Hot Rods Want To Buy A MIG & Separate TIG Welder..Need Suggestions

A few friends of mine (Jerry Weeks Baker for example) have been oxy welding aluminum for decades, and I've welded a couple of feet of alum with a torch and know what you mean when you say it pops a big hole and drops on the floor. But, a few more hours with the right lenses will put me on my way. Any time I get a passion for something it's fun to get in and pay your dues, feeling of accomplishment is great.

 

There are supposedly a few Chinese machines that have gotten good ratings. They probably weld decently, but if/when you have a problem, you usually have to ship it to Kalifornia or wherever to get it repaired, and you pay the shipping. Everlast had a pretty good rep for a while, but lately I have heard that they have had problems and the shipping for repairs is an issue.
The thing about purchasing a machine is that there are many things that manufacturers do to get the prices down, and they aren't apparent to a new welder/buyer. Components get downsized. Cords are shorter. Torches aren't quite as well made. Drive rollers are smaller and wear out. Controls aren't the same. As an example, some quality welders have infinitely adjustable settings while others just have predetermined (click) settings. Obviously, an infinitely adjustable id more desirable. Quality of the internal components is usually less on cheaper machines because the big boys know theirs have to meet industrial conditions.

If you have the money, I would recommend a Miller Dynasty. Thats what I have and I sold a Lincoln 185 to buy it. No complaints about the Lincoln, but I wanted a Miller and I have been happy with it.
After you get the machine, you WILL find that you need a water cooled torch for it. I made my own water cooler for mine. The torch WILL get hot in your hand if you don't get a water cooling set up. This is especially true if you weld aluminum which takes a lot of amps.
For a Mig, I had a Miller 251 that got stolen, so I upgraded to a 350P which is far more welder than I actually need. I would recommend a Miller 212 which comes with its own cart to set your bottle on. Buy something smaller and you have to get a cart for the bottle. They have an auto-set feature where you just select the wire size and metal thickness and it sets the amp and wire speed for you. You can also use it with your own settings. My son has one of these and its excellent.
I bought all my welders from IOC (Indiana Oxygen Co) on Ebay and they ship them to your door. Good prices.

Bottles: New ones look pretty. Best is to buy used ones and take them to the supplier and have them recertified. Costs about $40. Most old used bottles are out of cert, so you can tell the seller that and get the price down. Get a bill of sale just in case. The really large industrial bottles are often hard to get filled because the companies say its illegal to fill a different companies bottles. Probably better to buy the (largest) smaller bottle as they usually don't give you any problems. Probably 80 or 122 cu ft. Argon for Tig and 75/25 for Mig. Some bottles can be purged and converted to other gasses.




Another thing to consider is that your Miller will retain its value. I can sell my Dynasty 200 for pretty much what I paid for it appx 8 yrs ago. My sons 212 cost $1700 8 years ago and today a new one is about $2200......so he can get most/all his money back. Its an investment as well as a purchase.

 

Don't buy something too old. I bought a Hobart mig used in the early 80s and it's been a great welder, however, recently I've had to have it serviced and the repair man wanted to know the symptoms because some stuff not available . I just bought a Miller 211 mig ; it's pretty slick. The new features are really nice. It's not cheap.

 

I really liked my AHP alpha tig. Everything was great until I plugged it into a 110 volt converter cord. Great for the little stuff. Got into welding chassis parts and bought a Lincoln 275 from the roadster shop. They were switching to Miller and could only get a deal if they removed every Lincoln machine on the premises. Mig started with a Hobart, its great for the flux cored wire that nobody likes. Went to a smaller lincoln for body panels that has a better flow with the gas for shielded steel rod. So far any all in one machine I ever bought is just good for one thing.

 

I bought my Hobart 190 on the Hobart factory refurbished website. Showed up like a brand new welder and works as it should. It even had a warranty, even though it was shorter than a new one. Saved a few hundred bucks.

