Projects Vail, Conkling & Shosie Bros. A/Gas Henry J found, rescue begun!

Gasser 57 · Dec 19, 2009

Smokin' cool build. It's chilling to think how close it came to being destroyed forever by the 4x4 butchers. Keep us updated with pics.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 19, 2009

thanks Royal, coming from you that means a lot!

Carguy365-24-7 · Dec 19, 2009

That is soo cool ! I'd love to see it make a trip to WIR just for "old time sake!"
PAUL

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 19, 2009

after a session with a wire brush and some Por-15, we decided that a better support system for the rear floor was needed so we came up with a simple grid made from 1" aluminum angle and 1" aluminum square tube. the angle was pie cut around the abbreviated remains of the rear wheelhouses, making things a lot tighter.

bobwop · Dec 19, 2009

looking good!

I am anxious to see it. plan to join the Midwest G***ers.

OoltewahSpeedShop · Dec 19, 2009

Very cool. gotta love Henry J's, especially one with all that history.

Kevin

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 19, 2009

i should stress here that while we are definitely taking cues from what we are finding, and paying tribute to these guys and to what they accomplished, we are not recreating it exactly as we found it. we are putting our own stamp in certain ways. we are beefing it up here and there. this rear structure is a good example.

moving to the main floor is a good example of this as well. as i mentioned before 1" angle was used before, including as the rocker structure! (the cosmetic portion of the rockers were simply .040 aluminum formed in a sheetmetal brake)

the old floor angle iron had been cut away when it was stuck on the 4x4 frame and thinwall seamed tube had crudely been welded between the rockers and the frame. we "bridged" this stuff to cut the body loose

after measuring carefully we cut the angle rocker away from the a & b pillars on one side and replaced it with .120" wall, 1" square tube. we moved on to the other side then dropped the old mess away. then we started a tubing grid and Alex came up with some sweet body mounts.

some square tube uprights were made to connect to the b pillar inner structure. more patching will be done here to tighten it up....

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 19, 2009

more pix of the grid....

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 19, 2009

bob, pm me and i will make arrangements for you to see it

lorodz · Dec 19, 2009

great progress

Von Hartmann · Dec 20, 2009

Guys it looks great! we need to talk the owner into chrysler power. That's all that car ever had in it. The last motor to be run in it was a 360 small block. It ran 11s with that motor.

If I could just get the "dibs" removed, there is a good complete 413 big block chrysler here in the junkyard waiting to be built and bored to a 426. My friends are mopar nuts, my chevy **** is outa place around them.

G***er 57 said: ↑

Smokin' cool build. It's chilling to think how close it came to being destroyed forever by the 4x4 butchers. Keep us updated with pics.
Click to expand...

The car was never intended to be a 4x4. Supposedly the old g***er frame was half home built and half somethin else and was flimsy. I guess the car twisted like hell when it launched. The guy who put it on the 4x4 frame just put it on there to hold the body together until he had a new frame. However he never got any further with the project and over time many of the components were parted out. It wasn't until I tried buying it from the previous owner and insisted the other parts be tracked down that it was reunited with the original wheels and front axle.

Finally it is in the right hands and it can be returned to its former glory. This car is a local legend.

Destralo Roach · Dec 20, 2009

plodge55aqua said: ↑

If Im not mistaken.. I this came out of either Washington State or Oregon.. Ive seen it before.. I do like it..

to the Thread starter..cool that you found it..
Click to expand...

Ahhh!!! That was just up the hill from me!!!! I had my Eye on it, but you know, hard times and all, nice to see it doing something, it was just sitting colecting rust!!! Nice save on the 4X4 one as well....Roach.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 20, 2009

Good info Von Hartmann, perhaps with continued hard use the ch***is began to deteriorate. Wayne Shosie said the car was solid, never got squirrelly after dropping the front end and never indicated to me in conversation that the ch***is had been hybirdized with anything else. i will follow up with him on it

initial mock up pics

getting ready to set up the parallel leafs. the original leafs were trash. the axle was not retained by u-bolts, but rather had two allen head capscrews running thru each spring pack intsead of a center bolt. there were 3 holes in the center of most of the leaves. that's a recipe for a broken leaf. the spring was then originally mounted on the bottom of the spring pack. we decided to place the axle atop the spring and have new leaves made. we used off- t******lf 34" x 1 3/4" 2000 lb trailer springs and had the main leaf redrilled to relocate the center pin about 1 1/2 inches rearward, and the second leaf removed. we used 2000 lb trailer perches and hardware to flip the axle.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Dec 20, 2009

those old perches will be cut away later, and the rear hangers will be fully gusseted

