History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Hey Dean, I just tripped across this older post. I knew Kurtis offerred the 1/4 elliptical rear in his price list and it sort of looks like it may have only been in conjunction with the 1/4 elliptical front. What do you know about that.?

Would I be correct in assuming that few were made and most of them were changed to cross torsion later in life?

Do you have any pictures showing the rear 1/4 spring mounting at the frame and/or connection to the rear axle?

My new restoration with 1/4 ellipticals is not a Kurtis but you can understand my interest.

 

Tried to bring in here the #58 post from 7/21/09 on the HAMB Millers at Milwaukee thread showing some great detail shots a guy took but can't do it, it's too big.

Took the car down in July to unwrap it after 6 years of resto even though it was not running. Got that done in August. The injection adapters and linkage were changed to version #3 with a jackshaft after that, pictured

 

From what dad said, the 1/4 elliptic thing didn't work. The car wouldn't follow a line on dirt through a corner. Front end felt like it wanted to go it's own way. Dad thought Frank stopped building chassis with 1/4 elilptic springs in the first 20 cars. Those that came back for rework, got cross spring front, and parallel bars on the rear. Frank never did cross bars on a midget. Those came from others who modified Kurtis frames after Frank sold the midget tooling to Johnny Paul.

 

During my visits with Ed Justice he told me at some point in time, Quinn Epperly was doing the cross torsion rears for Kurtis customers in his shop at home nights, just as George Shilala was doing with his pivoting spring perch set-up for the front for those that desired that.

My guess is that the fronts may have been the prime problem in the way they located the axle. Marchese and others were using 1/4's in the front in the '30's. Mine are rear only and radius rods and panhard bar are locating the axle. The spring end only bears on the axle housing so the car shouldn't know or care what kind of spring it is.

 

Jim, going to Zephyrhills? If so I'll try to look you up Friday or Saturday.

Blacki-Suede

 

Heres some worthwhile pics from downunder.
http://justmidgets.homestead.com/MartinBlayney.html

 

This is the Shanoian Benson Offy that was built in the GMB shops when I still worked there in the sixties. I took this picture summer 2008 at Anderson spdwy in Northen ca. Cars looks just as good now as when it was first built. And that family puts a ton of miles on it still.

 

San Jose
left pic 33 Gary Johnson 2 George Benson 26 Jan Opperman and Paul Jones
rt pic George asnd Vukie in dash line up.Geo was quick time again. Vukie in the former Stryker offy he sold to Bob Consani. Vukie won the main USAC show 2/19/67

 

it was built first in 1962 for the base chevy 2 nova only. no v8 head or exhaust manifold fit them.

this motor was really a 194 i6 cut down. the cross flow iron duke was a pontaic motor .

this thread is super long , but dose any of you all remember pappy houg hough from paterson new jersey .he had a midget powered by a home made v4,
the engine was a self built one ,in which he cut up a 283 v8 and made it run. or another he had with a 60 hp v8 in it for in door wood track raceing.

i'm asking as he was my mentor and teacher back in the early 60's. the man who helped me fab up my 36 poncho . i just wonder what happened to his cars when he passed away. i know his house in new foundland nj is now a custom built shed shop.

 

THE BEAUTY
Ollie Johnsons Benson Offy, George won Turkey night at Ascot in this Pavement car???
The other car pic was taken on the Ascot 1/4. We called it the little car,Kurtis about 67"wb
aXe

 

They made a V8 head fit it, First one I saw was in a Benson for A guy who had a wrecking yard up near Belmont whose name escapes Me

A guy out west Dempsey Wilson also had a cut in half V4 chevy. Carl Rogers bought it and took it up north ran indoors and also out doors with some success.
aXe

 

.....'aXe, 'The guy you're probably trying to think of is Bill Leonheart. He showed up for a USAC National Midget race at San Jose Speedway with with a Benson chassis and a Chevy V8 head adapted onto a 153 Chevy II. Immediately, Mel Kenyon complained to Shim Malone, West Coast Supervisor at the time and Bill was not allowed to run. Because, the cylinder head was not a production mate to the production block. That is how Ron Hoettels at SESCO got around that rule. Technically, all Hoettels used from the V8 were the cylinders and the lifter bores. He manufactured his own crank case, even used a Chevy II crankshaft and USAC let him slide on the rule??? What they did back then was plug all the head bolt holes in the block, center the V8 head above the cylinders and re-drill using heli-coils to re-secure the head to the block. Incidentally, Leonheart was extremely fast in warm ups that day. Also, I have a picture of Bill in the car but, it has a cage on it.