 

I'm still using my old 70's Hobart 300 amp Cyber-Tig machine but having a hard time moving it around now not as young as use to be even though it is on a caster rack.But it still works and if I need something to repair it they say now parts for that old.Most people in weld supply have never heard of that machine

 

I am also using a Hobart MIG welder. I Personally found the flux core wire close to useless, getting a gas tank is almost a must for anything a tad more demanding work. 110V - 220V option is great, for my use I went directly into shield gas and 220V but for light work, 110V could likely work nice. Used to weld big excavator bucket lips with a really powerful MIG, would not use this for that but something like patio stairs, fences etc. no problem for this

 

I always say the same thing about my machines so I won't bother. But I will say, again, if you have a commercial repair center see if they have a rebuilt commercial machine. A recon rental, something never picked up, massive deals sometimes. DON'T BUY AT AUCTIONS. Folks pay nearly retail for machines they know nothing about. Yes, I too am a Miller fan but spent years with the pedal of a Lincoln underfoot and it never failed to do stellar work. Too long ago to recall the model but it was big, too big for a home shop IMO. The advice of power available is sound. Last, I have a cute little 110 Miller MIG. While a little low on duty cycle that thing will perform admirably when needed. Dialed up to 2 with .030 and the right wire setting it'll weld a whole 12pt mild steel cage in a racer that I'd defy anyone to find flaw or error with. Will it weld 1/4 steel all day in a commercial shop? No, but in the right hands I find it hard to beat and it's as handy as a shirt pocket for sheetmetal. MIG and sheetmetal, EZ-grind is worth the money and doesn't crack when you metal finish like std wire. Thats all I got.

 

Here are a few more things to consider.

Generally Hobarts are a good machine. They are made by Miller and contain a lot of similar parts. The thing is......they are NOT identical. An example of this is the control for amp settings (on Mig) which is very important when you try to weld thin sheetmetal. The Hobart has a "stepped adjustment" knob whereas the similar looking Miller has an "infinite" adjusting knob. These little things (and there are other "slightly different" features) are how they get the costs down. They are fine for most stuff, but when you get into the finer details of fabricating, they can make a difference.
Myself, I have a Miller 350P (pulse) Mig after my 251 was stolen. Its really more machine than I need for Mig but I thought the pulse feature would be nice for the thin stuff. Well, when you Mig thin stuff, you also need to change your wire/tip/liner/rollers and wire to .023 wire. Too much trouble for lazy old me. So I bought an ESAB which has a decent rep. Got one from a dealer that was used once and returned. Got a good deal and bought it. Lasted about 5 minutes. Contacted ESAB and they immediately sent a repacement at their cost. Been working good.............BUT it does have smaller cables and clamps and reduced size components........BUT, thats perfect for what I want it for.........thin sheetmetal. When welding sheetmetal I seldom run a long bead. More like a series of tack welds to let heat disipate. My son has a Miller 212. Nice size machine with auto set that makes welding much easier. With Mig its usually about getting the settings not quite right and then thinking you are doing it wrong. It will do anything you need to do for the project you want to do aas far as Mig is concerned.
Moving to Tig. Not all Tig machines will weld aluminum, so make sure you get one that does aluminum. You WILL want water cooling as air cooled torches become very hot when welding , are generally larger and harder to manipulate. Older machines are great but they are old and most have been used in industrial environments. If they quit, repairs will be expensive or you lose your investment if parts are no longer available. The old machines also do not have a pulse feature which allows the metal you are welding to cool somewhat as you weld. There are lots of things that you will become aware of as you improve your skills. Most likely a Tig with 200/250 amp capacity should fulfill all your welding needs. You can put some serious money into these machines, so I would think about not over buying (amp wise). The best thing is to take those welding classes and get familiar with what you are using. Then make your decision on what machine will suit your needs. Also notice what type of machines the pros use.............
Cheaper machines often weld well, the question always is "for how long".

One other thing: If you go to some of the big hot rod events, they often have vendors there demonstrating their welders and offering discount sale prices.

 

30 years ago I sold a chopped and slammed mini truck and bought a New Miller Syncrowave 250 it has served me well.

