History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Vision of cars of the future in 1948
http://www.wimp.com/futurecars/

 

Zust -



http://www.forum-auto.com/automobiles-mythiques-exception/section5/sujet377390-1225.htm


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The Zust crossing the Mississippi River at Fulton, Illinois in March, 1908

http://www.greatracezust.com/

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Great article on ZUST:
http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/u...mystery-see-read-more-for-updates-001711.html



http://img.prewarcar.com/prewar/cars/Zust_500RB.jpg

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"The cars included a DeDion, a Motobloc,
a Sizaire-Naudin, a Zust, a Protos and the Thomas Flyer."

http://www.newyorktoparisrace2008.com/history.html

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Zust (??)



"The Italian entry taken at Lisbon, Iowa."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolibrarian/

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http://motorsnaps.com/d/26794-3/1908++Zust+in+Ames+Iowa.jpg

http://motorsnaps.com/key/Classic+car?g2_page=37

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http://www.zazzle.com.au/yesterdaysgirl/1900s+gifts?cg=196122697708747270



http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/m/m1WyEY6KgR-yjin9Fs7mcbw/140.jpg

 

Another one of those convoluted mysteries, but surely very rare
or even extinct: the Lutzman. Different sources seem to use two n's
in the Lutzmann name, which seems the more reliable spelling. (For
me at least, a slight further complication is that there was an 1898
steamer called the Lutz, though I could find no further facts.) Sheesh.

First, I ran onto the B/W photo on an AACA forum, ID'd as an 1896
Lutzmann. I was intrigued by the springing up front, as well as what
appears to be a steering WHEEL instead of a tiller. But the cutline with
the photo confused me, as it seemed to portray the Lutzman as Amer-
ican made, which seemed very unlikely.

All I could find was info that Fredrich Lutzmann, a German wheelwright
and engineer, followed very closely upon the heels of Benz and Daimler,
building several models (closely resembling the Benz cars), in 1893,
1894 and 1896. They were called Pfeil but seem to have been well
known, too, by the Lutzman name.

Then in 1898, Lutzmann sold his patents and designs to Opel, which
made them from 1899 as the Opel system Lutzmann. For accuracy's
sake, I kept the wording of the AACA cutline verbatim, so please be
the judge.



J. A. Koosen and H. Lawson in a 1895 Lutzmann. This is typical of
American design in the mid 1890's. It was truly a horseless carriage.
Tiller steering, engine under the floorboards, very high center of gravity,
not designed for road travel. Imagine climbing into one of these and
trying to drive across town and around a few corners. Kind of scary,
huh?



From flickr, supposedly an 1890 Opel Lutzman 1/43 model. Same
thing on Amazon was ID'd as an 1899, which seems more likely.

 

The photo with Koosen and Lawson on board - 1895 Lutzmann
......................

An early photo



http://1m1f.com/Motorwagen/

AND VIDEO -

http://1m1f.com/video/lUw8uRRajLY/Opel-Patent-Motorwagen-System-Lutzmann-1899.html



................................
1896 Lutzmann





http://www.motorsnaps.com/key/Classic+car?g2_page=3

"Lutzmann with 4 seat vis-a-vis coachwork, photo taken on the 2010 London-Brighton run."

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"Like many of its contemporaries, the first Opel automobile, the Patent Motorwagen Lutzmann from 1899, resembled a horse carriage. Wilhelm and his brother Fritz took over the motorcar factory belonging to a Dessau entrepreneur named Freidrich Lutzmann."

The 1898 Opel System Lutzmann.

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-42909-3.html

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1899 Lutzmann (?)



http://www.flickr.com/photos/84744892@N00/sets/72157601530762499/

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1900 Opel Lutzmann 2 Seater



http://www.flickr.com/photos/18079574@N00/3003325780/

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http://www.autoviva.com/img/makes/66/lutzmann_sqr131_1366.gif

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"1895 Lutzmann specification
Engine: single-cylinder 2540 cc (140 x 165 mm) water cooled mounted horizontally at the rear. Gearbox: 2- speed. Transmission was by a countershaft belt, with chain final drive."

http://www.guygriffiths.co.uk/prints_AB3.htm

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Captioned - Heinrich Opel in an 1899 Lutzmann Arrow





http://www.gmphotostore.com/Opel-Heritage/products/1276/

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Nice going, Graham! I still find the Lutzmann FRONT spring setup a thing of wonder!


