History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

"1901 Toledo owned by Tim Watson driven by John Watson"

http://www.steamcar.net/l-b-2006.html





"Jim Gregory's and David Furnell's 1901 Toledo 6.25hp"

http://www.steamcar.net/george-hounslow.html

 

The tight padded "cabriolet" top or "boot" in European vernacular (to keep everyone warm in winter) give the cars quite a bit of class.

 

Does Jay Leno have a Tucker yet?

Yes, there are some people who have deep enough pockets and enough passion to restore it. But as much as I would love a Tucker, they are so far out of my price range, and are now a rich mans plaything. This one appears to be a major restoration, and yes, I suppose Just about anything can be re-created these days. There is a guy in LeRoy NY who restores cars and creates masterpieces out of rusted junk. I know what some people can do, but that doesn't make it economically feasible.
I imagine this car may bounce around between a few speculators, hoping to make a profit.

I have always been interested in the Tucker. My father supposedly put down a deposit on ordering one back then. Last Sunday, just picked up a binder full of paper memorabilia on the Tucker, mostly Tucker Club newsletters, but pretty neat stuff.

 

I just noticed that, with AJ's post, this year-old thread
has drawn 4,000 posts, 200 pages and 200,000 views.
I guess folks LIKE trying to determine rarity and extinction
status!

Anyway, before we get away from Tucker, I wanted to share
some Tucker pix I myself hadn't seen before Harm'sWay posted
these last month over on the "Vintage Shots From Days Gone By"
thread. At least TWO appear to have been taken during Preston's
defending against fraud charges.


Keen little publicity stunt here, demo'ing the rear engine setup.


Seems this was mimicked in the movie, wasn't it?


The man himself. A case of "close, but no cigar." A shame, IMHO!


And to celebrate Paragraph #1, I'm recapping one of THE WILDEST
pix we've had on this thread! For REAL, a used Tucker on a car lot!!!
RoadKillontheWeb posted this pic 1/30/10 of a Tucker in '54 on a
Berkeley, CA, used car lot (Post #2130, "Everybody Loves a Dare!").

 

Bob Held Berkeley Auto Mart at 2525 Shattuck Ave in Berkeley. They only used the BE7-7474 number for 7 months from June to December of 1954. Beginning in 1955 all BE7 numbers in Berkeley were changed to TH5 numbers. There is a 1952 Jaguar XK120 coupe and a somewhat rare 1953 Hillman Minx Convertible in the second picture. Both were both advertised for sale by Bob Held Berkeley Auto Mart.

 

Tucker Torpedo NASCAR



http://blog.niot.net/blog-images/30...rticipated-in-nascar-in-the-early-fifties.jpg

 

http://wizbangpop.com/2009/12/27/rare-tucker-automobile-prototypes.php











http://www.robidaconcepts.com/albums/album_image/2648005/1372919.htm





http://www.gen-auto.ca/tucker.html





http://www.kustomrama.com/index.php?title=Tucker




http://detnews.com/article/20090610/AUTO05/906100401/Tucker-s-automotive-vision-stands-test-of-time

 

"What happened to the one Tucker known to be in Brazil, and is the legend of a second Tucker in Brazil true?"


http://sites.google.com/site/tuckerfan/

 

http://sancoinspassionmoteur.xooit.com/t148-TUCKER-STORY.htm

 

http://m.blog.hu/au/autohistory/image/Tucker/tucker.jpg

 

Does anyone have a photo of this car from the rear? I have several photos at different tracks but all from the front. Joe Merola drove this car at several events in 1950 including an early Nascar (or what became nascar) event at Canfield OH.

The Tucker was sponsored by a used car dealer. After years of searching for this dealer I recently discovered what is now obvious that the dealer was located at 12 Charles St, Mt Oliver, Pittsburgh PA. Charles St is only two blocks long in the Mt. Oliver neighborhood. Many of the buildings in that area have been there long before 1950. There are only one or two possible locations where a car lot could have been on Charles St and one of them is 12 Charles St.

The paint job on the drivers side of the car is reversed so that it reads the same way as the passenger side.

