History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

That box is virtually identical to a Halibrand with the exception of the shape of the top opening for the shifter lever and some difference in ribbing.

The box was made to run with a quick change rear although sometimes I would believe, perhaps just a 4.86 ring and pinion with no gear change ability front or rear would have been used by some.

Since the box is complete externally, it certainly would look good and be appropriate, with or without a quick change. An extremely high percentage of the people who will ever view your car don't know the difference anyway. So you are the only one you need to satisfy.

Complete ones do show up on e-bay on occasion, in fact Item number: 160687377674 a Halibrand with a torque ball and collar sold on November 29th and Item number: 400259687027 a Offy one with a multiple disc clutc sold on December 2nd. You can search e-bay and still see those listings and photos.

 

thanks for the info guys, I just want to put a box that would have been used in the car, even if it is just for show!

Paul

 

since we are on the subject, here is a in & out box that sold here on the hamb for a flathead. It looks like with this version you use a clutch with it, rather then bolting the input shaft directly to the crank. what would this set up be used for?
Paul

 

Exactly.

Sprint car or midget

clutch and flywheel

with or without quick change rear.

 

anyone from the PA/MD/NJ area going to the motorsports show in Oaks PA this coming weekend? I go to look through all the old race car pic's as well as to view the vintage race cars they usually have there on display. I think one of the old timers clubs from NJ sets up the booth?

Paul

 

I raced with one of these as late as 1992,behind a Gaerte' 406 in a winged car!I still have it and a longer version as well!

 

I believe there are a couple old timer groups thathave spots - one being the Atlantic Coast Old Timers (ACOT). They are usually all bunched together.

 

Flemington Speedway Historical Society will have a display, as always. But be forewarned, they have been placed out back behind the Vendor (Die Cast, NASCAR Apparel) area. ACOT may be back there too.

 

Found my Pappy Hough made gear change set up. He manufactured them . It is the only one I ever saw, Pappy had half a casting and told me he broauched the gears in his shop.
Has anyone else ever seen one?

 

1940's Midget Race Car
This car was built by Roy Richter.
Roy is the founder of Bell Auto Parts.
Also, he was the founder of Crager Wheel Company and the Bell Helmet company.
The Midget is powered by a Ford Flathead V8 60.

 

Ok I have 2 more box's I need I.D.'d. one looks like a very well used ambler even though there is no markings on the box? I can't seem to figure out if it is a I/O or a quick change set up?
the second is an ARC set up but I do not think it is an I/O but rather a clutched direct drive set up? Any idea's on when it was used (era etc) and application, it has a ford bell pattern on the back?

Paul

 

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Although your box is older than me, I will add my experience. <o></o>
The Ambler type box is what would have been correct for your build. It would need a direct shaft of the Crankshaft to drive the six spline planetary gear. The 4 slotted holes would attach it to a engine plate and the box would move up or down to engage the planetary to the sun gear. The gear ratio would be changed by a different size or tooth count on planetary gear.<o></o>
As for the ARC Boxes they were made much later. Late 60&#8217;s?
ARC was the continuation of CAE. I don&#8217;t know when the first CAE boxes were produced. Just a guess but early 60,s ? Both the clutch style and the compact I/O Box were common in Sprint Cars and Super Modified. They could be adapted for a Midget.
I hope this helps !<o></o>

 

That is one beautiful midget. You say it is a Roy Richter midget, do you have any history? The reason I ask is I am very close to Art Bagnall who is a good friend of mine and I would like to share this car with him. Art spent most of his life with Roy and worked for him after the war. Before the war Art hung around the Bell shop and watched Roy build race cars, this was before he purchased Bell Auto from George Wright in July of 1945. After the war in 1945 Roy and Eddie Kuzma built 4 more midgets that are known as Richter/Kuzma midgets. Two had V8-60&#8217;s and the other two had Offys. The tail on this midget appears to be around 1939 but the hood is post war. I also have a lot of information regarding Roy Richter&#8217;s cars that Art has shared with me over the years and I have in my collection. I can tell you this, if it is a Richter Midget it is very rare as Roy looked for one of his midgets for several years in the early 80&#8217;s to restore. He ended up purchasing a Myron Stevens unfinished midget that Myron had in his garage. Unfortunately he passed away before he could complete the restoration. After his death Don Kischell and Bob Hanson finished the restoration in 1986 for the Richter family. Roy Richter built some of the finest race cars ever put on a race track.

 

Stan...Thanks for finding and posting the picture. No I have never seen one either.

I hope it was built sturdily or it might have been the racers cure for hemorrhoids

A little O/T but I seem to remember the English Laycock de Normanville hydraulic overdrive unit being retrofitted to Model A Ford torque tubes in a like fashion.

 

Yes, the box pictured is certainly very well used. It is not like any Ambler I have seen. It is both an in/out and a change box in one housing. The shaft is missing or not pictured, the shift fork may be inside the box, and the sliding gear with shifter fork groove is pictured amongst the change gears. The gear that is pictured in the box is the blocker gear fitting inside the internal gear, both with the same number of teeth, thus a straight thru box in this case, no reduction.


The big bell box pictured could use a clutch as an in/out device requiring a flywheel, it would allow a more rearward placement of the engine than the previous picture you posted of the CAE box with both the clutch and in/out box section.

That CAE box could have been used with starter and clutch allowing the car to be self started and the in/out acting as a single speed gearbox. Clutch operation was commonly a long hand lever on the left hand outside of the body.


