History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Obviously not extinct, but does anyone know what it is? Are there many/any others around or could they have just been a local (to this area) build?

I took the photos, with permission from the owner/driver, at a swapmeet in Toowoomba in February 2009.

I know there is another one here on the Gold Coast. I have not seen it, but there was a write up in the local newspaper a couple of years ago. It was stolen and badly damaged. A local charity group rebuilt it when it was recovered.

I have no idea of a brand name or who built these units. They appear to be based on a Vespa type scooter that has been reworked for a purpose........

 

MrFire, I'd bet five bucks that Larry (VintageWireWorks) would know, if anybody here does. It's amazing, down through the years, just HOW small people have made "cars," isn't it?

 

MrFire, THANKS for a look at that super-keen '38 Maybach! That's
an actual photo at top there? I don't suppose you have access to
any more pix of the actual car? That would be awesome, mate.



As for extinct or extant, WWII and the reconstruction period were so tumltuous, sounds to me as if it would have been a lucky break if the actual car made it through. But, at least, if there is background info, sketches and photos of the prototype, well, at least we have that!

HALF OF THE FUN OF THIS THREAD IS EVERYBODY DIGGING EVERYWHERE THEY CAN TO AT LEAST SEARCH AND TRY TO FIND EVIDENCE OF A SURVIVOR.

In some cases, our searches only seemed to confirm extinction (and/or proof a car never made it to production). But in other cases, we turned up a survivor or two. But, the chase was half the fun, you know?

 

I want to say a heartfelt THANKS to howstuffwo?rks
and the various sources noted below for the great
information, about Robert Paxton McCulloch's personal
dream-car project. This rarely mentioned automobile,
the 1953 Paxton Phoenix, couldn't fly farther under
the publicity radar without a conspiracy. LOL

We've discussed many rare and ultra-rare cars on this
thread, BUT, this one is exceptional -- and in several
respects!!! Here are just a few examples:

(1) This project was by none other than Robert Paxton
McCulloch of Paxton super-charger and McCulloch
chainsaw repute;

(2) styling was by Brooks Stevens, father of the Jeep
Wagoneer and the lovely update of Loewy's
Champion/Hawk for '63 and '64;

(3) the 2,200-pound car was nearly all fiberglass,
right down to the bumpers;

(4) the retractable hardtop covered the trunk lid,
rather than the other way around (!);

(5) as first planned, McCulloch worked with old Abner
Doble toward a practical STEAM engine to power
this coupe!

(6) rear engine and four-wheel independent torsion-
bar suspension.




Here's the unique Paxton Phoenix at the 2008 Pebble Beach Concours de Elegance, as shot by Richard Owen for SuperCars.net!


McCulloch spent over a million dollars on the Phoenix
project in hopes of marketing a practical and beautiful
steam-powered car. He managed to interest Abner
Doble who was only in his early 60s by that time.
Doble was father to, arguably, the BEST -- though far
from the cheapest -- steam car of the 1920s. Though
tests of the 120-horse Doble Ultramax steam plant
developed by McCulloch's Paxton automotive division
on a Ford chassis showed promise, limited capital
ultimately forced McCulloch to install a Porsche four-
banger gas mill instead.

A tad ironically, it became obvious to McCulloch that
he would not be able to hold the sale price of his 'glass
coupe to $10,000; high production costs were a prime
factor in killing Doble's original steam cars! McCulloch
did drive the car now and then. After he died in 1977,
Stevens bought it and kept it in his personal museum,
until his own demise in 1998 when its present owner,
Myron Vernis of Akron, Ohio, took over.


Thanks to HowStuffWo?rks

So, there you have it, folks: a one-of-a-kind fiberglass
coupe of high standards, with a marvelous pedigree --
and only a bit over 600 miles on the odometer! Wow!
AGAIN, to Myron Vernis!

 

Cancelled in '54, the Phoenix rise from the ashes, April 1957!

 

And a nice side-view in action for SuperCars.net by Dirk Jager.
Probably safe to assume this is Myron Vernis at the wheel!
Alright!!! Nothing like knowing your car is one of a kind!

 

I don't know too much more. There are a couple more references that may help or jog someone's memory. As you say, it's the chase.......

The car was built by Dorr & Schreck (not the green one, as far as I know). There are some details of the car here:
http://www.exelerocar.com/project.html

Some photos here:
http://wikicars.org/en/Maybach_W38_Stromlinienfahrzeug

 

A "what if" .........................

