"Versatile" Packard V-8 ???

----------------
No, ARDUN was NOT a make of car! It was
merely the model-name for the short-lived
and highly unpopular, but top of the line,
super-custom-deluxe Henway wood-bodied
'convertible station wagon' in '56 and '57.
You know, the one that used highly modified
war-surplus Cadillac flathead V8 tank engines,
converted to sleeve valves and polyspherical
combustion chamber heads - that was
designed and marketed as being "proudly
pseudo-engineered exclusively for Henway
use only" (thank god!!) - by "Crackers"
Duntov, the insane younger brother of Zora
Arkus Duntov, the designer of the famous
and strangely, identically named "Ardun" flat
head Ford hemi conversion heads!!!!!


Mart3406
==========================

 

Mart3406, thanks, man. I think I missed school the day they discussed the ARDUN. LOL. Rich Fox straightened me out on that one, BUT you surely provided a ton of detials I didn't know. By ANY chance do you have any PIX of this unfortunate contraption?

 

-------------------
How about Packard marine conversions?
At least two companies Stockton Marine in
California and Stokes Marine in Michigan
built and sold marinizd versions of the
'55-56. Packard V8. I think Stockton
started first in '55 or '56 using current
production engines purchasd directly from
Packard and Stokes a bit later from 1957
or so and continuing into the early 1960s
using surplus Packard V8s left over after
production stopped in July 1956. Rumor
has it that Stokes bought several hundred
surplus Packard engines at a time from
SASCO for 200 dollars a piece and the
supply lasted well into the 1960's.

Mart3406
--------------

 

.

------------------------
Sorry, no pics. They were all burned - along
with the mutilated corpses of the entire
convertible station wagon project design and
marketing teams - and the complete and entirely
unsold '56 and '57 Henway 'Ardun' production
run, during a massive corporate exorcism
ceremony held at the Henway Motors
headquarters in early 1957. I forgot to add too,
the ARDUN model name for the ill-fated Henway
convertible station wagon came about when
the head of the engineering team that designed
this hideous engineering and styling monstrosity,
upon seeing the completed "car" for the first
time,realizing the folly of what they had done,
uttered the prophetic words, "Oh god! We
are done!". Unfortunately, the marketing
team, mishearing and misunderstanding him,
then named the model the "ARDUN"!

Mart3406
(Official 'Henway Motors Corporation'
historian)
=======================

 

QUOTE: How about Packard marine conversions?
At least two companies Stockton Marine in
California and Stokes Marine in Michigan
built and sold marinizd versions of the
'55-56. Packard V8. I think Stockton
started first in '55 or '56 using current
production engines purchasd directly from
Packard and Stokes a bit later from 1957
or so and continuing into the early 1960s
using surplus Packard V8s left over after
production stopped in July 1956. Rumor
has it that Stokes bought several hundred
surplus Packard engines at a time from
SASCO for 200 dollars a piece and the
supply lasted well into the 1960's.

Mart3406

Jimi: Damn, Mart! Man, did YOU just add a chapter to the Packard "versatility" theme right THERE! GREAT info, dood!

 

QUOTE: Sorry, no pics. They were all burned - along
with the entire design and marketing teams
- and the complete and entirely unsold '56
and '57 Henway 'Ardun' production run, during
a massive corporate exorcism ceremony held
at the Henway Motors headquarters in early
1957.I forgot to add too, the ARDUN model
name for the ill-fated Henway convertible
station wagon came about when the engineers
who designed this engineering and styling
monstrosity, upon seeing their completed
creation and realizing the folly of what they
had done, uttered the prophetic words,
"Oh god! We are done!". Unfortunately,
the marketing team, mishearing and
misunderstanding them, then named the
model the "ARDUN"!

Mart3406

Jimi: Mart, buddy, I am starting to get the impression you are not fond of ARDUN?

 

RE Post #145, ShopRat, that was the Briggs body company that built Packard's regular-production bodies. (Packard dealt with custom houses, too, of course). Briggs, I think, was Detroit's biggest body builder. All things considered, it is hard for me not to believe Chrysler wanted to make life a tad harder for Packard. But, to their credit, they had a talented and dedicated corps of workers and craftsmen. Pretty amazing they adapted as quickly as they did!

 

I think you misread me. Apparently there's an adapter to replace the Packard Ultramatic with a 727. Have heard you have to cut or remove the bell from the trans to use it.

Then I was referring to adapting a dual-coupling Hydramatic. They used a bellhousing to mate to most GM motors. I don't know why you couldn't fabricate your own adapter piece to run one behind most any motor. Same would go for the Buick Nailhead pattern TH400s.

Hudsons were available with a slant-pan hydro in the early '50s, I'd have to look in my book to see just what years, I remember crawling over a '54 with one in a junkyard like 20 years ago.

 

Another Packard V8 Marine conversion


Another Packard V8 Marine conversion - this one
a dual-quad , Paxton supercharged, '56 374 inch
Packard in a 1958 "Correct Craft" ski boat that
was originally built to tow stunt and water show
skiers at Cyprus Gardens in Florida. Sorry the pic
quality is not great but in 'pic 2. if you look closely
you can make out the blower and some other
engine details. In pic 3 you can see the obviously
enlarged doghouse that was required to cover
this beast!.