I would like to find out the used car dealers name. Maybe someone happens to have a photo of the rear of the car where the name is painted or they live near a library in Pittsburgh with a 1948 reverse directory.

 

From this site: http://petcaretips.net/deere-experiment-tractor.html comes......

The Melvin Tractor - extinct?




The Sklovsky Tractor - extinct?




The Brown Motor Cultivator - extinct?




The Twin City Model 40 - extinct?



http://www.farmcollector.com/Steam-Engines/Gone-like-the-Buffalo.aspx

 

Tucker #1035 is still in The São Paulo Museum of Antiquities Mechanical in Caçapava, São Paulo, Brazil. It is located on Avenue Mal. Castelo Branco about ½ mile west of downtown Caçapava. The Museum has been closed since 1975. If you are looking for barn finds this would be the place however heavy looting has caused a lot of damage to many of the cars. The Tucker is still safe. Here is the latest picture.

 

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1925 Hudson Brougham built specially for Ty Cobb, THANKS [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]to motorcities.com. As I understand, this car was auctioned [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]two years ago. [/FONT]

 

Now, I have to ask everybody for a common-sense take here!
Do the CONTINUED efforts of Preston Tucker -- right up 'til his
death in '56 -- SEEM TO YOU like the work of a man bent on
scamming people???

Sorry, I suppose it's really a rhetorical question on my part, folks!

 

Looks like the Walter Peck character in "Ghost Busters" here!
But seriously, who is it, and what's he lecturing about?
<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

 

I don't think he was trying to scam people, but I can't think of a tougher industry to break into then the auto industry. Historically, "technically advanced" has not been what made great car businesses. Think more along the lines of Model T, VW bug or even the Chrysler K car. It was more about efficient and economical manufacturing then whiz bang features.

Plus, - and don't hate me - the car is ugly.

 

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Tucker loved the limelight. Not exactly Al Capone!



A couple of more shots from that French site.

 

Notice the central-grille treatment on the Tucker illustrated at right. Seems, yes, they were selling stock for capital, even before the exact shape of the product had been nailed down. Yup, edging out on the ol' limb there!


<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

And from that same French site, apparently some of the accessories Tucker
Corp. sold IN ADVANCE to raise capital to build the actual cars. This is the
disputed (by SOME anyway) one-off convertible Preston is said to have had
the boys working up in SEMI-secrecy within his plant. Some accounts say
that, for many Tucker employees, it was an "open" secret!

 

Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by jimi'shemi291
Now, I have to ask everybody for a common-sense take here!
Do the CONTINUED efforts of Preston Tucker -- right up 'til his
death in '56 -- SEEM TO YOU like the work of a man bent on
scamming people???

Sorry, I suppose it's really a rhetorical question on my part, folks!

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
AlsAncle said: I don't think he was trying to scam people, but I can't think of a tougher industry to break into then the auto industry. Historically, "technically advanced" has not been what made great car businesses. Think more along the lines of Model T, VW bug or even the Chrysler K car. It was more about efficient and economical manufacturing then whiz bang features.

Plus, - and don't hate me - the car is ugly.

Jimi: AJ, no problem there, man! One of the things that's (I think) made this thread work so well is that people are encouraged to speak their minds without others ganging up on them. Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, and there's room for everything but bullshit (ah, who knows? Maybe we get a little of THAT in here, too! LOL).

One the one hand, THANKS for saying Tucker was NOT a chiseler. It makes me madder than hell to hear people say that when they haven't honestly read up on the details. Seems funny to me that some people would never believe OJ killed Nicole and Ron, but they would peg Preston Tucker as a cheat.

As for the first-gen Tucker 48 being ugly? That's okay. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (I even think the middle headlamp works). But some people probably didn't like the '35/6 Auburn speedsters either.




And how about the '49 Nash Airflyte? Now there's style!
(Actually designed with wind tunnel work and good gas
mileage for the era, though!) One of Nash's best-selling
series, EVER. And the called the Packard "pregnant
elephant"?

 

Historically, "technically advanced" has not been what made
great car businesses. Think more along the lines of Model T,
VW bug or even the Chrysler K car. It was more about efficient
and economical manufacturing then whiz bang features.

