History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

1949 Frazer 2-dr Manhattan Convertible.

This is a "Never Wuz"

 

Rare Ragtops

<!--END Page Title --> <!--BEGIN Content Body //--> May 06, 2009

by Byron Olsen
.


Even with the windows and top lowered, the author’s Frazer
Manhattan’s window frames remain in the “up” position.

The rarest body style produced in the years since World War II is, with little doubt, the four-door convertible. Our “Motor City Milestone” choice this time is among the rarest of the postwar convertible sedans: the four-door convertibles built by Kaiser and Frazer for the 1949, ’50 and ’51 model years.

Convertible sedans had enjoyed a modest popularity during the 1930s. Open had virtually disappeared by that time, because they had no side windows, only side curtains, and were uncomfortable in bad weather. Convertible sedans had roll-up windows and were nearly as weather-proof as closed sedans. But it was the Great Depression, and few people were in a sporty mood. As a result, sales, and then production, had all but dried up by 1940.

The last four-door convertibles built by U.S. manufacturers before the war were the 1941 Cadillac Series 62, the Buick Super and Roadmaster, and the Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight. Part of the reason four-door convertibles disappeared was that, starting in 1941, two-door convertibles added rear-seat side windows, making the a much more pleasant place to be. Before that, riding in the back seat of a two-door convertible coupe with the top up was like climbing into a cave.

For the 1949 model year, K-F facelifted the models it introduced in 1947 with new grilles and more chrome. K-F designers also looked for ways to expand the number of models. Since its start-up, the corporation had built only four-door sedans. A completely new body design was planned that would include coupes and two-doors, but it would not be ready until 1951. So, designers set about coming up with new variations on the four-door. One was the Kaiser hatchback described in my last column (Old Cars Weekly, March 5, 2009). Another was our “Motor City Milestones” subject in this issue: a four-door convertible.

The first prototypes were, literally, sedans with the roof cut off. Testing soon revealed that sedan frames were not rigid enough without the reinforcement provided by a steel roof, so K-F finally had to buy frames specially reinforced with an “X” member. The minimum order was 1,000 frames. An upholstered bulkhead was also installed across the back of the front seat to support and reinforce the “B” pillars (the door posts between the front and rear doors).

None of this extra reinforcement was any surprise to experienced designers working on the project. Four-door convertibles in the 1930s commonly made use of a bulkhead between the door posts, and convertibles always require stronger frames than closed cars. There were additional challenges in converting sedan side windows to use in a convertible. A filler panel was needed between the door windows. In the 1930s, most convertible sedans had a solid but removable post secured by thumb screws. K-F took a different approach, using a chrome-framed window instead. This window was not removable, so the chrome window frames for the door windows were left fixed, as well. The door windows rolled down, but the frames remained in the “up” position. K-F couldn’t afford to engineer new window tracks and a removable center window.

Nevertheless, the finished convertible was solid and drove well. Interiors were very luxurious with top-grain leather, center armrests front and rear and hydraulic The convertibles were considerably heavier than the sedans, so performance was more sedate. The Kaiser and Frazer versions were equally well trimmed, with the Frazer listing for $100 more. Both were introduced in January 1949 — an unlikely month for a convertible.

To utilize some of the reinforced frames bought for the convertible, another model using a steel roof welded to the convertible body was built. It used the convertible windows and doors and was sold as a . The roof was of a lower profile than the sedans with a wrap-around rear window and was marketed as the Kaiser Virginian (meanwhile, the Kaiser convertible sedan was simply in the Deluxe series). The Frazer convertible and its fixed-roof counterpart were part of the Manhattan series.

Sales did not go well for Kaiser and Frazer during the 1949 and 1950 model years. Most of the competition had new body designs, while K-F products were now in their third year of production. But Henry Kaiser had insisted on maintaining high rates of production. The result was thousands of cars and finished bodies left over at the end of the year. Although it had been decided that the Frazer was to be discontinued in 1951 when the completely redesigned ’51 Kaiser was introduced, new front and rear fenders were designed for the Frazer and installed on the leftover ’49 and ’50 models. The leftover Kaiser and Frazers were all converted to 1951 Frazers!