................................
1896 Lutzmann





http://www.motorsnaps.com/key/Classic+car?g2_page=3

 

Rare Squire to be shown at Retromobile

Courtesy of David LaChance of Hemmings

All images courtesy Tim Scott/Fluid Images



The Squire Motor Car Co. began operations in 1935 and went out of business 18 months later, having built just 10 cars. Yet the cars generated enthusiasm far beyond their production numbers, becoming legendary for their delicate beauty, first-rate build quality and purposeful character.

The unrestored Squire that Fiskens, the British historic vehicles dealer, plans to unveil at Retromobile in Paris today is chassis 1501, one of the two long-wheelbase cars built by the Henley-on-Thames firm. Like all Squires, it is powered by a supercharged British Anzani DOHC 1.5-liter four, rated at 105 hp.



According to Fiskens, 1501 has been hidden away from view for the past 30 years. It was originally bought by Val Zethrin, who would later buy the entire company from its young founder, Adrian Morgan Squire. The car was later bought by one Doreen Gibson, whom Fiskens says sold it to its third, and current, owner at some point after World War II.

After studying electrical engineering in London, Adrian Squire apprenticed with Bentley and, later, MG, before opening his own garage. He began realizing his longtime dream of building his own cars in early 1934, when he founded the Squire Car Manufacturing Co. with two associates. The Squire had an extremely sturdy channel section frame, stiffened with two separate X-braces. Suspension was by semi-elliptic springs, with Houdaille hydraulic shock absorbers fitted as standard equipment.



Though the engine was marked with the Squire name, it was produced by Anzani to Squire’s specifications. Its design included hemispherical combustion chambers and twin camshafts, which were driven by helical gears. The cast-iron block held the crankshaft in three main bearings. A Roots supercharger provided a maximum boost of 10 PSI. There was no radiator fan, but there were two water pumps, each driven off the end of a camshaft. The gearbox was a preselector unit by ENV or Wilson.



Bodies were constructed by Vanden Plas, Markham of Reading and Ranalah, which built the four-seat body on the 123-inch chassis of the Fiskens car. Priced at 1,200 pounds, the Squire was hugely expensive for a 1-1/2-liter car; Adrian Squire eventually slashed the price to 795 pounds, but still could not generate enough sales to keep the company going. After building seven chassis, he sold the company to Zethrin, under whom Squire produced three more chassis.

Fiskens’ managing director, Gregor Fisken, said: “It’s an honor for Fiskens to offer such a rare and highly sought-after automobile. It’s been a bit of an ambition of mine as we’ve never sold one before. It’s so rare for a Squire to come on the market. and it’s probably the last opportunity for anyone to secure such an amazing unrestored example.”

 

I'd like to add what I've recently learned about the Continental Motor Company and their venture into car production.

A recap. The DeVaux Company owed Continental Motors $500,000 when it went under. Continental was building a private-labeled engine labeled as Hall, a partner in DeVaux. Continental bought the assets for $40,000 and forgave half the debt. Continental built out the remaining sheet-metal on wood buck bodies as DeVaux-Continentals as they installed their famous Red Dot engines.



In 1933 Continental came out with a line of small, semi-luxurious, stylish cars in three luxury levels, corresponding to size. There was the 4-cylinder 101"wb Beacon in 4 body styles and a 107" Flyer with a much more powerful 6-cylinder Red Dot engine available in 2-door, 4 door, Business coupe and Roadster. The luxury offering was the 4-door Ace at 114" and a bigger engine. Many have tried to convince me that the Roadster was just a marketing ploy and that none existed. Until today, the only proof I had was that there were Continental Roadsters listed in the 1930's Kelly Blue Book. Some said that it was common for Kellys to list information that manufacturers gave them, without much depth. I don't know about that. Here are the only representations I've seen of the Roadster. In all my searching I had ever seen a photograph of one, only drawings.