Could the 1938 Maybach Excelero have contributed to this Porsche of 1939.



http://www.carsablanca.de/Blechgeschichten/volkswagen-der-volksporsche/bjoern

http://www.carsablanca.de/Bilderstrecke/der-volksporsche#pathway

 

MrFire, I like the way you think! I always love speculating about those "what-ifs." LOL I try not to overdo it, but then what's the harm? If YOU see similarities of a prototype that makes it iNto actual production by, say, another manufacturer, hell, what are you supposed to think?

Let's take the early Volkswagen, which a lot of people (and I mean early on) said crystalized AFTER Ferdinand Porsche visited Paul Lewis in 1937 and saw his Aeromobile? I've seen several illustartions, too, that posed the comparison.

 

BTW, Hitler was LEANING at that time on Ferdinand to come up with a "peoples car" design.

 

Yes. I've seen those comparisons...



http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/02/aerodynamic-marvels.html

and then there is 1934 Mercedes Benz 150 Sport-Limousine, looking VW-ish (and, with a few other makes thrown in)....




http://www.mercedes-seite.de/histor...des-benz-heckmotorfahrzeuge-der-1930er-jahre/

I had best stop. Too much conspiracy theory and not enough extinction.

 

Here is a photo of a 1:4 model of the 1938 Maybach Excelero



"Ein Modell im Maßstab 1:4 des verschollenen Maybach SW 38 Stromlinie, das auf Initiative des Starfotografen Rene Staud anhand von Fotos rekonstruiert wurde. Es ist auf der Retro Classics 2006 in Stuttgart zu sehen." - a model built from photographs.


http://www.automotive.co.at/ireds-38405.html

 

MrFire said: I had best stop. Too much conspiracy theory
and not enough extinction.

Now that's funny, buddy! But, I really think divorcing the human factors from the auto biz makes it all less interesting. The back stories are often fascinating -- some absolute bullshit and many actually true. Stories of conniving, espionage, power plays, outright theft and some real tragedies (e.g., untimely deaths, from Gaston Chev. to Byron Carter, George Keller and George Mason). It's all good and somehow it all fits in, somewhere. Keep it coming.<!-- / message -->

 

Anybody who's punched Stout Scarab into a 'net search
already knows that there is a TON of info out there about this
make -- 10, or LESS, of which were ever produced, from the
1932 conception through 1946!

Though a few pundits dismiss the cars as an oddity, most
thoughtful auto historians and lay journalists alike heap ac-
colades on the Scarab for its many innovative features,
durability and fine handling and smooth performance. The
Scarab is by no means just another face in the crowd of
experimental and show cars of the '30s that came and went
quickly. In fact, Stout, a successful auto and aero engineer
and journalist never INTENDED the Scarab to be a mass-market
vehicle! The fact that it was discontinued after 1946 always
seems, however, to overshadow the influence it exerted upon
the industry's direction and future production automobiles!

The fate of the Scarab had no bearing on the fame of Bill Stout,
as he'd already established a place in history as one of America's
aviation engineering pioneers. His interest in auto design (at
least in the case of the Scarab) seemed more like that of his
contemporary, Fuller, who saw innovative autos for their
possible positive impacts on quality of human life. Lofty?
Yeah. So what?

Now, this post is not about laundry-listing the
attributes of Stout's pioneering cars. MY MOTIVE
is to try and find more about the TENTH Stout Scarab,
finished and first shown in 1946. My brief research
indicates that William Stout made the final Scarab
more "conventional" in appearance, AND the most
noticeable feature was bodywork almost totally in
fiberglass! I read yesterday that the 10th Scarab,
now fully restored, made a lengthy appearance this
year in L.A. at Peterson's as part of an exhibited
titled "Fantasies in Fiberglass." ANY HAMBer OUT
THERE HAPPEN TO ACTUALLY ATTEND THE EXHIBIT?
AND, IF SO, ANY ACTUAL PHOTOS OF THE LAST OF
THE SCARABS?


William Bushnell Stout is pictured discussing details of a Scarab,
fairly typical of the first nine built. THANKS for this great historical
photo go to CarLust!

 

Nicely lighted detail shot , apparently by a photographer
named Furhman. THANKS to CarLust and to M/M Furman!

As indicated, the Scarab was, by design, quite an exclusive vehicle. Ownership was more a matter of invitation than choice -- even if you had the then-ritzy price of $5 Gs! Most of the first nine Scarabs went to Stout company board members, and no two were exactly alike. Celebrities lucky enough to own a Scarab included the names Wrigley (chewing gum, Wrigley Field), Firestone (tire magnate), Strahan (Champion spark plugs) and Dow (chemicals).