At work we have Esab MIG and a Esab TIG also, we have had many problems with them, both have had boards replaced, BUT I work with a bunch of MONKEYS, who knows how the units have been treated.

My dad has a Hobart that has worked hard for him.
He also bought a small Lincoln TIG without High Freq (why would someone do that) He never warmed up to the unit and never uses it.

Look for duty cycle times. Some larger units will weld at lower amps than small one will.

 

When I was in search of a 110 mig, I already had a Miller SD 180 tig, I asked the welding Instructor at the prison where I taught auto mechanics. His suggestion at the time was a Lincoln SP 135 mig welder I asked him why a Lincoln instead of a Miller like his 220 units. He had an interesting reply. He said " I have 6 of them operating 6 hours a day by inmates, and they can't break them!". Having dealt with inmates for 15 years myself and seen first hand that some of them had the unique ability to break an anvil with a rubber mallet, I bought one for my personal use and never looked back. A great unit for lighted work and because it's 110 can go just about anywhere . I have owned it over 10 years, had friends that could rival inmates in lack of ability and had zero problems of any kind.

 

BTW primeweld come with a 3 yr warranty, they also pay shipping both ways and on several boards people have stated that the very few that have had problems primeweld has shipped on the very same day as the phone call was made. So a replacement was shipped before the customers unit was even in a box for return.

The new units come with ck heads and good foot pedals.

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I wish I had a mig in my shop but my TIG is an Everlast power tig 201 and it's been excellent. Before this I had the Eastwood Tig and that thing broke soany times in 2 years they gave me 100% refund and I bought this. It was a little more money so I couldn't afford the AC version at the time so I can't weld aluminum but I've built many motorcycle frames and handlebars with it and lots of arc welding on derby cars.

 

I've been very pleased with my Hobart Handler 130 MIG and Lincoln Square Wave 200 TIG. I bought both new for less than $2000 total. Covers all my automotive needs as a hobbyist.

 

If I was buying a new welding machine I would probably buy a particular model from ESAB because it’s a machine that does it all, Stick, mig, Tig AC and DC too.
And I presently have a Miller mig and a Miller Tig.

I’ve tried the ESAB Rebel EMP 205 ic and I was impressed with it.

This is ESAB information:
We made the impossible possible with the first-ever portable, all-process machine, complete with MIG, Flux-Cored, Stick, DC TIG, DC Pulse TIG, and now AC TIG capabilities, which means – yes – it TIG welds aluminum. It's a TRUE all-in-one welding system that delivers best-in-class performance in each process in the most portable, durable, go anywhere, weld anything industrial package on the market today.

 

I thought about a all in one machine but I didn't like the idea if one broke down then chances were high none of it would work.

With separate machines if one breaks done I can use the other. Also didn't like the idea of changing gas bottles back and forth incase of might welding steel one day and tig welding aluminum the next.

Just a preference for me is all.

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The Esab has multiple gas ports on the rear and will automatically switch to the correct gas when you switch processes.
All you have to do is turn the cylinder valves on or off and set the flow level.
You will only need 2 bottles for the vast majority of what you will be doing, a 75-25 CO2 -Argon mix for wire feed and Pure Argon for TIG.
A bottle and machine cart that holds 2 bottles and the machine is an easy solution there are also carts that in addition to holding the machine and gas bottles will also have a cabinet and or a series of drawers for all the extra stuff you need for the setup.

 

Everyone has different reasons and opinions for their choices. Personally I have never cared for machines (not just welders) that are designed to do multiple things. Not saying they are bad, but usually changing the set up is time consuming, and if they fail you have lost all of your ability to work. Probably just the Neanderthal in me, but I like having my machines usually close to the set up I normally use when I turn them on rather than switching stuff (settings) all the time. As I mentioned earlier, I have two Mig machines simply so I can leave one set up for .023 wire without having to switch out the liner,tip, spool,and rollers just to do sheetmetal. With some of the smaller machines you can't use the big (more economical) spools. Everything is a trade-off of some kind............

My apologies to any Neanderthals I may have offended