A friend of a friend in Australia sent me pictures of a distressed, but fairly complete 1933 Continental 4-door Flyer, just like mine. Well, almost just like mine. As I've gathered information for a Continental Registry I found that there were a number of RHD Continentals in NZ and AU. He posted pictures. His car was very, very similar to mine, but different in some respects.



I noticed a big difference in the body line. It was double in the rear where mine had a single body line.



I also noticed that his door handles were in the body line while mine are on the flat of the door. Further scrutiny confirmed that his car had 3 hinges on the front door, while all others that I've seen had only two. I noticed that the car from New Zealand had a body like mine, but the Australian body was different. I thought maybe he got a prototype, or something.

Further discussion led me to an Australian newspaper data base called Trove, which proved to be a treasure trove of information about Continental in Australia. http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=beacon+continental

I learned why his car looked different. About the time this car was built the Australian government was very protective of its auto industry as they were hard hit by the Depression, too. They enacted a content law. Requirements were from 43-50% local content.

Apparently, Continental would ship complete running chassis, fenders hood grill & cowl, less the passenger compartment, to a company called TJ Richards, where the cars were completed and sold to the Australian public as an American car from the producer of the world's most prolific engine producer. They were slightly different from what the US was offered, and were not all-steel bodies like the Hayes-supplied bodies. In 1933 the Continental Motor Company had already produced 3,500,000 engines for the aviation, commercial and automotive field and it's dealers in Australia played on that fact.

If TJ Richards built it there would be tags in prominent places. That remains to be seen when he gets the car out of storage.



Pictures of Richards body shop in action.

http://www.pictureaustralia.org/apps/pictureaustralia?action=PASearch&mode=subject&complete1=true&attribute1=subject&term1=T.J.+Richards+and+Sons+%28Firm%29

What finally convinced me was this 1934 picture of an Australian-bodied Continental Flyer with the radically altered front end.



Some Aussie ads.

 

Squire -




<CENTER style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px">"The Squire was not made in any very great numbers, But it was a super sports car with an idealistic specification, built at Remenham near Henley-on-Thames in the mid-1930s. The engine was a twin o.h.c. 1 1/2 litre 4-cylinder based on the R.I. Anzani and supercharged with a roots blower behind the radiator, with four extended drop exhaust pipes. Cooling was by pump and there was a ribbed oil- cooler between the dumb irons. The 105 bhp. engine drove through a Wilson pre-selector gearbox, the bottom gear band of which constituted the clutch, and there were extremely large hydraulic brakes. The Squire would lap Brooklands comfortably at over 100 mph., being capable of 52 mph in second gear, 76 mph. in third gear and of doing 10-70 mph in 15 seconds, and was made in short-and long wheelbase form, the long chassis accommodated Vanden Plas touring bodywork. The inclined radiator enhanced the appearance of this low-build car, of which a single seater was raced at the Track. Naturally such an advanced specification allied to production in very limited numbers necessitated high prices; the short chassis model cost £950 without bodywork in 1935, the long chassis £975.
Layout.Front engine / rear wheel drive.
Chassis. Cruciform braced frame.
Engine. 4 I.L. W.C. D.O.H.C. 1469c.c. Transmission.4 speed & reverse, Wilson preselector.
Suspension front. Beam axle /1/2 elliptic.
Suspension rear. Live axle /1/2 elliptic.
Steering.
Brakes front. 15inch drums.
Brakes rear. 15inch drums.
Weight.
Wheelbase. 8ft 6inches.
Engine output. 105 bhp.
@ R.P.M."

http://lightauto.com/forfun3.html

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http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2102/Squire-1500-Vanden-Plas-Sports-Tourer.html

"Serial X103 was the second of three prototypes built using the taller and longer over-slung chassis. It was fitted with a particularly attractive Vanden Plas body. The car was sold new to G.F.A. 'Jock' Manby-Colegrave, who was one of the company founders. X103 moved to the United States in the 1950s and disappeared in a locked storage twenty years later. It eventually resurfaced and was offered in the 2001 Bonhams & Brooks Quail Lodge auction. The car attracted a lot of attention and eventually sold for $145,000, which was triple the low estimate. Now part of a prominent collection, it is seen here during the 2004 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance."
</CENTER>
Information and more detailed vehicle specifications on this link:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2102/Squire-1500-Vanden-Plas-Sports-Tourer.html