AJ, IMO, IF THERE WERE TO BE ONE PARAGRAPH CHISELED IN
STONE OUT OF ALL THE MILLIONS OF WORDS FROM THIS THREAD,
YOUR PARAGRAPH, ABOVE, WOULD BE THE BIG ENCHILADA!

Take the most "successful" post-war startup company, Kaiser-
Frazer. Joe & Henry stuck with proven parts and technologies --
not much razzle dazzle there! Keeping it basic is what helped
them to be one of the FIRST with a NEW car for the buying public
right after the war.

Here's K-F razzle dazzle!


<!-- / message -->

 

"This is the disputed (by SOME anyway) one-off convertible Preston is said to have had the boys working up in SEMI-secrecy within his plant. Some accounts say that, for many Tucker employees, it was an "open" secret! "

You are correct about the disputed part, but it is not just by some. Anyone thats knows anything about a Tucker will tell you this car was never built at the factory. There were only 50 cars plus the prototype built at the plant. There were 8 additional unfinished bodies. That is not a lot of cars to keep track of. Since every finished car was a prototype the Tucker Corporation had boxes of records on each car and each part. Those records still exist in the hands of collectors and at the Tucker Club Historical Library. There is not a single piece of paper anywhere the supports this car being built as a convertible.

The present owners own "expert" finally admitted that the car was not hidden away in Chicago as their story said but was under the grandstand at the Michigan State Fair in 1966 with the Nick Jenin Collection. Jenin used the frame and firewall in his traveling Tucker Show as a display. It is one of the unfinished bodies, #1057, that sat in a field in Illinois for many years rusting away. Jenin bought it and cut what was left of the body off and reinforced the frame so that he could use it in his show. Tucker frames were welded to the bodies so by themselves they were not very strong. In order to hold up as a display piece it would have needed to be reinforced. In a May 1964 ad for his collection, Jenin referred to it only as a "chassis" but made a big deal about having the prototype 589 motor. If he had the one and only convertible wouldn't he have called it more than a "chassis"? Jenin was friends with many of the people that later became charter members of the Tucker Club. He corresponded with them often. Many of those letters are now in the Tucker Historical Library. Nowhere did he ever mention owning the only Tucker convertible.

There are photos of all 8 bodies at the plant LONG after it was closed including body #1057 sitting in the design shop exactly as it was described by former Tucker employees.

Their factory crate motor #335-39 with zero miles is documented in several places, not as a factory crate motor, but as the original motor in Tucker #1044. Early owners of #1044 verified that motor #335-39 was in the car and shared that information with other Tucker owners. The motor was replaced during a mid 70s restoration. The former owner of the parts that the convertible was made from has verified that he bought engine #335-39 from the person that did the restoration on Tucker #1044.

The car is a nice tribute car. It was probably not a bad use for a bunch of left over parts. There just are no documents anywhere that show it was started at the Tucker Corporation yet there are documents about every single part that was ever designed there.

Tucker #1045 recently sold for $1,127,500.00 but yet there is no interest for the one and only convertible after nearly two years. That should tell you something. If the car was real collectors would have grabbed it long ago.

 

Here is an original Tucker DEALERSHIP promotional brochure that is on eBay right now for a Buy-It-Now. I think it's interesting for several reasons. Tucker was just starting to make cars, SO they were -- at first -- only able to allot one per dealership, for show. Some dealerships still had NO car to show when the operation got tied up in court action.

Second, I had not previously seen actual Tucker literature affirming marketing of the '48 as a "SAFETY" car. This piece shows the windshield popping out in a collision, as well as the "crash compartment" on the passenger side of the front seat (stupid idea, actually). Also, the perimeter frame, and trunk up front, would appear to be what we'd call today "crush zones."

 

That is an actual 1948 brochure. There are many reprints floating on E-Bay that are passed off as originals. Royal A. Jensen owned Jensen Trude LaCrosse Tucker Sales.

 

Quote, TuckerFan48: "Tucker #1045 recently sold for $1,127,500.00 but yet there is no interest for the one and only convertible after nearly two years. That should tell you something. If the car was real collectors would have grabbed it long ago." <!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->


Posted (#1996) January 25, 2010, on this thread.

