I have to adjust the valves in my 235 running or a couple will end up being too loose,get it warm and lower the idle some and its not too hard.
Tommy's right---I was never able to figure out how to adjust them when not running---usually put up with the mess until I got a set of rocker arm clips for the sbc---8 and 18 on the Duntovs we ran when we were kids.
Warm it up and shut it down and adjust them. Or get rid of those damn solids. I had a big block chevy with solids, and I had to adjust the damn things everytime I really abused her. It was a nasty cam and the reponse when dialed in well, was well worth it when she ran on the money, but the work is not worth it (in my opinion). When you are talking thousanths, you can't have that tork on the gauge slamming every second; think about it; it really isn't logical. The tolerence needs to be set at lash and I can imagine that all that spring weight at 800 rpm, constantly hammering that eight dollar feeler's gauge blade is not so great or accurate?.Take a ball pean hammer and keep tapping a 30 thousanths blade, see what happens after three minutes of constant tapping! Pork
How do you think the ***embly plants did it in the old days with solid lifters???.... They adjusted those cold!! .004"-.006" (I believe) smaller than the actual "hot" clearance like on a .030"/.030" cam for a 327 or 302 chevy motor...
....... On another note, anyone ever watch those Top Fuel guys setting lash on those blown hemis??? Those are set cold also....
Just another old hotrodders skill that had to be learned that is now lost to history. You had to acquire the feel. My clips came mounted on a red metal holder that was proudly displayed on the inside my 10 drawer tool box lid for everyone to see when it was open. I guess it sounds foolish today but for me back then it was something to be proud of. Another notch in a young hotrodders belt. There were not that many guys that had acquired that skill. I guess you had to be there.
Good way to trash a feeler gauge. Believe it or not a feeler gauge is a precision piece of steel and if you hammer on it it will squash it out and it will no longer be accurate. I usually bring the engine up to temp then shut it down and then start adjusting the valves as soon as I can get the rocker covers off without burning my fingers. On a fresh engine i adjust the valves a little loose then break the cam in shut it down and adjust the valves before it cools off. Never rthe less never try to adjust solids with the engine running and if you can avoid it don't adjust hydraulics with the engine running either. You can find a cold setting for most cam shafts. There is a rule of thimb for guessing the cold setting but it is close at best. On a top fuel motor you would need to know the cold setting exact because when the engine is warm you tear it down and rebuild for the next round unless you are bumped out by someone else. Trad from what I understand if it is us it can only "make" an *** out of you.
Personally, I have never done a solid lifter motor running. Hydraulics, yeah. I don't see how you can get anything close to precise done, with a rocker moving up and down. Even newer BMW's have solids, and they do it warmed, and shut down, for the most precise setting. And the old cam manufacturers used to give you hot and cold gaps to adjust the valves.
It is much more accurate to set a solid lifter flat tappet cam with the engine running and hot. It is not rocket science just an aquired feel with practice. Yes your feeler gauge can wear after many valve adjustments but this is very negligable and easy to check with a micrometer. With a solid roller and roller rockers or rocker shafts you can be pretty accurate without the engine running but there is no comparison when setting the lash on a 30 30, l-88 or any old school valve train. Those who argue this had better do it both ways[if you know how] and compare. Yes it is messy, hot, and a pain in the *** but the end result is correct valve adjustment.
A 1500 hp motor is not a 365 327. If you would read before opening your mouth you might learn something. I agree that this method is not possible or practicle with many engines.
Simple solution to settin valves"solid lifters". Warm engine up. Shut off and get #1 cylinder on tdc. Adjust valves on exhaust cylinder #1-#3-#4-#8..adjust valve on intake cylinder #1-#2-#5-#7. Rotate enging 360 degrees to #6 cylinder. Adjust exhaust valve on cylinder #2-#5-#6-#7. Set intake valve on cylinder #3-#4-#6-#8. There you have it. Larry
Yeah, Hydraulic lifters are the only ones that I have EVER seen adjusted while running. Solids require a specific lash and adjusting them while running will only get you hurt, bent pushrods or worse, broken rockers and a broken jaw when the rocker flys apart....
Lets see how long we can streach a thread......SOME engines you can adjust while running, others you have to do it with the engine off......SBC's with clips on the rockers can be done.....the last BBC I adjusted while running (1975) caught fire when it snorted out the open PCV valve adjusting an intake.