To me, drivelines can be the hardest part of restoring or building a car. In your case using the stock Model A rear end would best suggest one of the combination in/out change boxes and given those two elements, determine what u-joint is required and then modify the drive shaft and torque tube as needed to complete the driveline.


In the case of my current car, I started with a very unique F. Davis Engineering Quick Change Rear section that had a hermorphidite lower shaft that was also the drive shaft (no coupler). Then I opted for a Halibrand in/out box because I wanted a true dog clutch for engagement, somewhat like the dog box Zach pictured previously and was identified by duece354 as a Progressive, rather than the more commonly used transmission hubs and sliding couplers that have a tendency to not want to stay engaged when wear and/or misalignment occurs.


Given those two units my u-joint had to be assembled from a 6 spline yoke on one side of a special cross and a 10 spline yoke on the other. The 10 spline yoke was from the the nose of a Chrysler 8 1/2" differential if I remember correctly. Then that yoke had to be turned in a lathe to remove a significant amount of material to enable it to fit inside the torqueball!

And worse yet, the lower shaft/driveshaft had to be shortened slighly on the quick change end, to preserve the spline on the u-joint end, which shifted the points at which the ball bearings located to a slightly necked down portion of that shaft requiring a metal spraying operation to build the shaft diameter up for finish grinding!

Don't let any of the above discourage you. Your situation should be fairly straight forward.

 

I believe this might be a photo of a Kuzma/Richter owned by Harry Meyer. I believe the driver is "Corky" Benson, the year is 1947 and the track appears to be Gilmore.

 

Woodland midget roadster is moving right along, the body is in paint now

 

Thanks Stan, have heard of them for 25 years, and never saw a photo...(I had heard of them for use in stock cars, woder if that's the same thing?)

 

I recently found a 1973 CAE catalog and the clutch drive you have pictured is shown. It was intended for drag racing usage according to CAE and had an adapter for an open driveshaft. I can't see the bolt pattern of the adapter very clearly but it looks like a " champ" u-joint housing might be a direct bolt-up, giving the configuration you pictured. For what it's worth, the CAE part number was either 216 or 217 depending on clutch disc configuration.

 

Pappy told me that he made a lot for stock cars, but this one has smaller and shorter torque tubes. The pinion on this one fits an A rear. The stockcars mostly used V8 rears.

 

I am looking at two of the Richter / Kuzma midgets. One is the Casale car driven by Gib Lilly with a V8-60 and the other is Wes Beck Offy that was driven by Len Sutton. These two midgets are the same as far as the body design. The only difference is the side panels on the flathead are bubbled out. The picture of the midget you show appears to have a different nose, hood and tail. The nose is longer with a short hood and the tail has a shorter head rest height. If that is the 58 car it was owned by Eddie Meyer and you are right about the driver it is Corky Benson. I will see if I have any pictures in my collection or I will try and scan the pictures from my book.

 

As of now, and thanks to the following people: John DaDalt, Jerry Santibanes, Gordon White, Stephen Bubb, Jim Chini, Tom Motter, Ed Hitze, Keith Herbst and about 20 other historians, I&#8217;ve been fortunate to get some midget racing results for quite a few tracks here in the northeast, and also some win records of various drivers, with the possibility of getting even more of both. A good portion of the names above were mentioned to me by Jerry Santibanes.
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For the drivers, I now have lists of wins for:
Charlie Miller, Ed &#8220;Dutch&#8221; Schaefer, George Rice, Johnny Ritter, George Fonder, Bill Holmes, Wes Saegesser, Ronney Householder, Len Duncan, Ted Tappett, Johnny Coy, Bill Schindler, Duane Carter, Henry Banks, Mel Kenyon, Sleepy Tripp and Nick Fornoro. Also, George Rice &#8220;Big car&#8221; results for 1934 & 35.
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If interested in any, please e-mail me at: ygordad@yahoo.com and I&#8217;ll send them via attachments in a response back to you.
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Here is a photo of a Progressive in/out on the front of the rear. It has the shifting linkage installedon torque tube. It is in one of my Hillegass`, it is the last midget he made.

 

I also have race results for quite a few of the tracks, from the '30's to the 50's, mostly top three finishers, but list is too long to post here. e-mail me for the list.
Tracks like: Cherry Park, Hinchliffe Stadium, Kingsbridge Armory, Danbury, etc etc.

 

The car number is 66. In Jack fox's 1947 AAA records it is identified as a light blue Kuzma Offy owned by Harry Meyer.

 

My son and I are going. We are dropping off two midget race cars at the ACOT booth today and we'll be there all day Saturday and Sunday.
I will be looking forward to discuss the in out box for the race car that you are restoring. See you there

 

I have a couple of programs from LA Coliseum July 1 1947 and Carrell Speedway July 6 1947. A lot of the owners and drivers changed cars like changing cloths in those days. I am sure that you are right regarding that picture and I do have the upmost respect Jack Fox I also have his book. “The Mighty Midgets”. But in reading many books and doing lots of research I have found many errors along the way. That said, I will post some photos of the Richter/Kuzma midgets and maybe we can determine if it is correct.

 

If this is the Harry Meyer I am thinking of he would be the brother of Louie Meyer and uncle of Eddie “Bud” Meyer Jr. and they were related. That may be why the drivers would change cars. Attached is a photo of a Richter car that was built around 1940. I hope you can see these or blow them up. I am no good at placing photos at this site.

 

I will definetly stop by and chat, I was hoping there would be a few midgets there with I/O's installed so I can see close up what I need to do & how much room I need?

Paul

 

The information contained in the Official Entries agrees with the information I posted, so what is the problem?