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History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Hey, SunRoof! Look, the options list not only included a Bi-Flex bumper but even CHAIN DRIVE!

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    Seriously, though, cool pic. I have a soft spot for cars converted to other uses. It's pretty amazing that people had to make their own rigs, and were still doing so into the '20s when companies gradually srated manufacturing the hardware for such conversions.

    If I'm not mistaken, somebody had a thread specifically on wreckers/tow trucks. Would be a good one to check out again!
     
  2. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Gary, ya did it again. Where in the world did you come up with a pic of a car that, seemingly, nobody else has anyplace? This is one obscure car -- and am I seeing only THREE wheels?

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=351 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD height=228></TD><TD width=320 colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD colSpan=3 height=4></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD></TD><TD class=TextObject width=318>1920 Martin Scootmobile
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  3. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SunRoofJim, I know you prefer the regular convertible version, but I di this great pic you posted. To me, the retractible was emblematic of a period of optimism -- even futurism -- that was quickly dampened by the lengthy recession that started in 1958.

    Did anybody have even a GUESS what the swanky car was in Post # 3542?
     
  4. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,824

    swi66
    Member


    Would you beleive a 3-wheeler website!

    Always poking around for the obscure stuff.
    Remember we did 1 wheel, 2 wheel, 3-wheel, 4 orf course, then 6 and even 8 wheeled vehicles.

    Ran across a 5-wheeler the other day.
    No picture, but supposedly it was supposed to help in the snow and the extra rear wheel was chain driven.

    1908 Glover

    Pincher Creek, Alta. W.R. Dobbie bought $8,000 worth of auto parts in Chicago, and assembled one car he called a Glover. The machine had a fifth wheel driven by a chain, supposedly to help dig out the car when stuck.

    But can't find a picture!!!!!
     
  5. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,824

    swi66
    Member

    [​IMG]

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    1900 Maxmobile, first manufactured automobile in Canada.

    And there is even a documentary about this car.
    The Maxmobile -- The Maxmobile is a feature documentary about the first 100% Canadian car. David Maxwell, a Watford, Ontario blacksmith, built the Maxmobile entirely by hand right down to the single cylinder engine and hickory wagon wheels. He drove it onto the streets of Watford for the first time in 1900. Dave Maxwell invented the first car designed and built entirely by one man. By hand. Many other first cars of the time were merely assembled by people who bought engines and other parts from around the world. Mr. Maxwell designed and built every part of the Maxmobile himself. He created his own carburetor, constructed his own radiator and even invented his own springs, selling the patent to an American man who made a fortune from it. Early automobile pioneers Henry Ford and Sam McLaughlin were eager to be in business with Dave Maxwell. Ford wanted Maxwell to be his partner but Mrs. Maxwell refused to move to Detroit and leave family and small town life behind.
     
  6. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    [FONT=Arial, Century Gothic, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Century Gothic, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Century Gothic, Helvetica]BEYSTER-DETROIT

    Harry Beyster Obit: Harry Beyster attended the University of Michigan before he entered the auto industry in 1906. He began as co-owner of a Detroit garage and then founded his own auto-engineering firm the Beyster Detroit Motor Car Co. He went to the Fisher Body Corp. in 1920 and was in charge of the firm's plant engineering and architectural departments and later on headed the same departments for GM. (This was a $ 40.000 job.) In 1938 GM loaned him to the city of Detroit and he was appointed Department of Public Works commissioner. After World War II president Truman asked him to head the US War Damages Commission in the Philippine Islands. He also served the Federal Government as a technical advisor to several Latin American countries.

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    About his father,from 1908 The Detroiters: BEYSTER, John, manufacturer and dealer in lumber, lath, shingles, boxes, etc.; born in Holland, May 27, 1838; served apprenticeship at carpenter's trade in Holland for 51/2 years; came to America, 1867, and located in Detroit; married in Holland, 1860, Hendricka Matthie. Followed carpenter's trade and contracting in Detroit until 1877, when he established planning mill and yard in his own name, which still continues. Member Detroit Board of Commerce. Republican. Mason Recreation: Reading. Office: 875 Fort St., W. Residence: 444 Lafayette Av.

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  7. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

  8. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,824

    swi66
    Member

    Martin Stationette

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    Not extinct, one recently restored
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  9. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,824

    swi66
    Member

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    In early 1940, Rudy Stoessel, Paul Erdos, and Burt Chalmers opened a small body shop in Hollywood called Coachcraft, Ltd., and began building custom bodies for movie stars and wealthy locals. In 1945, William Hewson raised capital to form the Hewson Pacific Corp., and planned to produce the &#8220;Hewson Rocket&#8221; and sell it for $1,000. Stoessel fabricated the body shape and Erdos welded the aluminum panels together. Hewson&#8217;s idea was to give the body form a very aerodynamic shape with no projections anywhere&#8211;headlights covered with glass, tail-light lenses flush, and no outside door handles. As Hewson&#8217;s capital was depleted by the time the car&#8217;s body was finished, Coachcraft kept the car in their front showroom until it was auctioned off in 1959 to a used car dealer in Minneapolis for $650. Coachcraft survived until 1966.
     