You'd have a tough time with a flathead V8 This is from Crane Cams Mechanical Lifters All pushrod engines using mechanical (solid) lifters, or mechanical roller lifters, must have an adjustable valve train so that precise adjustment for "Valve Lash" can be made to match the camshaft's requirements. Valve lash is the running clearance that exists between the tip of the valve stem and the valves mating surface of the rocker arm. (It is expressed in the Crane Catalog as "Valve Lash" and on the camshaft specification card as "Valve Setting". Both terms mean the same thing.) The amount of valve lash can vary between camshaft profile designs, being as small as .010" on some and as great as .035" on others. It is important to use the recommended valve lash when you first test the performance of the engine. You must also be concerned with thermal expansion of the engine components. (This is especially true if using aluminum alloy cylinder heads, or block.) For this reason, Crane requires that the valve lash be set with the engine "Hot" on all pushrod engines using mechanical lifters. This will insure that the minimum required clearance (valve lash) is maintained throughout the engine's operating temperature range. Compensating for a Cold Engine when Adjusting Valve Lash When installing a new cam, the engine will be cold but the lash specifications are for a hot engine. What are you to do? There is a correction factor that can be used to get close. We mentioned that the alloy of the engine parts can be affected by thermal expansion in different ways, therefore the amount of correction factor to the lash setting depends on whether the cylinder heads and block are made out of cast iron or aluminum. You can take the "hot" setting given to you in the catalog or cam specification card and alter it by the following amount to get a "cold" lash setting. With iron block and iron heads, add .002" With iron block and aluminum heads, subtract .006". With both aluminum block and heads, subtract .012". Remember this correction adjustment is approximate and is only meant to get you close for the initial start up of the engine. After the engine is warmed up to its proper operating temperature range, you must go back and reset all the valves to the proper "hot" valve lash settings. Setting Valve Lash on Mechanical Cams All the valves must be set individually and only when the lifter is properly located on the base circle of the lobe. At this position the valve is closed and there is no lift taking place. How will you know when the valve you are adjusting is in the proper position with the lifter on the base circle of the cam? This can be accomplished by watching the movement of the valves. 1. When the engine is hot (at operating temperature) remove the valve covers and pick the cylinder that you are going to adjust. 2. Hand turn the engine in its normal direction of rotation while watching the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. When the exhaust valve begins to open, stop and adjust that cylinder's intake valve. (Why? Because when the exhaust is just beginning to open, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the lobe, so the intake is the one we can now adjust.) 3. Use a feeler gauge, set to the correct valve lash, and place it between the tip of the valve stem and rocker arm. Adjust until you arrive at the proper setting and lock the adjuster in place. 4. After the intake valve has been adjusted, continue to rotate the engine, watching that same intake valve. The intake valve will go to full lift and then begin to close. When the intake is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. (Again, when we see the intake valve almost closed, we are sure that the exhaust lifter is on the base circle of the lobe.) Use the feeler gauge and follow the procedure described before in step 3. 5. Both valves on this cylinder are now adjusted, so move to your next cylinder and follow the same procedure again. In the future you may find shortcuts to this method, but it still remains the best way to do the job correctly.
Apparently they still make them for us ignorant old fools 40 something years later Check it out They must be some dumb SOBs
On all our solid cam motors (roller, flat tappet, shaft rockers, stud girdles, no stud girdles, canted valve, inline valve, aluminum heads, steel heads....any motor!!), we set them cold, period. We rough set them cold as Crane suggests then run the motor in and get it warm then shut it off. We pull the valve cover and adjust I/E on 1 cylinder then quit. We use the method outlined above by the Crane folks to set the hot cylinder. We then walk away. Once the motor has completely cooled, we go back to that same cylinder checking both I/E and see what the ACTUAL cold lash is. That is then what we adjust all valves at for that perticular motor for it's whole life. We only adjust one hot cylinder then we have the correct cold setting. Much easier to set cold and a lot less messy. Also, if you try to adjust everything once you shut it off it will cool fast enough to effect lash between the first and last valve. Done it that way for almost 30 years now. The method somebody listed above for setting lash based on TDC for a couple cylinders will work fine for a very mild or stock cam in a SBC. It can be adapted to other motors if you look at the firing order and valve layout. Once you start getting into cams with a lot of overlap, I wouldn't suggest that method. Works great on stock stuff. Also, as a quick side note. If you run a stud girdle, adjust it hot as I outlined then check it cold. Then tighten your stud girdle to spec and check it again. I've seen it move lash .003 if it was a bad job of putting in threaded holes for studs or a canted valve head is especially bad. JMO, SPark
Personally, I try to avoid shooting my mouth off about things I havent done, because the guys that HAVE done it are gonna KNOW I'm full of **** and dont know what I'm talking about, because THEY HAVE DONE IT. Just one of those little rules to live by that you only seem to figure out after years of experience...
A little respect and an open mind towards those who were actually there, and who actually did that might go a long way for you to you learn something new, gr***hopper. Don't ever underestimate experience. Pay attention. You should be glad that guys with their knowledge are willing to share it with you (and others). Being rude is not traditional...
Man... That ain't nice.. I joined on here to learn alot of stuff I didn't know.. And most of it makes sense. Plus I love these guys on here.. They keep me in high spirits with their humor during these bad times we're going through.. And most of them here believe in buying American... I couldn't ask for better friends..
You know, Traditions Racing showed his intelligence and knowledge right off the bat. He ****ed it up and said "hey, this JUST might be something I dont know about, and I am ready and willing to not only admit it, but learn". 1320, you have shown us something entirely different. I guess you figure you are the only guy on the face of the planet that has managed to put a street car into the tens (your not), so you know everything there is to know, and as soon as someone mentions something you haven't read in Car Craft, that they must be a dumb***. I will tell you AGAIN. There are a BUNCH of guys right here on this thread that have done EXACTLY what you are telling them cant be done, I am one of them. But I guess at the age of 36, you have learned all you need to know. If I had elected to stop learning new things 24 years ago, I guess I'd be pretty stupid too. Oh yea, and Rick used to race Comp Elim. so you know he has run the valves a few million times over the years as well.
I deleted my messages because this thread is total ********. I will say that I never said it couldn't be done i said it isn't the best way. Your judging me. I am a very humble person who does realize my accomplishments aren't ****!! It is what it is. I do it my way.. you do it yours!!! end of story!!!
And yet here you are! BTW, FWIW I use the "set one cylinder hot, let the engine cool down, measure the lash, and set the other cylinders method". Works good enough for the junk I work on. Larry T
Given the 'qoutient' of all the factors added up with clearances, cam lobe irregularities, valve-to-guide clearances, etc., etc. the tried-and-true way to adjust shaft rockers with solid flat tappets was to adjust them running. This method combined all the outside factors to replicate any false lash achieved when adjusting with engine not running...(such as clearance in rocker-to-shaft, rocker side clearance, etc.) If there is existent clearance in the train, the final adjustment will be the valve lash when the engine is running. I have been adjusting Chevy sixes, Buick OHV eights, etc., successfully in this manner since 1957. I had to. I had a Master with an eagle eye, and what he said went. Period!
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