the HA/GR was never intended to be 'cookie cutter' or 'spec'. the rules were left loose and open for interpretation on purpose. two words... Barn Job
Most folks that are into this kind of thing are really into the history of drag racing... They know it and don't really need the photos.
That's probably true. I dig it, just wasn't in line to write a book about it, or ready to give tours at the hall of fame. I'm the guy going through my buddies boneyard, and he holds up something and says, "Oh man, know what this is?"...My reply is usually, "No, but it's cool as ****, let's weld it to something". I know what I want, I just don't know what to call it. If that makes sense. I know how to build it, just don't know the exact year of what it is I'm replicating, just that I DIG THE **** OUT OF IT. That's where you guys come in, with nudges in the right direction. My interpretation will have little differences, based on personal tastes. I hope to be on the right track. But it is possible when it's all said and done, that somebody looks at it and says, "DUFUS... that's what an altered looked like in 1971..." or whatever. That's NOT an HA/gr car. And I'm okay with that. BUT I'm gonna give it my best shot.
Okay, It's official. I'm a firm believer of "until it's on your trailer, it ain't yours." Well, It's on my trailer and in my yard. It's mine. Now, to start planning. ***le says 55, although it's got the older grill of a 54. I need to start learning about the oiling is it a "babbitt beater"? Gonna have to start learning the 235 "lingo"...
Firstly, let it be clear that I admire your persistancy and enthusiasm....but I keep seeing your posts, and keep thinking that you want to build a FED (which is cool,and a kick **** deal), but in the interest of preventing disapointment (ie yours), a HA/GR car isn't really going to 'rattle ya cans' if you really want a FED... stick the chev 6 in, make it as our forefathers did, cram that enthusiasm into that car, have fun doing so, bring it to Mokan, and have a blast... F.E.D.......you know you want to..... Cheers, Drewfus
Chevrolet made two 1955 models. They had I guess a lot of 54's left so it was a 55 for a short while and then they wanted to put the 265 V-8 into it and a new design to go along with it. In short you may have lucked out.The 55 235 has the water pump well below the water neck. There is a lot of the block showing between the two. If it isn't don't dispair it still may be a full pressure oiler. If the valve cover is screwed on with screws rather than with two studs sticking up through the center it is a full pressure oiler. Lastly look at the casting number in front of the distributor if it starts with 38 or a 37 it is a full pressure oiler. Hope this helps.Roy
What makes you think it's not a 1955 Chevy? Do a little research, and you'll find that body style carried over into 1955, until the updated body style was available. Do you know the difference between a GMC engine and a Chevy engine? Do you know the difference between a Traditional Hot Rod and a "Rat Rod"? Do a little reasearch on the history of drag racing before you decide what kind of race car you want. I wanted to build a race car that represented the early days of organized drag racing. I reasearched it, built it, raced it, and loved it. I still love the HA/GR, but I've decided to try something different. I have recently bought 1960's front engined dragster (FED). I love it too, but in a different way. My wants and needs changed. I thought about building a new HA/GR race car, but my ideas just didn't fit the era. Rather than re-defining the 1950's, I just moved to a different era. It's possible to be a traditionalist and an individual just look at all your options before you build.
Don't mistake my lack of knowing the correct terminology or year of a part for anything more than it is. I'm not a museum curator, I'm guy that loves cars from a take 'em apart and put 'em together perspective, not from a debate the values of this year over that year kind of guy. I'm not here to debate Ford vs Chevy, or domestic vs, import , or anything similar.. They're all fun. I even like Donks. Makes no difference to me. It's got wheels, let's play with it and have a good time. I've got fast stuff... I don't need more fast stuff (and the maintenance that goes with it.). Hence the beauty of this. Something to have fun in. This is all about the build to me. I might call it the wrong thing, but I know what it supposed to look like in the end.
