing of wires/cables/exhaust... creative use of color. texture, chrome etc. Sam. [/ QUOTE ] I think Sam is so right with this statement. I can't wait to see his prediction come true. Imagine all these black/red/white walled "traditional" rods showing up in different colors with top notch workmanship and attention to detail. Rogue's current AMBR project RPU comes to mind. It will be a look at our future I believe. Having said that, if a clone turns your crank - have at it. Anyone here ever enjoyed restoring a piece of antique furniture, gas pump, neon clock, Cushman scooter, etc...? Sometimes restoring is fun. Simply putting it back as it was. Preserving a piece of our history as it was. For the members of the Milner Coupe Clone Club (MCCC) who can't have the original, replicating the car that means so much to them is a blast/obsession/sickness.... Whatever it is for them, it drives them to build a hot rod. That is all that really matters. It may not be groundbreaking, trendsetting, original, or even different from 100 others just like it but it made the owner smile. For me, I'll continue to bust my *** in an attempt to make my 283 SBC-powered RPU as unique as possible. Hopefully when Sam's prediction comes true I'll be able to afford a killer "fluff up" of the original build. JH
OK lets see if I understand your point. I'm supposed to build a car that I really don't care for in a style that I don't prefer and paint it a color that doesn't appeal to me because you've seen too many black or red 32 Fords. Is that your premise? "Sorry Charlie" I build my cars for me to express my ideas of a good looking hot rod and only my ideas. You and many others will NOT agree. That's fine. That is what I love about the hobby. There was a time in the 70's where everyone *****ed about only the red 32-34 Fords getting all the "ink". The goal was to get your car in a magazine. A worthy goal but that's not why I build a hot rod. Be true to yourself. If you like red 32 highboy roadsters...build one. It would be pretty stupid for me to build my 32 P/u in a Jimmy Shine style (even though I love the truck) if I couldn't get in and out of it. So it won't be chopped, channeled or sectioned. It will be green though. I won't be embarr***ed that it has a 305/350 Chevy motor either. Being different doesn't always mean it will turn out well. My personal opinion of the "Tubester" 34 P/U is that they butchered a beautiful 34 P/U. My opinion only. It's different and the craftsmanship is impecable but, it's ugly. I refuse to deny my love for the old Ford designs that I fell in love with just because a whole lot of other people like them too. Being different just to be different isn't my goal. Building something that I like is my goal. If someone else likes it...that's cool. If they don't...walk on by. All that being said...I get tired of the cookie cutter cars too. so I understand what you are saying. I might have suggested that a builder might explore new and different ideas that they may come to love and enjoy. Stretch your horizons etc.
[ QUOTE ] Roadsters, are you color blind? or did I miss something? what color was the American Graffiti coupe? I agree with your point though... [/ QUOTE ] according to Bob Falfa it was a cross between piss yellow and puke green, I agree. I hate yellow cars.
The Jalopy Journal