But Stouts were not pampered cream puffs, by any means! Eisenhower used one during WWII in North Africa, then the car was inherited for staff-car use by Gen. Charles DeGaulle. One Scarab odometer was verified to have logged over 150,000 miles, and another, restored, recently participated in two U.S. transcontinental races. Stout's personal Scarab logged over 250,000 miles traveling around the country -- at a then-respectable 19 mpg. Most Scarabs were driven so much, in fact, they were simply worn out. And two, a '36 and the '46, are said to have been used at one point during retirement as, respectively, a monkey house and a chicken coop! Only five are believed extant, and one gentleman is said to own TWO of them!

Here's a rarely seen rear view with details highlighted
by favorable lighting, THANKS to HowStuffWor?ks !
​

Thanks IndiaCar.com for this tiny illustration
which does serve to show that the Scarab was
probably the first auto truly with an emphasis
upon interior utility and flexibility. In fact,
many industry analysts consider it to be the
forerunner of the mini-van.

 

Rare Plaidside Willys-Knights appearing at AACA Museum this week



Each year, it seems there is more to see during what has become affectionately known as meet week. Although the AACA Eastern Fall Meet in Hershey, Pennsylvania, officially kicks off this year on Wednesday, you can always arrive a little early and stop by the AACA Museum on Route 39, just one mile from the swap meet fields, to check out their newest short-duration exhibit of two rare Willys-Knights.

Through Thursday, a 1930 Great Six Plaidside Phaeton – one of only three 66-B Phaetons ever built – will join a Great Six Plaidside Roadster; only the single phaeton and nine such roasters are known to exist. It should be noted that the phaeton is the car that appeared at the New York Auto Show when new. Both are currently under the care of cinematographer Al Giddings.



In anticipation of higher volume, the AACA Museum has once again
expanded it hours during meet week: 9 a.m. – 5 p.m. through Wednesday; 9 a.m. – 9 p.m. Thursday through Saturday; 9 a.m. – 5 p.m. on Sunday. More information can be found at www.aacamuseum.org, or by calling 717-566-7100.

 

You have to be pretty good to sell any idea to Henry Ford,
and Stout got enthusiastic backing from Ford, resulting in
199 Ford TriMotor high-wing planes being built in Ford
facilities from 1926 through mid-1933. Shown here is the
first TriMotor. Versatile and flexible, these were dubbed
the "Tin Goose" because of Stout's all-metal design. Three
Pratt-Whitney radial engines were employed.



A production-version TriMotor, in Navy dress at Pensacola NAS,
1938. TriMotors continued to see service throughout the world
for many decades.

 

Up for Auction at Hershey this week.

http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=HF10&CarID=r186

 

Wow, Jim. Hey, in your previous coverage of this one-of-a-kind Bergholt, did you already include details of how he did it. I.e., ground-up did he build everything, or did he put it on a popular style chassis?

AND, I'd definitely say that IF Chrysler/DeSoto had made their more affordable Airflows this nice looking, it would probably have changed the direction -- and looks -- of ALL future MoPars. Whadaya think? Heck I always love to wonder .... Hmmmm??? WHAT IF.......

 

Geez, it's a good thing my Grandad never caught up with those. He loved Willys-Knights ........................as fodder to convert to UTE's. He would cut the body off behind the front seat, put flat metal sheet across just to hold the body together and then ..... a UTE back made mainly from 4"x1" hardwood. (No photos were taken of any of these).

I remember when I was quite young, getting into one of these "conversions". It was in the driveway. Grandad started it up and it caught fire. We bailed out and stood and watched as it burned out. He left it there until for a few days until it cooled down, then he hitched his two Clydesdales to the remains and dragged the remnants down the street to his farm.
I have no recollection of what happened to it after that, but it was one extinct Willys-Knight.

 

The Eastern Michigan Motorbuses 24 seaters from Gar Wood Industries - 1935:




http://autohistory.blog.hu/2008/09/12/ordogfioka_es_szkarabeusz_william_b_stout_autoi

 

A possible "extinct" - Frua 600 7-seater:



http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/un-solved-mysteries/the-frua-minivan-mystery.html

 

MrFire, Post 3898 is a treasure of someone's REAL memories! Thanks for including it here. I'd say the Willys Knight was, er,uh, well, TOAST! Great oral history, brother!

 

Last verified update about Sonia Henies Cord 810!

I got info from an Cord owner/fantast, clearifying the roomers about it has been seen on some museums storages, get together meets, etc.

The Sonia Henie Cord was parted out by the metalschredder in the 60´s by a company called Nils Takst a/s in Oslo (metal/wreck yard)
Witnesses did see the car get schredded, because no more space for storage. A few parts are yet back, the cowl, and some other small parts.
This is verified by a neighbor of the owner of the belived Sonia Cord who some meant they had been seen different locations in Norway.
The Cords who has been seen in Norway the last "decade", (at car dealer in Askim) was a 1937 Custom Beverly ,earlier owned by the guy leaving this info to me.
The car who was seen at Horten Bilmuseum, is his now Cord Beverly 1936 model. This car was belived to be the still "living" Sonias Cord, hided away, not much shown.