The controversial Tucker convertible was a no-sale at Russo and Steele's Scottsdale auction Sunday night. Bidding reached $1.4 million on the one-off Tucker, but car owner Justin Cole apparently was unwilling to lift the reserve and the sale stalled. The reserve was rumored to be $1.5 million.

Jimi: So, somebody really was willing to pay at least $1.4 million. Maybe that tells us all that some (myself included) feel the story may hold water.

In all honesty, I think there is no definitive way for anyone to know for certain. But I think it says a lot about interest in Tucker's post-war effort. An, as you said, at least it's a nice "tribute" car, if no more than that, right?

 

Hey Jimi-

The trouble with "Reserve" auctions is you don't know who is bidding up to the reserve. Just sayin'. When your're bidding 1.4 what's another 100K unless-- Just sayin'. Has it come up on auction again? I'd rather see one of those 'glass ones cut up than see an original steel body cut up no matter how bad it was.

Creditability factor- Just sayin'

I agree with Tucker Fan 48.

 

Everyone at that Scottsdale auction saw the same thing. There was no person that bid 1.4 million. The auction companies will many times drive the price up to near the reserve to see if there is any interest. There was no person or persons bidding against each other. There was no phone bidder either. Just crickets.

If you've been to an auction and there are real people bidding you will usually see them an there is usually an auction company employee standing right next to them. At 1.4 million there probably would have been more than one trying to push him to the reserve. Besides if there was a 1.4 million dollar bid, Russo & Steele could have dropped their commission to cover the difference and made a deal. I'm sure they would have rather walked away for a small commission then none at all.

It is a very nice tribute car. There is a definitive way to know if it is what they say it is. It is called documentation. Nearly every part Tucker ever built is accounted for. The company went into receivership. Even in 1949 they took inventories. There are copies of all of them. I have personally seen them and many of them are online at the Tucker Club site. There are photos and documents that show where the parts were and who owned them before they appeared as a convertible.

Throughout history there were people that said the earth is flat. I am not a scientist but I have seen pictures of the earth taken from space. It shows the earth is round. I've read books by scientists that say it is round. I have not seen any evidence from anyone that the earth is flat so I took all the evidence that was available and concluded that the earth is round. I'm still open to someone stepping forward with something that shows the earth is flat. If they do I may change my mind. Until then I'll stick with a round earth and no convertible. It is really just that simple.

 

Guys, I'm not even saying that Justin Cole thinks his car is a "legit" factory Tucker "convertible", only that he believes it started as a convertible attempt in the Tucker plant. And he shows written material and other ephemera that seem to offer provenance that some Tucker employees were aware that a side project (what we'd call R&D in a modern plant, I suppose) had been taking place. Whether anyone -- Justin included -- cut up an original Tucker metal body, I cannot say. But, if it were a fiberglass body, we wouldn't be having this duscussion.

As I said in #4023, I do believe the story has plausibility -- in particular, when you consider all the things Preston stated that he envisioned. I think my words were that I think the convertible R&D thing "holds water." What that means is that I think Justin Cole's hope that such a project was going on internally at Tucker really is plausible.

It is important that I address the matter of an inventory being done commensurate with the receivership proceedings. Is it possible that some short cuts may have been taken?

HJManiac (Mike) and I are friends, as is AJ. As I told AJ earlier today, I don't hate or demonize anyone for disagreeing with me. We've disagreed before and are still friends. I don't say Preston Tucker completed a convertible. I don't say Justin's convertible is factory made, only that I am convinced it could have been a legit side (uncompleted and steel) project of Tucker's mind, in the factory.

Hey, at least I am not saying there is a Loch Ness Monster, nor that OJ didn't kill his wife and her friend.

 

You know, the Cole car just has to get filed in our "NEVER WUZ" category, until somebody (if ever) produces definitive proof Preston built a convertible, or got a good start on one. There is just TOO much that we do not know.

Like the cars that never made it off the drawing board, maybe this is one of those cars that some of us wonder about: "What if?"