I changed my waster pump the other day on the 351W that my 54 Customline has in it, and three of the stud bolts didn't fit right in the new water pump. The engine is a 1984 and it seems to be a frankenstien. Two of the bolts that fit on the top of the water pump are a bout 1/8 in too long now and one of the holes on the p***enger side is now too long for any of the bolts to hit the threads. I have the idea of cutting the two bolts down the 1/8 in and buying a longer bolt stud that will fit the other hole. My question is, will this be a large affect on the sealant that I used between the water pump seal, water pump, and block? Also on a different subject, I'm in San Diego and I need to get new hood hinges so that the stupid thing stops digging into my p***enger side fender. Does anyone have any ideas where I can get the hinges for a 54 Customline?
I hope you still have your old water pump. The problem you are having stems back to accepting the wrong pump from the auto parts store. We talked about that a while ago. This problem won't go away using band-aids, it will only be overcome by finding, buying and installing the right part. There are several threads on this social group regarding hood hinges. There's at least one place you can have yours rebuilt and reinforced...but it isn't cheap. But then, what is these days...? Good luck.
I do remember talking about this but I did take the water pump back and they checked it out against the year model and the part nubmer. The guy told me that everything was correct. I even had the original water pump there with the new one so I thought the guy knew what he was talking about. Now that I've sileconed this thing on am I just out of the money since the gastket will be torn up when I take it off or is there a possibility that Autozone will take something likethat back? Hmmm.... I'm going with I'm out the money that I spent on it but maybe its worth a shot. I will check out the threads about the hinges, and thanks for the help.
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought the one you ended up buying was somewhat different than the one you took off. Physically different, with extra holes or something. If so, you've learned a valuable lesson about working on cars. Several lessons, actually, so perhaps you can amortize the money you're out over the number of lessons you've learned: First lesson: Don't ever ***ume the guy at the counter knows what he's talking about. He was probably a pizza delivery guy last week. Second lesson: Don't turn in the old part for core credit until the new part is installed and working properly. Third lesson: The information in the computer at the parts store is just as easily wrong as right. Do not ever ***ume the computer knows what it is talking about, either. Fourth lesson: The slicker the store the less it can be depended upon to furnish the right part the first time. Fifth lesson: Beware of cross-references and superceded part numbers. These are very often wrong in one way or another. Never depend upon them without a side-by-side physical comparison. Finally: Seek out the oldest, grumpiest parts guy in the oldest, scroungiest parts store you can find. Do business with him, even if his prices are higher. If he still uses books instead of a computer, you've definately come to the right place for your old car parts. Just ask me how I know this...
I guess you've had this lesson a time or two since you are quite aware of all the downfalls. How do you know all this? Are you the grumpy guy still using books?
The guy you want to contact for hood hinges is Rowland Hall Services located at 1901 Jackson St. Burbank,Ca 91504 (818) 345-3574 Tell Him the guys at 1954ford.com and our social group sent you.He does amazing work and will beef them up so they are better than original equipment,it's best to send in your cores for exchange you can arrange that over the phone.
Nope, I'm the guy who knows the grumpy guy who still uses books...and am greatful every day that he is the way he is. I'm also the guy who has made just about every mistake there is to make...at least once...and tried to learn something from each and every one! There is no subs***ute for experience...even bad experience. Welcome to the club.
My 302 is a 1984 the last of the flat tappet cam motors)351W share the same pumps),there are some weird things done by Ford that year they had two water pumps available one was cast iron one was aluminum(that is why there are weird bolt lengths) also a lot of people ***ume that if you have a serpentine drive it is reverse flow,NOT! 1979 1/2 thru 1984 are conventional flow pumps.If you are not using the A/C or power steering mount studs don't re-use them,the factory ones break EZ I just measured for the correct length and replaced them with grade 8 bolts from Ace Hardware.It looks more sanitary with the bolts rather than unused studs sticking out.When you install the new bolts put a light coat of silicone on them to prevent corrosion.