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 7, 2010

ok, it's been a while and we have made some progress. also, thanks to some good friends here on the H.A.M.B. and original builder Wayne Shosie we have a little more of the story to tell.

and some more cool parts

Steering...

we settled on the choice of an early aluminum Corvair steering box both to keep the lightweight theme and to keep the sixties vibe going. the car was set up originally with cross-steering with a box of now-unknown origin. Rich Bickle Sr. gave us a sweet deal on this one. it's nice and tight too...

the Corvair can't be a rear-steer and a cross steer without steering backwards. we decided to reverse the Corvair gear and make a straddle mount to mount atop the frame rail

here are the parts required to reverse the box.

the freeze plug is a 15/16" driven thru the old input hole from the inside pushing out.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 7, 2010

the aluminum end frame was tig welded solid in the cross-hair webbed area inside the hex and rough bored in a lathe to allow the steering input shaft to p*** thru for mock-up. later on, we will bore a 15/16" diameter, 1/4" deep step in it for the new seal.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 7, 2010

here are the beginnings of the straddle mount. we used a couple of existing threaded holes in the frame for the trans crossmember for the main angle iron bracket

another tab was drilled with a 1/2" hole and another hole was located with a transfer punch and will provide a mounting point on the outside of the rail

a 3/8" thick steel plate was drilled with the Corvair triangular pattern and bolted onto the box, then tacked into place. note that the steering shaft is mocked into place to check angle and steering wheel position. the shaft is early ford with the Corvair stub temporarily tacked just to get the mock-up done. a step will be turned on the Corvair stub and it will be pressed into the shortened ford shaft and tig-welded

some gussets were made to support the 3/8" plate and tacked into place

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 7, 2010

Firewall....

we left the original angle iron flange that had been riveted into the cowl after cutting away the center supports. Alex then skip welded around the old angle iron with the mig-welder to tie it in a little more. our first cross-tube in the floor grid was placed 8" back from this angle iron flange and this will be our new firewall location to accommodate an approximate 10% engine setback. the outboard uprights tilt inwards to follow the door frames.

the engine and headers were rough-mocked into place for the first time. the headers appear to be old Chevy II fenderwells

we fish-mouthed the upper braces that will form the dash

that's it for tonite. tomorrow, we will show you motor mounts and header mods in more detail

yardgoat · Jan 7, 2010

I never realy thought about doing a steering box like that.Is that a standard kit only for Corvair ? Do they make them for other makes? Also realy good work,cool car great save,good luck.........................YG

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 8, 2010

yardgoat, to my knowledge there is no ready-made "kit" to reverse a Corvair box, although for a LOT more $$$$$, one can purchase an already-reversed new unit from Flaming River. we just jumped in and came up with this on our own but i'm sure it's no different than anyone else has done. it is common practice to use a reversed Corvair in T-buckets, track-T's, and other light-weight hot rod applications.

bobwop · Jan 8, 2010

keep up the good work, Dan.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 8, 2010

thanks Bob. speaking of Bob, we owe him a BIG, H.A.M.B.-style thank you for hooking us up with a very important component for this car...a Clutch-flite transmission. here are some shots....

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 8, 2010

for those that are not in the know, before the days of reliable, hi-stall converters for modern automatics, the next progression beyond the beefed Hydro were the Clutch-flites. what was done to create one, was to simply saw the bellhousing away from the case, machine a flat on the outside bolt pattern of the front pump to which was bolted a billet aluminum plate (which is missing here) that had a collar for the throwout bearing to ride on and bolted to a manual transmission blow-proof bellhousing. a drive spider (also missing here) mated to the special pump drive shaft shown. a special input shaft was used that had the late Hemi 4-speed spline count and pilot.

this car was fitted with a Clutch-flite in '69 when it was rebuilt with Elverne (Al) Pfeiffer's injected '65 A990 race hemi. both were used in the '33 Willys that Al crashed aug 24, 1968. thanks to all who contributed to the thread about Al the other day.

here is the thread in case anyone missed it. pay attention to the front wheels on the 33 and the rears on the 1967 incarnation of the 33, and the rear wheels used on his 41. those are the very wheels used on our car.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4759295

t5stang91 · Jan 8, 2010

stopped by today to see the car, its coming along. wish my garage was as warm as his lol

Kurto · Jan 8, 2010

What an awesome rescue project! Best of luck with it all.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 8, 2010

a little more historical perspective is due here. in my hasty note-taking with my phone interview with Wayne Shosie, i got a couple of details wrong or at least, less complete than they should have been. he also clarified some points as well. i will let him tell the story....and amend the first post of this thread

on the beginnings of the car...