  10. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
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    There was a difference between the DeVaux and the Continental-DeVaux. The DeVaux was a steel body over wood buck with front hinged doors and the C-D was an all steel body with suicide doors, even their big cars.

    I seek a '33 Roadster. Unfortunately there seem to be none extant. In fact, I've never even seen a photo of one, just this drawing.

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  11. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,573

    alsancle
    Member

    Very nice looking. Also a perfect fit for this thread.
     
  12. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Would be interesting to know who that used car dealer was.
     
  13. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    Just a point of interest. The carousel at Greenfield Village is a Hirschell-Spillman. It has nearly the exact carousel giraffe as we have in our living room.

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  14. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    Here's a car that's so extinct that it never made it into production. It may have, had Ford not pulled the plug on the Continental Division.

    How about a suicide door Continental Mark II? It was originally conceived as a BOF but morphed into a unit-bodied car sharing the same platform as the Lincoln Mark III of 1958.

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    I recently came into possession of a full set of sectional drawings for this car, saved by the family of Elmer Rohn, HVAC engineer for the Continental Division.

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    The full set of drawings is posted here in PDF format. Using the +/- tool reveals amazing details and drafting skills.

    http://www.markiiforum.com/showthread.php?t=896

    This appears to be as far as the car went before the project was cancelled, along with the Division.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,824

    swi66
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  16. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    In the '50s, Briggs Cunningham needed to build 25 cars so he could be a "manufacturer", allowing him to have his cars compete in certain classes.

    He stuffed a 331 Hemi under the hood with a custom intake manifold of his own design to accommodate 4 carbs and mounted it to a chassis of his own design. The cars were shipped to Vignale in Italy where the chassis was mated to very sexy body. There were 25 coupes and 3-6 convertibles made, depending who you talk to.

    These pictures are compliments of Bob Lutz, provided when I recruited his car for a show.

    Enjoy.

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  17. 1928 Road Yacht.

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  18. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Barry & SWI, glad to be back from vacation and GLAD you two brought up Herschell-Spillman again. One of my fave engines, for several reasons!

    Though they were built a LOT of years, in four-, six- and eight cylinders, and were used in a plethora of cars, trucks, tractors, etc., probably only rivaled by Continental, they are exceedingly RARE nowadays. Even worse, many even find it hard to obtain reliable INFO on them (witness the tenatious bloke in Australia who restored the Dixie Flyer roadster!). Lastly, the seemingly unlikely CONNECTION between a builder of amusement-park attractions and a more than viable (though less hyped) automotive engine maker!

    From this thread, we know that one fella is doing a serious research project on H-S engines, including all possible specs and just WHAT makes, models, mechanisms they were used in. And after about 1916, the H-S V-8, we have learned, was the basic platform for development of Peerless' own V-8 (please see HJManiac's Post #3086).

    Also, on SWI's link to the current Tonawonda exhibition, it is contended that the H-S was at least ONE of the platforms used in developing the Liberty engines for WWI.

    I have to ASK you: IS this stuff fascinating or not?
     
  19. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    You may also find it fascinating as to why so few of the carousel engines survived. It's the same reason that so few carousel animals survived. Since just about every town of any size at all had a fairgrounds and at the fairgrounds were the carousels, as other entertainment was pretty limited.

    The reason so few survived is that typical county fairs were held on flood plains, where land was public or real cheap. How many times could an engine or wood animal survive being submerged for any length of time?

    You bring up a point about Continental engines. The car I seek, a '33 Continental/Devaux Roadster was clearly built, but no photographs seem to exist. Does anyone out there have a photo, or better yet, a complete car?
     
  20. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Bugatti Type 59 : 1933

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    • Year of manufacture: 1933–35
    • Units built: 8
    • Engine: 8-cylinder in-line engine, 2 valve/cylinder, 2 overhead camshafts
    • Cubic capacity/bore [cm³/mm]: 3257/72 x 100
    • Compressor: yes
    • Carburetor: 2 Zenith
    • Power [HP at revolutions/min]: 250 at 5500
    • Forward gears: 4
    • Drive: shaft-driven
    • Front wheel suspension: live axle, semi-elliptical springs
    • Back wheel suspension: live axle, inverted quarter-elliptical springs
    • Brakes: Cable drum brakes
    • Wheelbase [meters]: 2.6
    • Wheel track [meters]: 1.25
    • Tire size: 5.50 x 19
    • Weight [kilograms]: approx. 750
     
  21. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Whoa! May not be a '33 DeVaux roadster, but THIS is one keen Bugatti! Thanks for these pix, SunRoof! One of those cars that just makes you wanna JUMP IN & take her for a spin, eh?

