It looks like ive bought a V8 60, need a gearbox though. I have an option for one thats column change and torque tube, what are my options for floor shift and propshaft? I found a thread about making a floor shift for a column change box but can i convert it to use a propshaft? Are there other gearbox options? I know nothing about these engines or american car parts in general so ive no idea what to look for. Its going in a small english ford
there are 2 different bellhousing sizes. 60s used in trucks had the same size as the big flatheads. If you have the larger one 47-53 P/U trucks will have the parts to convert to open drive. If yours is the smaller car size I don't have a clue if it can be readly made into open drive. I'll bet a good machinest/fabricator could do it though.
Im prety sure it will be the smaller car size. Are there open drive gearboxes or are they all torque tube?
Ok, thanks. I guess ill buy the box aswell then and see what i can sort out. Can torque tubes be shortened?
Don't know if you need it but I have a couple V8-60 top load trannies. These are the 1937-39 variety with the smaller dimensions than the regular 85hp gearboxes. Smaller gears inside etc. As stated above, all the 60hp transmissions were setup for closed drive (torque tube) driveshafts. I dont know of any conversion kits ever made for open drive on the top load versions. These would surely work well for a small car and low hp application. They need rebuilt (which is what I do) but I can move them up to the front for rebuilding if need be. Otherwise, they will get done when work is slow..... Mac VP www.flatheadv8.com
I believe you can simply clearance the bellhousing on a V8 trans to clear the 60 starter & run any trans you want behind a 60...
I have a V8 ****** behind my 60. I didn't build it, but looks as they just cut a notch to clear the starter.
A column shift 60 box here in USA would be a normal '40 box with the minor bellhousing casting changes for 60 starter drive. Yours might be something else from those slightly smaller Fords that became the Pilot later...don't know much about them, but in USA any 60 sideshift has big gears. 60 cars got the miniature trans, commercials and taxis got the big car trans with bellhousing different. I think there will also be bellhousings for the big truck trans. Any regular V8 trans can be use by cutting a hole for the starter drive.
Ok, thanks folks. If the box is cheap ill get it anyway, if not ill leave it and look into swapping a different trans on. When i have the engine (a few days hopefully) ill get some pics up as these things are all new to me. It may even turn out to be a 21 stud but i hope not. Ive seen a pic but he just said it was a pilot motor. There normaly 21 stud but it looks like a v8 60. I read a bit and aparantly early pilots were v8 60 (european version but i think thats just bearing details?) Anyhow, i guess ill find out when i get it home. Thanks for the offer on the box's, have you shipped to england before? Just wondered what kind of costs are involved. Thanks.
Model 62 Ford was the prewar 60-only car...it picked up the bigger engine during WWII and then got produced after the war with 1937 type 221 as the Pilot.
Thanks, but im not quite sure what that means Are you saying no european v8 pilots had v8 60's? Im really not sure what ive bought but it was cheap. The heads have the central water way and the placement of the plugs in relation to the head bolts look v8 60 to me. I do know nothing about these though. Shall i go dig out the pic?
Model 62 was prewar, had 60. Pilot was same basic ch***is made postwar, I think 85 only. There were also wartime 221 powered 62 based staff cars and station wagons.
this is what ive bought. As i say, i know nothing about these Just block/sump and all internals but with an option to buy the other bits. I cant make out the studs and it was an impulse buy so no time to ask questions. Looking at the 2 studs by the spark plug it looks like a 60 to me. Certainly doesnt look like any pics of 21 or 24 stud engines ive seen.
Ok So, i guess that changes my gearbox options? Makes it easier to get/fit a stick shift open drive box then? Unfortunately will be bigger and heavier so probably wont fit the car i bought it for. I guess it will be a coffee table for a while till i find a suitable car.
Just looked for some more pics, your right. Are these different to normal 21 stud flatheads then? The head stud locations look different. I think i need to go and read up on my flatheads
pic is deceptive--you are seeing farther down the head than you think, 21 lower row is visible. This is basically a 1937 in USA, produced until 1950's in GB. Rods and bearings are likely to be locked type, otherwise pretty much same as US engines inside. Outside, different distributor (Lucas) and carb, I think a Solex 2.
60s had 2 very obivous differances 1= water pumps screwed in ,not bolted on. And 2 the exhaust manifolds were square in cross section. Another diff was some had smooth steel outside of block welded on. I do think I am in error on 60s having two different bolt circles on the bellhousing [gasp! LOL} They did however had the starter drive clearance cutout.
The bellhousing differences were in the transmission part of the bell...the casting provided place for a tin cup to cover the starter drive, which was way inboard of the 85 location at the very edge of the bellhousing circle.
Ok. Would love to fit it anyway but i think it will be too big and heavy. Will probably sell it on, or just keep it for display in the living room.
The engine's not too big, the problem is that your firewall is too big! Incorrect diagnosis of a problem can really screw up a build...
more intresting stuff for 60 hp trans 1> there was a early usa version where the case is the same but the gear sets in side are different and not all parts are interchangeable i belive the first 147,000 trans were like this. you can find a ford service bullitian on this topic 2> there was also a commercial car 1st gear that was much lower and could be ordered in reg p*** cars if you lived in the mountian regions. they were std equip on the 60hp taxi package 3. these trans were also used for some power transmission applications so you can find them on some old machine tools like large drill presses and some other old oddball stuff.
I think the #1 was an 85 type trans but with straight cut reverse/first, dropped in most uses in 1935 #2 was the introduction of the 29 tooth ge****t, used om many commercials until '48...the cluster gear carried a 60 part number. Another oddity--I actually saw one of these in a French junkyard long ago: The first few hundred 60's in late 1935--36 had FOUR mains and REVERSED port order...two siamese exhausts per side, top pattern of intake ports totally different! The block I saw was instantly recognizable as Ford, but with those disturbing differences...someone recently posted a bit of info on these things in the V8 times. The 60 was available only in England and in European areas served by the English factory '35-6, and had mutated to its normal form by the time it was sold in the US, starting in 1937. I think the odd early engine was only used in a few hundred cars, and is obscure even on its own side of the Atlantic. Restorer types used to be baffled by the fact that V8-60 serial numbers started at 6,000 plus rather than 1...the missing units were all in England or Europe.
It's actually a '37 type, most built with locked rod bearings...these were built through the war powering Bren carriers and trucks (and one early war tank), and up til at least 1952. Joblot brought over lots of parts from these in the '70's. Ford England also used these in the American type vehicles ***embled there into 1939 model year, when war ended production of normal stuff. Most had one of several Lucas distributors and a couple of different non-Ford carbs. I think all 24 stud engines in the various Imperial armies in WWII were Canadian, and England never actually manufactured 24's. Most English refer to these as Bren carrier engines, as that was by far the biggest use.
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