The beautifully trimmed Frazer and Kaiser convertibles found few buyers. They were priced near Cadillac territory, in spite of being propelled by a modest flathead six. Only 65 1949 and ’50 model Frazer Manhattan convertibles were sold compared to a paltry 22 Kaiser Deluxe convertibles. For 1951, there were no Kaiser convertibles, and just 131 Frazer Manhattan convertibles were sold. Ironically, the ’51 Frazer was a sales success. Some 50,000 orders were received for new Frazers, but to no avail. Once the leftover bodies were used up, there were no more Frazers built.

The Frazer and Kaiser four-door convertibles were almost the end of that body style, but not quite. During the 1950s, Mercedes-Benz built a few hundred Series 300 convertible sedans. Last but not least, Lincoln built four-door convertibles from 1961 through 1967. But that, as they say, is another story.



1951 was the closest Frazers came to receiving fins in back.



The instrument panel on the 1951 Frazer was little changed from earlier models.
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1919 Tamplin cycle-car, like many light cars of the era, was built with a wooden frame and wood body panels. This tiny tandem 2-seater was the second Carden cyclecar produced by Capt. John Carden. He sold the manufacturing rights to the Carden concessionaire, E. A. Tamplin, who promptly renamed it. It is powered by an 8 hp 1,000cc air-cooled V-twin J.A.P. engine driving the rear wheels via segmented belt. The Tamplin stayed in production until 1925.

 

1930 Ernst Neumann-Neander prototype. Like the wild, extravagant designs he created for Szawe, this sleek cyclecar makes liberal use of mahogany to create an aerodynamic body. A 350 cc motorcycle engine is mounted beside the driver.

 

SWI, the Tamplin is an odd looking cyclecar, isn't it? Do you know what city or state it was made in?

 

SunRoof, thanks for the thorough coverage on Joe Washington Frazer. In my book, I rate him with the like of the giants of early motoring, people like RE Olds , Charles King and testy old Henry.



Sincere thanks to Hemmings for this image of Joe W. Frazer

Like so many other unsung heroes in American history, Yale-educated Frazer had to work with a hand tied behind his back to get the K-F brand up and running. He was often overruled by Henry Kaiser. And since Kaiser controled the lion's share of the capital, Frazer had to knuckle under and build only one Frazer for every TWO Kaisers at Willow Run. As a result, there were a lot of standing Frazer orders that were canceled because people didn't want to wait months for the factory to catch up.

As I see it, Frazer was the one who made K-F such a fast-out-of-the-gate, whopping success right after the war, and a hard-headed blunder by Kaiser in over-building fully 200,000 by-then old hat '49 Kaisers (overruling Frazer's counsel, too), put the company permanently behind the proverbial eight-ball. So, IMHO, Frazer wasn't the one to blame for the company's lack of long-term success.

But, among real, studied car people, Frazer will always be remembered for his creativity, energy and car-biz acumen (please see footnote below). And that's good enough, fair enough for me.


[Note: Folks, for another solid piece (and some worthy analysis!) on Joe Frazer, I urge you to see a Hemmings Motor News piece from May 1, 2009, by one Jim Donnelly. The article can be found at www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2009/05/01/hmn_feature14 ]

 

What's in a name?

For the sake of folks newer to the old-car hobbies, I would like to point out that anyone with a Frazer automobile can (maybe even should) legitimately think of it as a post-war Graham. Joe Frazer and some associates bought controlling interest (at $2 a share) of moribund Graham-Paige in '44, and Frazer pledged to company staff and rank-and-file to return the company to auto-buildng after the war.