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ch****t=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Do***ent"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cowner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cowner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cowner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style>[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"I was the designer and actually fabricated the car. Larry made any parts that required machining and also helped[/FONT][FONT=&quot] with most of the fabrication. Gregg donated the engine & drive train from his 1963 Plymouth A/SS, which he bought new, and campaigned in 1963. When the Hemi came out in 1964 he decided not to try to compete. Our first attempt to build an A/G***er was with a 1930 Plymouth (we wanted to use a Plymouth body with a Plymouth engine) but it was not to be… Larry’s friend, Gary Conkling who operated a grain and feed store in Garden Prairie, came up with a workable Henri J and an old house trailer, which we turned into a car hauler trailer.[/FONT]"

"I ordered a 1966 Chevy ½ ton pickup and the brightest color available (that we all agreed on) was Omaha Orange and so we painted “Henri” Omaha orange. ’66 was the first year we raced it. Vietnam was just starting to become a problem for young men and my brother joined the Guard and so, even though it was his engine he was usually away at camp and so Larry drove (Since I new too much about the design and construction, I did not care to drive it). I borrowed $2500 and bought Als motor in the spring of ’69 and by May we were back racing and running a lot faster. I purchased a new Chevy pickup in 1969 – Omaha Orange of course!"<o></o>

(about the weight at 1740 lbs...)

" [FONT=&quot]My mistake – the weight was 1940 lbs (4.5 lbs/cu in X 430 cu in = 1935)"

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot](on the subject of the UDRA, and losing interest in the car....) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
"In the late sixties I was very active with UDRA and was the coordinator for the G***ers. In 1968 I became divorced and eligiable for the draft for a brief time. I remarried in 1970 and became interested in a new hobby – snow skiing."

(on what happened to the car after it was sold....)

"The car was NOT raced after we sold it. The engine was sold to a circle track racer and was ran for two years in a modified. The engine had Alcoa aluminum heads when we raced it and they were replaced with standard cast iron heads -- the engine held up well. I designed and built a "girdle"
that greatly strengthened the the bottom end."

"The transmission was a clutchflite with the Hemi - I used a standard torqueflite with the wedge motor. I was just beginning to evaluate a heavier flywheel and double disc clutch when we lost interest and put the car up for sale."

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 8, 2010

it was good talking to you again today Chris.

i promised motor mount and header details... back to business....

we recycled the lower control arm brackets that were torched off the 61 Olds axle housing and made some lower biscuit mount brackets from them. the motor was then leveled and positioned. the block-side brackets are of unknown origin provided from the current owner of the car.

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 8, 2010

as mentioned, the headers appear to be old Chevy II fenderwells of some sort. the collectors hit the frame and the downtubes were not meant to be used with a firewall with no toe-boards as we are building as they interfered. the drivers side looked more promising than the p***enger side. they would clearly need some m***aging.

the flange was completely cut away on the p***enger side and lengths of tubing were added "wedging" it away from the head about 3 1/2" in back, 3" in the center and about 2" in front to keep the radius

some of this was also done because the tubes had some old repairs done in the flange area over the years and material needed to be replaced.

here are the mods to the drivers side. we just had to wedge it away around 1 1/4" towards the back and the tops of the tubes were pie cut at the port flange to **** the collector away from the frame.

lorodz · Jan 8, 2010

looking good

Zig Zag Wanderer · Jan 9, 2010

thanks for the encouraging words, everyone

i just got this e-mail as i was posting tonite.....

"Dan,
My name is Larry Vail, The Vail in VAIL/CONKLING/SHOSIE BROS A/G***ER
Wayne Shosie sent me your e-mail about the car. Can't believe it's still all
there, the body I mean.
You are correct on El Pfieffer, we bought the Hemi, clutchflite trans, trans blanket and parachute from El after he flipped his 33 Willys at Union Grove, Wi

The car has always been Hugger Orange since first built with the 426 Max Wedge. Gregg Shosie bought a 1963 Sport Fury from Bryden (Motors) in Beloit Wi. We raced it in A Super Stock Cl*** for a year. Gregg wanted to drive the car daily so we decided to pull the engine, trans and rear end for the Henry J project.
He bought a 1963 383 engine, trans and rear from a wreck and put in his Plymouth.

Please keep in touch on this project, wish we never would have gotten rid of the car

Any questions I can help you with let me know.
Is there anyway we could get the footage Von Hartman is talking about ?"

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Projects Vail, Conkling & Shosie Bros. A/Gas Henry J found, rescue begun!

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