I forwarded this to the Fire Truck Restorers (SPAAMFA) and they have put it up on their site too. I'm a retired Fire Shop guy and these things are good engines and a bit complicated BUT haven't been produced since about 1964. The Fire guys are always looking for old Seagrave, American la France and other unusual engines. I have a restored 1091 Hall-Scott on a roll around stand I take to shows with the fire folks. Normbc9 Normbc9
Greetings, I have acquired a 1944 (I'm told) Seagrave pumper with a flathead V12. While the truck has been severely cannibalized, the engine and related components are mercifully and thankfully unmolested. I intend to use this engine, as well as the fenders and grille, in a project that I've started. The engine # (vertical on rear of block) is 700291. I would greatly appreciate any information that you can provide as to displacement, parts sources, and a shop manual. Thanks in advance. Regards, Phil Rose
Phil, I have one of these (468ci) in a '48 Pumper. They're a pretty nice engine, and not quite too big to be used in something else. I got mine running very well. The ignition system looks complicated, but if you look at each distributor as two separate 6 cylinder distributors (each with it's own set of points, condenser, and coil), they start to make sense. Off the top of my head, I believe the points and condenser are late 40's Chevrolet. (The distributors are Delco.) Unfortunately, the truck and all my other stuff is in Minnesota while I am in Florida for the next 6 months. If you still need anything next spring, feel free to contact me. Tubman Edit : I also did the carburetors about 10 years ago. I think they were Ball and Ball or Carters (I have CRS syndrome). Kits were available and I don't remember having any problems with them.
Ab Jenkins drove many cars at Bonneville from a 1921 Studebaker to a 1956 Pontiac. He drove the Pierce Arrow record setter I mentioned above, then he came back with a supercharged Duesenberg and set a new record. The following year he came back with the same Duesenberg with a Curtis Conqueror airplane engine and raised the record again. I find it interesting that the Pierce V12 set records, even though it was not considered a speed car. And that it took a Duesenberg to beat it, and a supercharged one at that. Furthermore, I take it the Duesenberg was at the limit of its development or they would not have needed an airplane engine to beat it. (The Pierce came back with the same car, suitably modified, 3 years in a row and set new records every year)
I had a chance to see a 1937 Pierce Arrow v12 coupe a couple weeks ago. Awesome car! The original P.A. aluminum heads had been scrapped due to corrosion, and Seagrave dual plug iron heads were in place. Regarding the Duesenberg engine that Jenkins used to take Pierce Arrows record, it was not maxed out , it was nearly stock. Better bearings, compression bumped to 7.5:1, dual carbs, rams horn intake manifold , and some super-tuning by Augie Duesenberg was all it took to go 153 for an hour and 135 for 24 hours. The Curtiss Conqueror v12 aircraft engine that replaced it was a supercharged , 48 valve, 1570 cube monster that no passenger car engine of the era could come close to. Early 20th century automotive history is so intriguing!
I wonder why they changed the engine if they could have gotten more out of the Duesy straight eight? It seems to have been a thing, to take the record then come back and beat it. The Pierce was hopped up a little more each year, starting with a stock V12 roadster body, chassis and engine, and ending with the same chassis with a streamlined body and 4 carbs on the engine. They could have squeezed more out of it but by that time the Pierce company had nothing more to prove and wisely quit while they were ahead. Duesenberg took the record then came back the next year but why did they change the engine if the stock engine wasn't maxed out?
They could have added more cam, done more work on the head, added another blower, and then test to see if it hung together. But the changes would involve a lot of time consuming and expensive r&d. Gains with the Duesy engine would have been small compared to what they could achieve with a very refined and proven aircraft engine almost 4 times it's displacement. That weighed only 100 pounds more. What would get better publicity for their sponsors: up there own record by a couple mph, or smash the record by 20 - 30 mph? And remember, by that time, Duesenberg was all but defunct as a car company. Jenkins and A. Duesenberg were not working for Duesenberg Motors Inc. They did this for sponsorships by oil companies and tire companies and such.
Have access to a 51? Seagrave pumper truck with the v12 guy is going to send it to scrap located Lethbridge Alberta Canada not a project I can tackle right now but I don’t want to see it go to scrap
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