Mart3406
========================

 

That mohogany boat ain't shaggy, either!

I wonder if they dynoed this Packard with the Paxton before installing it in the boat (?). Would be COOL to know how a supercharged Pack V-8 stood up agian the McCullough-charged Stude in the '57 GH !!!

 

Almost 100 inches more. The blown Stude is a very good ride in a Lark. A blown Packard would almost have to be outstanding

 

About 90 more CID & blown. WAG of at least 10 percent for the supercharger, so I'm guessing right around 400 genuine hp, if wound out to something in the 5,000 range, such as one might do if pulling a bevy of show skiiers?

 

Ok folks. Look at this one. It is a Packard V-8. Sky Power on the valve covers, odd looking exhaust manifolds, as well as other differences.

Versatile.

Vintageride

 

Wow, Vintage Ride. I don't know what questions to ask first!

Is this the MARINE application of a Packard 352 left over when S-P stopped using them? And "Sky Power" ? Whose label is that?

 

Allright I have seen enough Boat packards. This is a Hot Rod car site. Nads has the right idea. Packards are alive and well in a few places. My house for one. And don't forget, This ride is available to anyone who lives in this area and wants to be a Bonneville star. Or maybe at least there.

 

I was interested to see a post that the Packard was available in the 56 Stude President, but the consensus seems to be it was available only in the Golden Hawk.

My Uncle purchased a new 1956 President. He maintained it had the Packard 352, along with a three speed auto. The combo, along with the light weight of the President and narrow skins, was too slippery for everyday driving and he had the tranny modified to prevent low gear starts in Drive. The way he talked, this was a common dealer solution to the problem.

Me, I don't know. I was just a 14 year old kid at the time and he died in 64. But that is what he told me shortly before his death. He was a car guy and was into that kind of stuff, so I tend to believe him.

Thought some might be interested.

Bill

 

Rich, Sa-weeet! Can you tell us about a few of the mods on this mill? (Also, did you dyno it after you finished the build?) THX

 

B Blue, THANKS for the personal testimony. It ALWAYS helps to get more confirmation on something as scarce as the Pack V-8 in anything other than the GH!

Hey, I see you live in a hot bed of car history there!!!

 

It's a '55 352 + .060 makes it a 363 inch motor. Arias 14 to 1 custom pistons on stock rods with ARP bolts. Stock crank. Isky 505 cam reground for a .519 lift and .33 degrees off the seat. SS valves with 11/32 stems at 374 size. Home ported heads, mostly valve bowl and short side radius. Adjustable rockers and Smith Bros. push rods. Hilborn injection for a 347 type Pontiac streached 7/8 inch to fit the Packard. Roto-Faze ignition. Schifer aluminum flywheel long 11 inch clutch Ford top loader. Pretty much a old style build. No dyno. Guys I let take it out in '07 went 155mph. Who is will ing to step up and beat them?

 

Rich, THAT may be a fairly "straight" hotrod build-up, but it's very TOGETHER! I'm sure you're proud of it; you SHOULD be.

No, at my age, I don't want to try & beat 155. LOL. BTW, did they have it "wound out," or was there still something reserve? Just a logical 'rodding question, bro.

 

Thanks for the interest. I have a couple of uncles that are a few years older than me, will try and see if they remember anything about the pres, they should, they were car crazy teens at the time.

Yes, Connersville has quite a history, although I am from the general area, did not move to Connersville until 4 or 5 years ago. My brother in law's father was an upholsterer and for a time was employed at the Cord/Auburn plant. He tells of Dad working long days and weekends on "Specials" and new models, doing and redoing the interior until the The Brass was satisified.

Also told about a show model that came back to the factory after the show. They put the torch to it to retrieve the lead, two or three hundred pounds worth, then junked the tin. I suppose the running gear went into a production car. Gotta remember that was back in the middle of the Depression.

But great stories.

Bill

 

----------------------------
The Packard Ultramatic was the only auto
trans completely designed and manufactured
"in house' by any of the 'non-big three' auto
manufactures. It didn't have three speeds
though - only two, but a used a fairly loose
converter that also incorporated a lock-up
mechanism. The lock-up converter was
unique to Packard (and a feature that most
other manufactures didn't adopt until
the 1980s) that allowed the converter to be
looser than would otherwise be normal thus
providing lots of torque multiplication and
allowing for high gear starts - but without
slippage, once the car was up to speed.

The early versions of the Ultramatics
were designed to start up in high gear only,
relying on solely on the fairly loose converter
to get the car going/ Then, when the car was
up to speed, the converter would 'lock up',
eliminating any slippage . But low gear had
to - and could only be - selected manually. The
later versions were changed to allow automatic
'low to high' shifts with the tranny starting
out in low. This improved acceleration and low
speed drivability, but there was now also
a definite 1 - 2 shift that could also be felt. The
shift was no more harsh or noticeable than that
of any other car of time , but as some Packard
buyers preferred the seamless high gear only
"shiftless" starts of the older version over the
improved acceleration of the newer version, it
was was designed so that a simple dealer
adjustment could lock out low gear and once
again allow "high gear and converter slippage
only" starts.