There was 2 different body styles in 55, one like the 54 and one like the later 55, the way to tell an early series 55 is it has an open drive shaft and the 54 has an inclosed driveshaft. Joe
I type fast so I can drag out a post like most people can only dream..., don't read any "tone" into any of this. I'm not mad, I'm not upset. I'm just talking. Don't take anything more from it than that. If I look angry or argumentative, I'm not. Years of forum use have taught me to be modest and not ***ume. Keeps a person out of trouble. I know it's a 55. By not claiming to be an expert nobody feels obligated to flame me for not knowing the little idiosyncrasies of it all. Nope, don't care either. It hasn't come up yet. Inline stuff is new to me. I'll learn it as I blow the hell out of this one. Then I'll care. I'm running this engine as it came outta the truck. I have a rough idea. (don't mistake modesty for lack of knowledge). I will add (having done it), that I lack the ability to make what the the mainstream media considers to be a "ratrod". I can't do ****ty work on purpose, and I tend to build things out of the correct parts even though an old metal fence post might work. My personal opinion is that I find the best looking "ratrods" come from people that lack proper tools, know how, patience, experience, and skill. From what I've seen, with few exceptions, the best looking and ratty rods, come from folks that have no business building cars... at all... Mind you, that's my opinion. But that's why they look good in that category. A friend of mine wanted to build a ratrod. I told him he couldn't do it. He said why not? I said because you already know how to weld, And I watched you spend 3 LONG weeks fitting hinges on your 33, and then most of a year looking for this "particular" carb part. You're not capable of doing ****ty work. I'm sorry "ratty" work. We'll right now it's something based on the "spirit" of an HA/GR car. You guys realize that a car is a car right? You don't have to own it forever, and you can make or buy another one. This isn't a permanent decision. Appreciate the note. As I mentioned, I'm going down the initial path of an HA/GR. It's possible I don't make it all the way to the end of that path, and it becomes something else. Or I combine paths and make something un-acceptable to everybody. Cars are like art to me. I build from the heart. The real problem with people that say "well, an HA/GR car is more along the lines of this, or that, or has the spirit of this other thing"... Hmm, guess what, there'es going to be some interpretation in there, if there isn't a finite set of build criteria. Or if the main criteria is the "spirit" of it. Don't think for a minute that the kid in that "bug" car would have built it the same if he'd had more money, better tools, or different freinds helping or scrounged different stuff. That's what he made with what he had available to him at the time. Other cars from that time look different. They don't all look the same. What is the exact parameter around, "era"? At some point somebody needs to step up, as a few of you have, and said, I'm not so sure that Torsion tube came into play until the 60's. So what defines the era? 1948-1958? We defined engines with an exact cutoff date to curtail certain technology... Maybe the bug was the start of that era, and the torsion tube the end, of the same era. This would be easier if everybody were less Cryptic about it.
Thoiught about it some more. Easier to explain with photos. A person that builds a good looking ratrod, "generally" does not see the problem with doing any of the following. (my opinion). Here are some examples of people that could effectively build a sweet ratrod. (I'm probably not making any friends with this, but have a sense of humor). These guys could build a ratrod that would win any car show.
Build quality is only one element that defines a "rat rod". You can have the best welds and quality engineering and still have a cobbed-up, cartoon joke. This isn't a rat rod board. It's a traditional hot rod board. Building an era specific rail job is one of the most hard-core traditional things you can do. I'm not meaning to slam you. Just slow down and try to understand the meaning of traditional hot rod.
No troubles. Point me at some dates that define the era for the bug and I'll be on a better course. the "spirit of the bug" has some dates that would have to ***ociated with whatever "era" means to that car.
I thought you didn't want this, because that would make it "cookie cutter" And we're not trying to be cryptic, the answers you're asking for are somewhat hard to give in clear, defined, straight answers. There's something of an expectation here that if you're ready to build one of these, that you have an understanding of what it is you are about to undertake.
No, no... other people don't want the cookie cutter thing. I would like it more defined. If you want cars to look like they are from that era, that "era" needs to be defined a bit. Gimme a date, plus or minus 5 years would be a big help. I have to look at pictures, I love the stuff but wasn't alive then... help a brother out. Clearly if my idea is wrong, I could use some direction. Although, I'm pretty confident want I want in "MY" era specific Gas Rail. The fun is in the build. If it doesn't look right, we'll make another, it's fun, and not that big a deal, really. If it doesn't look like an era specific car, or not within the spirit of the bug, I'm cool with that. It happens. We gave it our best shot. The problem with a term like "spirit" is how subjective it is. It's like art. We've all seen some pretty ****py art, sell for more than all our houses combined... I wouldn't put it under a car to keep oil off the floor.
Already built one? How many guys are on their second HA/GR build? I don't mean helping a buddy build a car. I mean when they finish, now they have two of their own. I've built cars, I know what I need, every single part... But not if it's to match the "spirit" of an HA/GR. Haven't built one yet. And it may not be an HA/GR when I'm done. That's the nature of open ended ideas. It's open to interpretation. Everybody that's built one has built "their version" of what they interpret the ideas to be. Not all are legal, not all look the same, some have engines past 1962, etc. When ours are built, and everybody steps back and says, "you know, I don't know if that's era specific or not". I'm gonna shake my head in disbelief, toss up my hands and say, "well, at least I asked"... And then go to the track...
your words-- I feel that even if I've missed the mark by a small amount and made ours safer, that it will still "reflect" that period and bring attention to it more than anything else at our track. Remember, it's the "spirit of it", that seems to be important, not the exact execution in a cookie cutter fashion. One extra piece of roll bar isn't a deal breaker for me. I suspect if I find myself in the pits explaining the car, I can say something like, "...This is how they did it in the 50's, with the exception of we added this extra piece on the roll bar for safety..." Who'd begrudge a man for that? Or even care? they may not be cookie cutter representations of 50's cars to the highly informed and discriminating few. But they likely will p*** as EXACT 50's replicas to 999 out of 1000 people at the track. And that spreads the word and keeps it alive.