After the back-to-back prewar flops of the Graham Sharknose and Hollywood models, HOWEVER, a purely business decision was made NOT to call the cars Grahams. I can't say that emphatically enough. To get technical, the Frazer prototype and many of the earliest Frazers were made under the Graham banner, before the Kaiser-Frazer bond was officially sealed.
If this sounds like splitting hairs, well, maybe it really is. Officially, the cars were "Frazers." Graham-Paige did, however, maintain a degree of autonomy, corporately and in terms of product lines. G-P created the very successful Rototiller line of farm/garden implements. And after leaving the car industry for good, they bought Madison Square Garden and other entertainment venues. The G-P name officially changed in 1961, and the company remains in business today -- something Joe, Bob and Ray Graham, as well as Joe W. Frazer, would be quite proud of!


From Post #2961: Created by Howard "Dutch"
Darrin during the war, this prototype was to be
the basis for the post-war Graham return. In-
stead, the car became the Frazer. And since
Henry Kaiser didn't have a car designed, it
served in the dual role as a "Kaiser," too!



Sincere thanks to the Frazer Fraternity, which shows this
photo on the internet at their site, public.fotki.com/kfnut/the_frazer_fraternity/darrinby,
site of the official chat room of the Frazer Fraternity
organization. For a great read, first just search Frazer
Convertible on Google.

 

Bidding ended on the 4 door vert KF on eBay at 11k. My understanding is that he's looking for 15. Restoring a heavily chromed 50s car can be an expensive undertaking. As cool as this car is, It's probably an upside down sort of thing trying to restore it, even when starting with a nice solid starter.

 

The Tamplin was a British cyclecar.
Loved the looks, was poking around a woodie website and found wooden cyclecars.

 

AJ, I guess that sort of figures. Lots of commodities -- especially costly autos -- have been a drag on ebay for, it seems, a couple of years now. I guess he couldn't be blamed for running it through and just SEEING if there was someone out there with a burning desire. After ALL, it's a darn rare model.

I surely see your point about the EXPENSE. I guess that's why i have not yet done all the pot-metal trim on my '55 DeSoto yet! Chroming just seems to climb HIGHER all the time!

Though I don't consider the "converted convertible" Frazer a true convertible (mid window stayed rigid), it was, nevertheless, considered the first new four-door post-war 'vert -- as SunRoof said, the only one 'til Lincoln issued a '62 (those were KEEN!).

 

AJ, I should have added: For someone to take the ifnancial hit on a detailed resto, THAT would have to be just an act of love and adoration for the model!!! And, osme people did it for that very reason -- maybe they recoup at some future point, maybe they don't, right? I supposed if you're rolling in dough, you'd do it and not think twice.

 

New bit of information. Phil Skinner, of KBB sent me this.

Some have said that a Roadster never existed. Why would they list the value of used cars that never existed? It also appears that the Beacon and Flyer both had Roadsters in the line-up.

Where are they?

The search goes on.

 

Certainly not extinct, but the company is.
Made by the Buffalo Fire Appliance Company

 

BARRY SAID:


New bit of information. Phil Skinner, of KBB sent me this.


Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">The Red book only provides values. In the July 1, 1934 edition, the 1933 Beacon roadster had a new list of $355.00, and had a cash value of just $130, a 63.3% hit in just one year, while the Flyer roadster had sold new for $450.00, was valued at an even $200, or a 55.5% drop.

By June 1935, the Beacon roadster&#8217;s value had fallen to just $75.00 (79% drop from new); while the Flyer&#8217;s roadster was now pegged at $120, a 73% drop. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Some have said that a Roadster never existed. Why would they list the value of used cars that never existed? It also appears that the Beacon and Flyer both had Roadsters in the line-up.

Where are they?

The search goes on.

JIMI: Barry, it stands to reason from what TANGIBLE evidence you've turned up that the Continental roadster -- at least one or two -- should be OUT THERE some place. Something like this takes on the mantle of a quest, a worthwhile quest. It's good to have a standard-bearer for such an effort. Keep up the good work!<!-- / message -->

 

SWI, the Buffalo sure has a distinctively different look from the other makes, doesn't it? And I dig the teardrop back fenders!