So, now this is cleared out, Sonia Henies Cord 810 are back to nails...and ads saying this is the car, is just to make more money, and are scams!

regards Roger

 

Folks, I guess I blew the HELP whistle a little too quickly yesterday. In the afTernoon, I ran onto a GOOD pic of the tenth and FINAL Stout Scarab from 1946. It was on FlickR, and I send my sincere THANKS to them, so that we can SEE the car. No details appeared with the pic, but I think those were fairly well covered yesterday, too.

To SEE how much more conventional the style of the post-war Scarab really was, you can compare it with a photot ohanging on the back wall in this same picture! It's still a Scarab, yes, but QUITE a contrast, no?

And, oh yeah! This is a ONE-OF-A-KIND CAR!

 

It's hard to put into words just how prolific an inventor William Stout was. Some of his ideas might get categorized as crackpot stuff today, but many concepts are still applied in today's vehicles and planes. Following is JUST an excerpt from Coachbuilt! Read the whole fascinating profile at their site:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/des/s/stout_william/stout_william.htm

Stout was a critic of the teardrop form adopted by Fuller and Bel Geddes. According to Stout, the effect of cross-winds on a true teardrop is to create a vacuum on the lea-side. Unlike an airplane, an automobile needs to stay on the road, and cannot afford to drift sideways to compensate in the presence of crosswinds. Therefore, according to Stout (who was Fuller's friend) streamlined vehicles ought to resemble turtles, crabs or beetles, rather than birds or fish.

xxxx

Stout Motor Car Corp & Engineering Lab - 2124 S. Telegraph St. Dearborn, MI
William B. Stout, inventor of tri-motor airplane, also designed and built Scarab Automobile in Dearborn. The Scarab was aerodynamic vehicle with a rear engine mount. In 1945, Owen Corning, working with William Stout, developed the Stout-Scarab auto. This prototype, which never made it into production, was the first car with a FRP (Fiberglass-Reinforced Plastic) body.
Stout Engineering was incorporated in 1929. Initially the lab was devoted to aeronautics work but in 1932 Stout decided to build a car employing the latest technology. The Stout Motor Car Corp. was established in 1934. Stout named his car the "Scarab" because "like the Egyptian Beetle it had an exoskeleton". The Scarab debuted in 1935. Only 9 of these unusual looking cars were built between 1932-1939 but their influence far outstripped their meager production.
​

A very telling pic of Stout at work in 1943 on his Skycar,
which went through several versions ('31-'44).

Read the whole Greenberg article from MODERN MECHANICS at:
William B. Stout and his Wonderful &#8220;SKYCAR&#8221;
blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/07/24/william-b-stout-an...


Skycar II, THANKS to aerofiles.com! Fred Fisher of GM lent a hand
on this one. Landing gear had four wheels, with roadability in mind,
though a road version wasn't achieved. Extinct; destroyed in a hangar
fire.


​

 

From the link included with post 3899 - photo of William B.

http://autohistory.blog.hu/2008/09/12/ordogfioka_es_szkarabeusz_william_b_stout_autoi

 

Wow, great catch, MrFire! Keen pic! As much as I like pix of rare cars, all shiny and well-lit, I love action shots even better. THANKS again!

 

Toyota A1/AA - extinct?


1935 Toyota A1 prototype.




A better depiction.








1936 Toyota AA (replica)


..................................................








http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/2009/12/03/long-lost-toyota-toyoda-aa-discovered-in-russia/

This was found in recently Russia. As far as I know it is not confirmed as authentic.

..........................................

Of the 1404 built over 9 years from 1936 -

"The 1936 Toyoda AA was Toyota’s first production car. Even in its time, it was rare — only 1404 were reportedly built during its nine year lifespan. In 1980 Toyota sought to restore an original AA, but failed to locate any remaining vehicles.
Instead, they raided the archives and tracked down retired employees that had actually worked on the originals. Keep in mind, 50 years had gone by and many of the employees had already passed away. It took six years to finish the project and the handful of cars that emerged are now on display in various museums in Japan."

.

 

MrFire,now THAT is fascinating stuff. I have been repeatedly amazed in researching things for this thread: A make or model might be in production for a decade -- even two -- and fifty years later, you find maybe one, plus a partial parts car!

The Spaulding of Iowa and the Luverne of Minnesota are two that pop to mind.

BTW, this Toyota wasn't the only model mimicing an American model, was it? I seem to remember Graham or some other independent even assisting a Japanese company to create a "new" car for that market.