Exactly my words. And I was trying to point out that everybody else wants a cookie cutter build with no direction, and that might not be, based on Cryptic answers. Cookie cutter, to me, means looks like this, or in the "spirit". If it doesn't look like the concept then I built it wrong and it's not a cookie cutter built car.
Can we get that added to the rules? Make life easier for those of us that weren't at the track in the 50's, although are spirits are now. And to be clear. Your interpretation of "the era" is things built and run in 1950-1955. 1949, no good, to old.
This whole thread has gotten nuts. Perhaps my fault for trying to hard to please others. In the "spirit" of the bug, I'm gonna build our cars my way. I'll post pics of it when it's done. And we can debate whether or not it works as an HA/GR or not. All were doing here is wearing out potential friendships, and it's just not worth that to me. You guys are to valuable as potential friends to lose over something that requires this kind of debate, over a car you may never see in person. I'll start another thread when were done with one. you know I'm a picture taking machine, and type EXCESSIVELY. It will be well pictured and hopefully an ***et to the board. What were doing here is not actually an ***et to anything, and I'm starting to get uncomfortable with what outsiders see and how they view something I enjoy. Just not worth it. I'll still hang out and hopefully be a decent member of the community. Gas Rail in progress, we'll debate it when it's done.
i guess... in short, the answer to your question of "whats the era" and "whats the spirit" if you really need to put THIS MUCH THOUGHT into the spirit aspect of one of these, you wont understand it anyhow. you want tire smoke. you want suspension setups that werent in use you want to use round trussed tubing for a ch***is base build an FED and be done with it. something with a small block and a blower. slingshot trussed frame ch***is with big *** MT's out back and a chute. an HA/GR car is going to bore you to tears, trust me i can see you comming a mile away
My 2 cents ,from a HA/GR owner / builder stand point ! Look at my "build diary " and see if you notice all the stories and m***ive typing abilities ? Nope just pictures of what I was BUILDING !!! Hence BUILD diaries !!! Show us some pix. of your HA/GR build !!!!!
Hi Vector!, I don't think that anyone want's to try to tell you how to style your car, If they all looked alike that would be sooooooo boring, so build it your way and we will all enjoy looking at your build. If you look at the pictures of the Austrialian cars, that's by far the most that have been together. You will probably not see any that are just alike. They changed two things in their rules. More cage and no four barrels. The left coast cars that are running are totaly different, and I like that. The most of these that have been together in the states is seven in Tulsa. There is a rummer that for the next season in Tulsa that there will be over ten thousand prize money. So maybe I can in the future say, Welcome to Tulsa. Joe
I like the 50-55 deal. That helps me understand a bit better too. I have somewhat of a philosophical question, and I am NOT wanting to stir hornets. If we're wanting to stick to 50-55, why have the engine run on to 60? Are we ***uming that a dude having an open wheel, minimal dragster in that time period would have updated it until 60? Updating the same ch***is until then sounds plausible to me. I LOVE the flathead V8 or inline only rule - that's why I'm interested in this cl***. A chance to see forgotten engines strut their stuff. I'm playing catchup on ch***is, the "look" involved, etc. All this discussion is a big help to me, in understanding what's acceptable and gaining a better appreciation for the era. An era I had not really studied before in such detail beyond the stock cl***es. Hud
i believe the motor rule is based on availability....and bearings... not every one wants to race with babbits. most of the motors thru the cut of date had been almost the same type and config. for many years so in essence they still fit the era.
yep... the only motor i know of that kinda squeaks through the cracks a bit and is accepted by most of us is the leaning tower of power... or as moon calls em "hillside hemi"
Slant sixes were a major change post '55. Otherwise, mopar guys have no choice but the flathead 6's. The OHV, smaller Ford sixes were brand spankin' new in '55. Barely inside the window. The "babbit problem" is kinda unique to Chevy/GMC, which leaves them in a pickle for sure. They are really about the only engines benefitting from the lengthened cutoff date. I can kinda see how this balances out. I can also see some windows of opportunity for the orphans and oddballs to play - which is a good thing. I love this cl***.
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