 

This one's been puzzling me for a while,
a Liberty LaFrance touring with a narrow
V-12 in it. Supposedly built by the Liberty
company, usually known for sixes. I'm
wondering if this is a SPECIAL, maybe just
a one-off?

There are a couple of confusing points here
-- questions left unanswered. It certainly
appears that the V-12 is a Liberty aircraft
engine, but I don't think those got into actual
production until 1917, mostly 1918. So there's
one issue. Next, nothing about this car (after
the motor) says Liberty to me. Note the chain
drive.

You can see the multi-mysteries this photo
raises, right? ANY help out there???


1916 Liberty LaFrance V-12 Touring, Liberty Motor Co.,
Detroit, Mi. (1916-1924), thanks to Royal Feltner's
earlyamericanautomobiles.com site.

 

The Henry J is a fake Prototype it has 1955 chevy side trim. In the last 4 years 3 "Factory Prototype convertible"s have come up for sale on Evil Bay. There was even one on henryjcars.com a green one with a flathead 8 out of a ford on there. There was even one on craigslist that someone on the hamb was thinking of buying. Hate to break it to that person but the concept cars minus the AMP Car that Tom Wilson saved were crushed. I helped wet sand on that car so I know it's a one of two with a mitch match of parts to make a concept car. http://images6.fotki.com/v1/photos/1/12782/22282/3QtrFrnt-vi.jpg

 

MrDickies, yup, buying a used car on the 'net is the same as buying a used car in person: CAVEAT EMPTOR, eh? And, surely, the '55 Chevy trim wouldn't be taken as genuine by anyone but, maybe, a car-hungry sub-teen dreaming of a license and some WHEELS. 'nough said specifically about that Henry J.

Officially or not, we regularly speak on this thread of a specific category for cars that didn't go into production, some of which didn't even get to the prototype or show-car stage: Never-WUZ cars. LOL

The other side of the coin turns on the term you used, namely concept car. Some people call them dream cars. Others say customized, or individualized. And, money aside, some people would die for a well done "altered" car, because it's not a run-of-the-mill car like others have. They want a car that expresses the owner's individuality. If that's what someone really WANTS -- and they have their eyes wide open, plus bucks to burn -- then I say FINE. That's the car for them.

But regardless, people should not rush in headlong and allow themselves to be deceived, and they should not allow their own wishful thinking to hold sway, either. Anyone should do their homework before laying out the long green. That's especially true IF someone hopes to make money down the road on what they think is an ultra-rare or one-off car. Without provenance of a factory tie, the resale field may shrink or get dicey. And I've seen too many items on fee-bay where the seller implies provenance but falls way short of saying it, or showing it. Nobody wants to prove P.T. Barnum right again, do they?

All that said, a few pretty unique cars pop into my head that I'd throw dough at, if I won a major lottery! LOL An el Morocco is one. The lone "Tucker" convertible would be another. I'd be tickled, too, with a unique '58 Edsel retractable custom, and I don't even know if anyone's done that, yet. Most of the Exner Pinin Farina concept cars.







This is 'vert #1 done for Lincoln by Hess & Eisenhardt.
The proud owner is Barry, a semi-regular on this thread.





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Ooops, it was early this morningn and I said Pini farina in that last post (they worked with Nash). I should have said Ghia, which worked for Chrysler & Virgil Exner!

 

WOWEE! What have we here??? Dog427 posted this over
on the "Sitting and Rotting" thread, and I fell off my chair.
Looks like a Lincoln concept project, maybe from '54 or '55
for the short-lived Premier series of '56 and '57??? Any
thoughts, gang?

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See a tad of resemblance???

'56 Chrysler Norseman working prototype

 

This one? XM-800, it was at Meadow Brook in 2009.

 

Barry, that's it, man. I wonder what made Dog 427 think it was still sitting and rotting? OR, is this a second copy???

Anyway, as I asked, viewed from the side, doesn't it appear like the '56 and '57 Lincoln Premiers???

 

Yes, many styling cues made it through.