 

LF comes through again! I called him Buster Brown because His hair do was just like Buster Browns in the shoe commercial He lived in a shoe! Well for You youngsters just believe Me there wa a commercial with a little dutch boy? Funny hair do. Bowl straight edge all the way around.
That was a fast car it moved on to Ken Molica then Hank Sectrini I think.
aXe

 

I think Bills car was the first with a bolt on cage? His wife made Him add it on If I remember correctly.

 

Here is one for ya came on like a flash well on pavment He did. At ASCOT for warm ups He didnt do His home work went out with out tear offs only lasted a couple of laps came in put George in this car who finished the GP 2nd or 3rd?
He then went to El Cajon, Tied Vukie (inpicture) in the Schwitzer or Caruthers? car for quick time and raced Him hard in the main event to win His only USAC National main event.
aXe

 

'You'd more than likely have to be a west coaster at the time to remember the brief and whirlwind career of Nigel Paul Bates. Ordered a new Benson with a London Offy and won a National Championship race at El Cajon (CA) He was then 'invited' to the race at the Houston Astrodome and destroyed the car. 'Brought it home and then the car REALLY became famous. It was sold to and became the Sim Clark Chevy II for Bob DeJong, Gary Ponzini and Hank Butcher, among a few others.

 

This is the former Nigel Paul Bates Benson Offy that was wrecked at the Houston Astrodome in 1969 and then the chassis was sold to Sim Clark in Santa Clara (CA) Sim had Benson rebuild it and then installed the Chevy II. Benson's cars were always very recognizable by their very unique 'shark nose' look that incorporated a one-piece hood and nose. I recently had a very lengthy discussion with George Benson and he felt very honored and gratified that a few years later L.T. "Red" Caruthers copied and used this very design for all of his LTC VW midgets. George Benson, his cars with their parallel torsion bars in the front and cross torsion 'half bars' in the rear design and the great Burt Foland "owned" the old high banked San Jose Speedway..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................​

 

Someone on here that knows George Benson should get in touch with him and tell him about this Thread,etc.

He is a member of the Racing History at Yahoo group. He has discussed his midgets over there,but it has been awhile ago.

 

George at this time is in the last throws of his book, Stay tuned the cover
may look something like this, in that picture it looks like L to R Walt Bergholtz, Ollie Johnson, Jack London, ? unknown and Ted Mata and of Course George in the cockpit.
aXe

 

Love this thread! Keep the pictures coming.

 

The Bates car was mostly destroyed, The bent frame was in the back room at Sims on the cieling for years, The rebuild required a new frame. I never met another midget car owner that could get more from a car with less than Sim.
Paul didnt come out of that wreck in very good shape either, Pelvis and ribs boke.Then not to long after that in the Santa Cruz mtns took a 50's Cadillac Bullet in the drivers door and His racing carear continued down ward. Same kind of injuries again like in the Dome. A real shame that guy had more natural talent than a lot could learn in a life time.
Picture below is Paul clearing the Dome Crash wall, NOT He wished He had cleared it. This took place during Warm ups!!!

aXe

 

...'It's too bad these pics are in black&white because not only was it a brilliant and beautifully colored car in person but, it had one of the most incredible winning percentages any race car ever had. This was the famous Jack London Offy driven by Burt Foland and Tommy Astone, Jr. It was a George Benson chassis with a Jack Hageman all aluminum body. After Jack London sold the car to Floyd Alvis out in Northern California, it changed hands a few times until now. And now it is finally back in the hands of the legendary Foland..............................................................

 

Paul
Didnt get a new London Offy right out of the box, George had some offy stuff and threw together a good used engine for Paul. It had good Delong cams and that was the best part of it. It didnt have the good stroker crank or any of the updated stuff at the time it was built. when Paul won at El Cajon He came under the eyes of Roy Winkleman,Of the Winkleman Wide angle Mirror fame. He told Paul you need all the good stuff??? Stroker crank, better cams the whole nine yards?
I told Paul when You beat Vukovich You beat one of if not the the best midgets in the country, Take Winklemans money and go with what you got! Well He took the money to Jack and then had all the good stuff. I remember first race out at San Jose with that stuff, He and Jack had fresh all new stuff and Paul talked Jack into running I think it was Valvoline oils? Well about the same lap in the main event first Paul the Foland pulled in with BOILING oil and no bearing surfaces left in those engines! I guess Jack saw how good Paul was because He didnt even ruffel any of His feathers about it?
I think Pauls car with engine was one of if not the best priced cars to come out of that GMB shop.
aXe

 

Hope the pics show on this, if not, go back to the original post. I heard (and I forget where) that Benson ran carbs on his Offy (they look like Webers in the pic). I was told the the carbs allowed the Offy power to come on smoothly rather that instantly like the Hilborns, and thus put more power to the ground. Perhaps aXe can add more.