Sounds like they gave you the wrong water pump ! i think they gave you the cast iron one and you needed the alum one . Whatever it is , you have the wrong one and take thins as a hard lesson in rebuilding anything on any car . Never give the old part back until ever thing is put back together and running good ! Yes that miserable old ******* that is old fashion is the BEST parts people you can have ! Some are still around and mostly in small towns . They are the ones that just look at your part and walk back and bring you the new one you need without ever looking it up ! They have done it so long they know all the part numbers in their heads . OK first make sure your belts line up fine , if not that pump won't work . If it will work for you , then replace all those long cruddy bolts with new grade 8 bolds to they won't ever break ! They was the bad problems with the Ford water pumps . As Jeff said , after 1984 all the pumps went to a reverse flow/serpentine set up and the pumps look the same unless you take the plate off and check the fins out to see which way they flow . Just remember to make sure your old part is the same as the new one . Don't accept that one size fits all part either from a cross reference book . Unless you are very experienced in swapping parts to make them work , just stick with the one that is the same as the one you brought back ! Yes those little turds behind the counter only know how to put gas in their little imports so never , ever take their word for it ! Jim
I would say that the lessons have been learn for sure. The one thing that I didn't do was give them the old water pump, I still have that crusty thing sitting in the trunk. Both parts do look the same and I measured the distance from the housing to where the fan pulley attaches and it is the same. I took off the back plate and the fins are what I've been told is a multi-directional. The only problem that I'm having is that the area where the bolt holes are either seem to be 1/8in too short or too long. Now my question is, can I keep this water pump on there since I already siliconed the hell out of it and stuck it on there Monday? I don't think that Autozone will take it back now that I've placed it one the vehicle.
I'd say to or not to take it back is up to you. I think I'd go back and tell 'em that, according to what they told you and sold you, it's supposed to fit but isn't right, although you tried to make it work. I haven't sold parts in years but this stuff happens. Ford used to have it's own authorized remanufactured parts distributor and I can't recollect any specific issues but I know that if - being the Parts Manager - they told me something fit but it didn't, they'd take it back and make it right, to me and ultimately to the customer. I'd guess AutoZone should do same. Give it a try; worst they can do is say no. I guess I'm old, guess I can be a bit scroungy, but usually not too grumpy... and I always used books to look up parts. Unfortunately I don't have a set of 'newer' parts books or I'd check it out for you. And regarding OSI (Obsolete, Supercede, Interchange), usually Ford would include a brief explanation for such actions, along with any additional or different bolts, gaskets, etc. needed to make the interchange work. Does AZ do this? I don't know. Sounds to me like there's one or two issues here - either the parts 'book' used to look up the pump is incorrect, or they're telling you only part of the story, the missing part being it's a replacement pump that will work but they don't give you the info needed to make it work correctly. Take it back and pitch your complaint. I'm bettin' they'll take it back. Maybe remind 'em they're lucky you're not charging them for labor to find out it doesn't work. To make this even long story even longer, - - I used to work at a Ford dealership the metro Detroit area, about 30 miles from one of their large parts depots. And Ford used to have a tech support line for us to call if we had issues such as yours. Those folks were good! And getting in good with them was like having an ace up your sleeve; they could make us look really good sometimes. I don't now if such support even exists anymore. Things are different nowadays. Dammit. Good luck, let us know how you make out.
Eric (missysdad1) is right in one very important point...... NEVER send a core in at time of purchase and always take your old part in for comparisons!!!!!! Keep comparing until you end up with the right part. We have a parts place here that was employed with a couple of old guys that knew everything about everything.... well, they retired and a couple of kids got hired and completely destroyed the parts house with lack of experience. A simple thing like taking a wire routing of an upper radiator hose for a custom fit was always welcomed to the "back room" so I could spend some time getting the right bends for my application is now off limits as I have to have a year, make, and model for them to look up.... I haven't been back since.... Trouble now is that most of the experience has left the industry and that leaves us to make better decisions and get creative on our parts shopping. my 2 cents....