Here's some more feedback from the NADA guide:

 

I just bought what appears to be the last surviving non-rodded example of a '40 Ford pick-up. Does that qualify as truly extinct?

 

Barry, YES, in a tech sense, for sure! Hey, man, you may have answered a question that's bugged me a long time. I have a headlight rim (bezel) that I'd like to give to someone in need for a project. I could tell it was in the FoMoCo family, late-'30s/early-'40s, but I couldn't nail it down for sure.

I developed a theory it was PICKUP, NOT auto because of sublte cues. Could you take a close-up phone pic of one of those rims and PM it to me? I don't want any $$$ for the part. But it would be a shame to throw it away if it's 70 years old!!!

 

Best I could do as the truck is not in my possession yet.

 

Last weekend I was at an antique truck show in Batavia.
There was one there with the flat 4 banger!
I would say, that is even rarer.

 

Good 'nough, Barry, buddy. Exactly those general dimensions & shape! Not a '40 pickup, though, as mine doesn't have the two prominent top ridges, nor the small "striations" in between.

I'm still conviced it's in the FoMoCo family, maybe Zephyr? Oh, well, I'm off topic, I think, so I'll try & find the right format to post a pic.

 

Great-granddaddy of the Wienermobile??? Looks
like a photograph. Anybody know if it still exists?

 

Okey-dokey, no, it was not "real" but a futuristic Art Deco "streamliner" band bus created for the '35 action-musical romp, "Stolen Harmony," starring tough guy George Raft, real-life big bandleader Ben Bernie (best remembered for penning "Sweet Georgia Brown"), debuting actor Lloyd Nolan and Bill Cagney, look-alike brother of James Cagney. Among the showgirls is Jane Wyman (future Ronald Reagan spouse) in an unbilled appearance. Bernie played screen bandleader Jack Conrad. And with a main score by Academy-Award-winner Max Steiner and makeup by Academy laurelist Edith Head, one might think the film had a lot going for it.

One would be wrong! LOL Maybe it should have been titled, "The Strange Voyage of the SS Jack Conrad"!

I think the movie is interesting, though, because it is SO typical of the fluffy, escapist entertainment often done during the depths of the depression, in particular by Paramount. Period charm noted, though, it almost seems as if there was no writer! What plot there is, is both shallow and a jumble of movie styles popular in the mid-'30s, seemingly stewed up merely for the sake of entertaining folks for an hour-and-a-half! "Stolen Harmony" is part music-and-dance (George Raft gets to dance!!!), part comedy, part gangster film, part car-chase/action film, and part showcase for the prop bus that looks as if Buckminster Fuller designed it during a severe hangover. (I suspect this film formula was used to craft most of the '60s Elvis films. Word!)

Anywho, none of the items available tell much at all about the drivetrain and chassis of this bus which, presumably, would have been based on a conventional chassis. They only mention the six wheels and the driver's "crow's nest." This appears mainly to have been for visual effect, 'cause it surely must have been a bitch to steer around corners, etc.! Forget about backing up or parking!

So, I am left with a burning desire to see and hear more about this movie-prop leviathan AND to know if it survived, somewhere??? I know, not likely, right? I do want to share an entertaining mini-synopsis about this VERY period flick, plus a link to an actual clip!!! Enjoy!

In this bouncy musical, a sax-playing ex-convict (Raft) joins a swing band and embarks upon a cross-country tour. He does really well until an old friend (Nolan) tries to tempt him into becoming a criminal again. The convict refuses the offer so the "friend" retaliates by doing the job anyway and leaving the con to take the rap. Then the band is kidnapped by a powerful person [get this!] desiring a private concert. The ex-con saves the band by informing on the crook. He is then allowed to play with them again and musical happiness ensues [Ah-h-h-h! A happy ending!]. Songs include: "Would There Be Love," "Let's Spill the Beans," "I Never Had a Man to Cry Over," and "Fagin Youse is a Viper."

Here's a link to a YouTube clip from the movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YyFQgGTHfs