Vintage Engine Masters Challenge?

Wow!

Lots of cool ideas... I like the thought of points awarded for highest average TQ & HP; how about scoring twice; once for gross numbers, and once for 'per displacement' numbers?

Although I think the idea of averaging everyone across a set RPM range is pretty cool, I think it really penalizes the small engines (read: chevy) that could wing up to 8K. You see where I'm going with this - another set of scores added for peak power/torque regardless of RPM. Can ya' tell I dug math in school?

And I really like the idea of keeping the speed equip to same vintage as motors; great call. Maybe another 'blanket' rule: aftermarket heads permitted for flatheads only.

Regardless of how this were to shake out, I'd be sure to buy the magazine to see this!

 

The pistons I can maybe see, but all Nailhead rods are forged as are the cranks. I haven't always used the stock rods as have many of the Nailhead guys. Usually they check out fine and aren't expensive to fix if they don't...

I'll have stock rods and crank in my 364 for sure... Most likely will run the stock pistons as well.... I'm ready to start building it as I have another 425 to build for my roadster as well...

 

Cool Thread!

I think this would be one big bunch of fun . . . but as some have said, without a bunch of organization (hate to say it rules ) and probably some sponsorship of some sort, would be hard to pull off. Just the dyno time alone would be lots of $$$.

With that said, if this thing gets going, I might want to build a 392 Hemi to put to the test (just found a couple STD bore A-1 blocks . . . just what the doctor ordered!).

As somebody who believes in taking early engines and putting good technology into them, I believe we should consider allowing people to experiment within reason:

a) Basics: I'd limit to original block, crankshaft and heads. The minute you go beyond this, it REALLY starts pitting the guys with big bucks against those that don't have the dough.

b) Rods: Heck, if a guy wants to put late rods in the engine to protect his investment and vintage block, more power to him. I'm all for the preservation of these original engines . . . throwing a rod is just not cool! I can tell yah, there is no way in heck I'd risk losing a virgin and rare block with a set of old and inferior rods.

c) Main Caps or Supports: Same deal as above - let us put 4-bolt main caps and/or stud girdles . . . they had these in the 50's and if it helps preserve some early engines and cranks, lets consider it.

d) Porting: I say lets allow it . . . as hot-rodders have been grinding and ****ing in cast iron and aluminum dust as long as there have been drills, Dumores, etc.. This lets people really put some flow skills to a test.

e) Cams, Valves, Springs, etc: Do whatever you like . . . as there have been some real advances in cam technology, valve technology, springs, etc.. Let us use our modern technology to wring whatever HP we can.

f) Cranks and Strokers: There would have to be cl***es based on cubic inches (or something) -- as some guys will stroke the **** out of their cranks and the cubic inches they'd gain would give them a huge advantage over a stock stroke engine. Also - by not caring about HOW you achieved your cubes . . . gives us some flexibility to decide what poison we want to drink?

g) Blowers and Injectors: I love em both . . . but we'd have to have specific cl***es to segregate them out. Yes, we could say carbs only, but wouldn't it be fun to see some vintage blowers, mechanical injectors, etc? Maybe limit these systems to what was available in day --- i.e, no 14-71 blowers!


Suggestion: We could take a look at some of the rules and cl***es at Bonneville . . . as they've had to deal with ALL these issues and have found some fairly good ways to make it fun and compe***ive.

Just some thoughts . . . on a cold winter day (8 degrees f ), it's good to ponder some fun things!

Dale

 

I think it's a great idea but I'd be impressed if anyone could pull it off...especailly by agreeing on one set of rules. Then there is the geography and the fact that rules will almost dictate a purpose built engine specifically for this endeavor.

Maybe it would just be easier to have a dyno at or near the HAMB drags next year and figure out some kind of ability for comparison between now and then? There won't be any way to gauge internals at that point but so what? At least we can get an idea of what engines are making what power AND how well those engines and cars can do at the strip. Just a thought.

 

I think Bored&Stroked and I are thinking along the same lines. However, it is looking like there'd be so many cl***es that we'd be better off running a "Vintage _____ Masters Challenge" starting with teens and twenties 4-bangers and working our way up through the early-muscle motors (Mopar Wedge, 389, FE, 409, etc). We could do an annual every year with help from Popular Hot Rodding, or somebody.

Also, maybe it would be cheaper to get a T-modified with quick-release engine mounts and a bunch of transmission adapters to a TH-350 or Muncie (thinking availablity, everybody makes a ____-to-Chevy adaptor) as our test bed, rather than a dyno. That way it actually makes driveability a factor. Winning engine has to drive from the shop to the testing site, and driving impressions and other subjectives are recorded along with MPG. Limiting factory could be to ****py California premium gasoline, too. We get 92 Octane here, what do you guys get out west, about 60?

Frankly, I would hate to see this become a "build a collection of antique speed parts" or "build an unstreetable race motor" contest. I would like to see something real world. I think we've got a lot of good suggestions here, though. Creative machine work and careful ***embly are my favorite ways to see a motor played with.

 

You all missed a few other "cl***ics"

1957 374 Packard, idled so smooth you didnt know it was running, imagine it with a cam, carbs and some head work. Up to 310 ponies out of the box.

Rambler 327 Probably the most underveloped V8 of them all. 270 HP in Gramps Amb***ador.

And how did everyone miss the Studebaker 289?

 

I think I may allready be a parsipent of this.I drag race my car.

 

I don't remember how I got to this thread, but did anything ever happen? I think this would be cool, and to hell with fairness, just ban 392 hemis and sb chevys, we all know how they run. I remember seing a 374 Packard in an early rail and a lot of early guys loved Stude v8's and Cad's, and don't forget the success of the flathead six Hudson in early 50's racing.
Yea, I'm building a blown 383 sbc for my rod because it's cost effective but I love the old stuff and I agree that a magazine series like this would sell - tell me where to buy it.

 

Would it make it more interesting to put a spending limit on the challenge also. A guy with enough money can build to the hilt. I agree with bigcheese327 build some real world mills. I'd love to see how my blown 283 would do.

 

I couldnt afford this years challenge (mostly stock for those who aren't aware) Let alone Build the nailhead of my dreams! (Thast's a stroked 364 for those interested, with injection.)
Although I know a guy who could build a WICKED SICK 427 BBC that used to eat the Hemi's for lunch....