Ha ha I just read my last post and I spell "thank" wrong. Sometimes typos are just funny. Now to the real reason for this post. I spoke with Napa, took the old water pump to them and the box for the one Autozone gave me. Napa told me that the old one is a performance water pump and the one I bought at Autozone is a regular water pump, and this will be the cause to all my problems with the bolts not matching up. I feel a little better about this answer since they told me that the one I have is actually the right water pump but its just not for performance. On the other had, I feel like this information could be misleading also.
I think you are making this whole process far more complicated than it has to be. You don't need to know everbody's opinion of how the watch works, you just need to locate an exact duplicate of the pump you took off. Since you still have it, just drag it around to all the parts stores until you find one exactly like it. Buy the duplicate, install it and be sure everything fits and works properly. Once you've got the car sorted out, take the Autozone pump back to Autozone along with your invoice and original pump. Point out the differences and politely but firmly ask for your money back. Then hang the crusty old pump you took off on the wall to remind you of this little adventure. You'll giggle every time you look at it...I promise! PS: I've only ever changed one Ford water pump, but the bolts were corroded and weak enough that one or two of them broke off and had to be drilled out of the block. What a nightmare! Take everybody's advice and replace as many bolts/studs as possible with Grade 8 replacements, using good mechanic techniques and then use Permatex or silicone on the threads and bolt shafts during the installation to protect the new bolts into the future.
sounds like you got the wrong pump. like has been said there are a few diffrent pumps . cast iron and aluminum. they take diffrent length bolts . there is a diffrence in the impellers . there not unidirectional . look at them real close to see they are made oposite. and if you install the wrong direction on your engine it will cause cooling problems . the next thing is also has been coverd . replace the bolt if posible. if they break off the next time you have to change the pump you will have to pull of the timming cover and drill them out .
I was a Ford engine mechanic for many years and as being retired now I still rebuild sbf engines all the time . I always replace those bolts because you won't spend $10 for them and that , my friend is worth their weight in gold ! You might not ever have to change your water pump again but just because you got a new pump doesn't mean it won't leak again ! Also make sure you use silicon on those bolt threads too ! Drilling out or trying to remove corroded bolts in a water pump housing & block is not any fun at all ! I don't care how good you are or how good the tools you have , drilling out broken bolts plain **** the big one ! If you have learned anything from the water pump nightmare you just had gone through , REMEMBER these few things , Always take the old part with you and make sure it is the exact same one you have , even if the person behind the counter says "It will work , Trust me " ! If they don't have it , then leave and go to the next parts store till some smart person gets you the correct part you need ! NEVER , EVER trust that kid that know everything behind the counter ! NEVER return your core until the job is completely done and working fine ! Always replace any bolts , nuts , washers or threaded rods with a NEW one if there is any sign of rust , corrosion , striped or galled threads ! Always take your time and do the job right the first time ! Anytime you have a bolt that goes into a water p***age area , ALWAYS use some silicon on the threads to prevent leakage through the threads . Never over tighten any bolt no matter what it's used for . Also , There is NEVER a stupid or dumb question asked here . We were all new at this at one time or another and I will be the FIRST one to slam anyone that states it's dumb or stupid ! The last and most important thing to remember , If you don't know or you are unsure of what you are doing , WE are all always here to help you get the problem fixed correctly the first time and we will not steer you wrong on what we tell you . On this group we are all FRIENDS from all over the world ! You can't get that kind of help and advise from anyplace but here ! Jim
I have to thank you all for your help. I do have a question about this silicone on the threads though. What if every time the bolts go in the wholes, they come out with the dirtiest grease that I've ever seen all over the threads? Is this okay or do I have bigger problems than I can tell right now?
thats most likely not grease. but just muck thats leaked into the holes from the gaskets leaking. which is what causes the bolts to rust and freeze up and brake.
Spray carburetor cleaner and a proper size tap will clean the holes out nicely. If you reuse the old bolt, take time to run the threads on a wire wheel until they are shiny and clean. As Retro Jim pointed out, if the threads are pitted or damaged, replace the bolt without fail. Then use Permatex or silicone on the threads and the bolt shaft to protect the bolt into the future.
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