Mart3406
=============================

 

Hi, Mart, and thanks for the detailed insight into the UltraMatic. Though the Dual-UltraMatic never made it into production, do you have any idea what the difference between the earlier version and the Dual-UltraMatic was?

Also, just a note, Borg-Warner was a supplier, not an automaker, but they did have a lock-up torque converter, too.

 

Rich & all you other Packard aficionados, hey guys. Any of you know WHAT YEAR the folks at Packard gave in and started developing their own V-8?

I still feel they should have introduced it a year or two sooner. BUT, if they hadn't ironed out all the details, they would NOT have rushed it into new models. Not the way they did business.

This is why I am wondering a bout the question in paragraph ONE, above.

 

----------------------
"Sky Power" was the name S-P used for the 352 Packard when it was installed in thee '56 Studebaker Golden Hawk. The "unusual" manifolds on the engine in the pic are water-cooled marine manifolds , most likely over the counter Barr Marine, Ossa or Stokes Marine pieces sold for do-it yourself conversions in the late 50's through early 60's.

Not to put down Studebakers, but it is interesting and telling that the most desirable Studebaker of the era used a Packard engine, while the last and least desirable Packards were rebadged and re-trimmed Studebakers. An interesting 'what if' scenario would have been if Packard had kept their main assembly and engine plants in Detroit and shut down South Bend instead and moved Studebaker production to Detroit. Maybe, just maybe, Packard could have still built some true, very high end Packards, thus reviving and restoring Packard's prestige 'upper-crust' luxury image, while producing a reduced line of upgraded Studebaker models for the 'bread and butter 'and medium price range markets. Perhaps if they had done this, some of Packard's prestige and image might have rubbed off on Studebaker instead of things happening the other way around.

Mart3406
============================

 

Mart, rather well said! I imagine the folks at Packard kicked themselves,
once thet marriage with Stude was a done deal. (But I love Studes, too!)

Below is a realistically marketable version of how Dick Teague
envisioned the 1957 Packard. With the old Packard plant shut-
tered in July 1956, an ovation was made to FoMoCo to utilize
the chassis of the ongoing land-yacht Lincoln Premier. Ford
declined. The Packard would have sported a 440-CID version
of the OHV V-8 and Dual-Ultramatic transmission.



Source: Publications International

 

How about a 'Plastic Packard'??!! Remember that
old Renwal (and I think maybe later by Revell or
Monogram??) "Visible V8" model kit from back
in the 60's" That engine was very closely based
on the the '55-'56 352 Packard. A few things on
the model were different, notably a much simplified
single plane "X type intake instead of the actual
dual plane manifold that Packard used,and a rather
generic transmission that looks somewhat more
like a GM Hydramatic than a Packard Ultramatic,
but the rest of the engine is pure '55 Packard.V8.

Mart3406
======================

 

---------------------
I'm just speculating on this one, but I'll bet the
proposed but never produced Dual-Range
version of the Ultramatic allowed for converter
lock up in both Low and 2nd gears, giving a sort
of but not quite 'four speed' effect. The car
would start off in low gear with the slipping
converter multiplying torque to provide brisk
acceleration. Once partially underway, but
still in low gear , the converter would go into
lock up mode giving the *effect* of
a 1st or Low-range"intermediate gear".
Then the when tranny upshifted to second,
if the load on the engine was was still great
enough, the converter, would un-lock
providing the *effect* of a "2nd or High-range
"intermediate gear"'. When the car reached
cruise speed and/or the driver eased up on
the throttle, the converter would once again
go to normal full high gear lock up. I'm just
guessing of course because the Dual-Range
Ultramatic never made it to production, but
that's how I envision one working anyway.
Does anybody else have some different/better
theories or better yet,. some actual
information?

Mart3406
==========================

 

---------------------

[ "This ride is available to anyone who
lives in this area and wants to be a
Bonneville star. Or maybe at least
there.]


I would think that just being at Bonneville
with something as outragously "dare to
be different" cool as a Packard powered
Vega (!!) would be enough to be a
counted as star in most peoples books!

Mart3406
------------------------------

P.S. I can't image what would posses someone
to build a Packard V8 Vega, .....but I'm sure glad
you did!

===============================

 

I knew someone could put their finger on that engine in the photo. I was aware of the "Sky Power" connection to the Stude GH, but did not think the exhaust manifolds were quite right.

I saw that at the Packard Proving Grounds in Shelby, Michigan. Great place to see a bit of Packard history.

You may be right about S-P. If the shoe had been on the other foot, perhaps things would have been different.

Maybe things would have been different too if Packard managment could see the potential cloud on the horizon for the straight eight. The Kettering Olds OHV was just that good. Other manufactuers were hot on the Olds trail, while Packard was a bit slow to respond. Thats too bad. Folks like RichFox has shown the potential of the Packard V-8.

Vintageride