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    Barry, THANKS for the perspective on fairgrounds often lying in flood plains and the resultant negative impact on H-S engine & carousel horse survival. I never thought about this, but it makes a ton of common sense!!!

    Dude, I hope you hit paydirt in the search for a '33 DeVeaux roadster! Hopefully, someone on the HAMB knows of one.
     
  22. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
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    It would actually be a '33 Continental as the DeVaux name was dropped early on.

    If I ever do find one I have a proper tail light lens.

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  23. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Barry, looks as if your tail light lense would also fit the '33 Continental Beacon sedan body, too. This looks to have been a sweet little car in '33, AND for around $400! Continental only made 3- to 4,000 of these four-cylinder Beacons, their base model. And, I'm wondering how many style points may have been shared with the even scarcer (extinct?) roadster you are seeking (?). Surely, some aspects would be same or similar, you think?

    Since Continentals of '33 and '34 used three different engines, I also wonder what was under the hood of the '33 roadtser, perhaps the 199-CID six? Do you happen to know if the roadster was a 65-horse Flyer? Perhaps even an 85-horse Ace?

    As you are undoubtedly aware, when DeVaux went under in '32, Continental of Grand Rapids stepped in and continued to build them under their own name for '33 and '34. Incidentally, the Continentals reportedly used a patented three-point, live-rubber engine mount system.

    This car is featured on ConceptCarZ, and I am grateful to them for this look at a rare car. Now, if we could only find a roadster!!!

    I might add: One source claims there's a DeVaux roadster somewhere in Grand Rapids; seriously, might not that give us some clue as to what the Continental roadster looked like?

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    ConceptCarZ states that one Mister Smith has made this Continental a labor of love since beginning to deal for it in 1959. Notably, when he located the flying girl hood ornament at a swap meet, he paid nearly what the whole car had cost in 1933!
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    These photos of Mr. Smith's Continental were taken at the Hilton Head Concours d'Elegance
     
  24. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    My Mark II convertible took a BOC at Hilton Head that year so I got to see that car up close and personal. It's a relatively small car for the era, but the level of design and craftsmanship was excellent for such an inexpensive car.

    The '32 is nothing like the '33. The '32 DeVaux was sheet metal over a wood body frame while the '33 Continental was an all-steel body. That was a rarity for that period.

    Also, the DeVaux was a conventionally front hinged door while all of the Continental cars had suicide doors, front and back.
     
  25. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    BTW, Barry, a while back, I remember stumbling across a Durant-specific club site covering all non-GM makes Billy Durant was even remotely associated with. I am sure I remember Continental being in that mix (hey, if they had the Canadian Rugby, they'd have Continetal, right?). Worth a try!
     
  26. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    I've spoken to a number of people from the Durant site. They've tried to be helpful, but no luck.

    This was taken at the same show as the '33 was at.

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  27. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Hey, we were posting simultaneously there. LOL

    Yes, that Beacon looks small; I think one source said it was 101, and the other models used 107 and (I think) 111.

    GOT that about the clad VS all-steel body, man. I just had to ask the question and eliminate one possibility, you know?

    BTW, if you have a Mark II 'vert, that's as rare as hen's teeth. You have smething special!
     
  28. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Barry, NICE follow-up to your Post #3562! Man! The Mark II was the luxury flip-side of the small 'bird. Too bad the convertible couldn't go into regular production!!!
     
  29. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    Glad it didn't.

    Here's another for the thread.

    In 1954, while the Continental Mark II was working its way into production a convertible and retractable hard top were being developed. The convertible idea went by the wayside in favor of a drop hard-top.

    The Continental "cowbelly" frame was through its development so a rolling chassis was sent to Hess & Eisenhardt to be built up into a "Retractable", the option thought to be the most acceptable to a high-end buyer. Prototype body parts were chopped, channeled and reassembled on the Mark II chassis.

    These pictures were sent to me by an old-time Ford employee assigned to H & E's facility showing the build-up of the car.

    It was driven for a couple of years during Mark II production. It is rumored to still be in the Dearborn area hidden in a garage as it was purportedly stolen from Ford when the Mark II program was shut down.

    The Mark II Retractable is the Holy Grail of the Mark II world.

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  30. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Barry said: "Glad it didn't."
    Jimi: LOL ! Reason obvious!

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    Barry, as for the Mark II retractible -- and the intriguing back-story of theft and sequester of the mule -- all I can say is . . . DAAAAMN!!!! The true tales of "almost-but-never-wuz cars," as well as the saints and sinners of automotive history, are the stuff I live for! THANKS for sharing the story and the rare pix, Barry!
     

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