Great thread!
Sean

 

'Sean, 'You're right, Ollie Johnson and George Benson did in fact run Weber carburetors on the Offy engine. Even more evident is when they switched to the Hilborns, you can see the side panels still cut out for the carbs in some pics. George told me just a few months ago that the Webers were perfect for the short tracks but, on the longer tracks like Ascot Park, they couldn't deliver the volume of fuel adequately. Two years in a row at the Turkey Night Grand Prix, when they were in contention for the win, they burned pistons. Thus, when they went back down in 1969 with the Hilborns, George won the race. I'd like aXe to weigh in because he was right there first hand.

 

I will say this about those Webers, Parnelli Jones drove the little car with them and when He won a main event at ASCOT, He said You better check them they had a little hestitation and the throttle was sticking!
When Ollie and George opened them up just about every moving part in them was broken!
I think Vince Conze as sharp as He was spotted the Benson built manifold for those webers and next thing You know Parnelli Jones had thier injectors jacked up allmost level like those carbs? With a good increas in HP! Then in no time it was the rage to have it on all the 110 offies.This is just My opinion. George seems to have stumbled on a good flowing system ? Nothing was ever said in My presence about it though.
They did require about 3 times the maintenance of the injectors, Always looking for sunk floats and such. insted of one pill to change like the injectores there were 4 on the carbs.
aXe

 

pappy hough talked about wood indoor tracks a lot. i still can't figure out how these guys got the cut off v8's to run the way they did. they didn't have any real way of furnace brazing the parts together the way that company in the mid west dose now.

also thanks for the heads up on how they made a v8 head work on a 153. man thats a lot of work. welding up every thread hole and drilling new ones. ouch. again thanks for the heads up and i stand corrected

 

I only got a few peaks at the Rogers V4, It seems they had a plate steel or aluminum maybe replacing the cast block where it was cut off. It looked to be bolted to the cast iron some how.?
I didnt get much of a look at it.
I dont remember any welds on that plate?
They must have had some real good glue to seal the water jackets?
There were pictures of this car and engine in Hot Rod magazine about 1961, it was in an Oakland indoors feature article.
aXe

 

A couple months back I recieved an e-mail from George, like most of us as we age We get more forgetful and We all dont see things in the same light. You tell one person a story and let Him tell one more person and so on until you have at least 10 and then ask each what they were told, odds are the last one got an almost completley differint story than what it started out as.
Any way George who forgot about those melting piston problems cause at least 2 years in a row. They never got past warm ups on those occasions.
I Reminded Him about the under seat tank He built, There wasnt enough fuel flow from the main tank to keep small tank and those carbs full of fuel. I think they used a Hilborn pump and it sucked that small tank almost dry right away. They needed a bigger connection from tha main tank to the auxiliary tank or at least a way to push fuel faster to the spare tank. One or two laps with those carbs starving they melted those pistons completly through. There was also another problem, All were happening on the half. You have to remember He did get a 3rd or 4th Turkey night with those carbs one year I think? Running out of fuel near then end. I am pretty sure they ran them at Phoenix on the mile one year also?
His luck changed big time when Aggie dropped the laps from 150 to 100 lap. He did in fact win that first 100 lapper. I always thought with the problems of those webers sinking Floats(Big time richness problem then) and other problems, If they would have had stryfoam or some other kind of unsinkable floats He probably would have won at least 3 Turkey night shows?? JMHO
aXe

 

I'll weigh in on the V8 head on the Chevy II. I've got a friend who has one, and they did it by putting a 3/8 plate on top of the block and fastening it with counter sunk bolts. Then the top was milled and re-tapped with the V8 bolt pattern. Worked great, but at the time they were running against the Gaerte's and such, a pretty big weight penalty. The engine now is in a roadster midget built in the late 70s. The neat thing about Chevy's in those days: The V8's, I-6s and the Chevy II all shared the same rods, pistons, and valve train. The Chevy II was just an I-6 with two less cylinders.

Sean