................................
In addition to Vanden Plas there were Squire -

With the Corsica body:





http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/thumbs/4681/Squire-1500-Corsica-Roadster_1.jpg

With the Markham body:



http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/thumbs/4680/Squire-1500-Markham-Roadster_2.jpg

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1980's Kennedy-Squire reproduction



http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auc...dens-1262/1989Kennedy-SquireSports-32442.aspx








<CENTER>
</CENTER>

 

Forgot - Squire Vannden Plas 2-seater



http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/thumbs/2102/Squire-1500-Vanden-Plas-Sports-Tourer_1.jpg

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2102/Squire-1500-Vanden-Plas-Sports-Tourer.html

 

barry2952,

Re post #4545 T J Richards Body Works....









This is another trademark from T J Richards. It may be found on the lower left side body work ahead of the front door o some vehicles.

The letters "TJR" may be found stamped into some less obvious panels.

T J Richards (and other Australian body works) were also involved with assembling CKD units that were imported into Australia in complete-knock-down form and assembled in their factories. These vehicles may not have any of the body works identification.

I know you have found TROVE, but, I don't know if you have come across the following:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46998923?searchTerm=beacon%20continental&searchLimits=

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17010735?searchTerm=beacon continental&searchLimits=

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11693623?searchTerm=beacon continental&searchLimits=

 

Do you have a larger picture of that badge?

 

I'm still in the Dial Up Age, so videos are hard to impossible to load. Upgrading in the next few months, but for now videos are like wolf bane to my computer! LOL

 

This really got my attention when I spied it. Is anybody familiar with
the first Nash & Rambler V-8s? Does this resemble the AMCs at all?


<!-- End Description -->

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AMC V8 Engines

American Motors' first family of homegrown V8s is not well known to most enthusiasts, and there is a great deal of confusion about their origins, especially the 327 version. Those who are lucky enough to have made their acquaintance know them to have more than enough power for daily driver duty, with a sweet power curve, a willingness to cruise all day at 70-80 mph, and surprising fuel economy - or maybe not so surprising considering the manufacturer.

See Image 1 in Attachments.

The story starts in the early 1950s, not with Nash-Kelvinator or Hudson, but up the road from Detroit at Kaiser-Frazer in Willow Run, Michigan. It would be something of an understatement to say that Kaiser-Frazer was run differently from other car companies. They had plenty of talent, at least at the beginning, with former Chrysler and Willys-Overland executive Joseph W. Frazer and the cadre of talented engineers and designers he recruited. (At the time of K-F's creation in late 1945, Frazer was CEO of Graham-Paige, which had not built cars since the 1941 Graham, but which had managed to stay in business with defense contracts and the manufacture of Rototillers, a now generic term which was originally the brand name of a Graham-Paige invention.) These were countered by Henry J. Kaiser and his long-time associates, who had been enormously successful in construction, mining and shipbuilding, and felt certain their energy and enthusiasm would create similar success in the business.

Kaiser and his people were defined by a kind of "can-do" optimism which was a part of every project they tackled. (And Henry J. Kaiser's own similar personal philosophy could be neatly summarized by his famous saying "Find A Need And Fill It!", which took on a punnish tongue-in-cheek meaning when it appeared on Kaiser cement trucks in the 1960s.)

While this may have worked well when taking on and filling government construction contracts in nominally unrelated industries, it translated into a scattergun approach with, which are ultimately one of the higher priced discretionary consumer purchases once one cuts through all the ad hype. While Kaiser was incredibly successful where "prettification" of the product was concerned - their Art and Colour department, under Carleton Spencer, did more to get upholstery out of the mohair era than any one other manufacturer - they were less successful in mechanical upgrades.

Other than small improvements of the type that most people never see or notice, the final 1955 Kaiser Manhattans only differed mechanically from the 226 flathead 6 in the initial 1946 models in two major ways: optional GM Hydra-Matic, offered from 1951 on, and the McCulloch supercharger (later known as a Paxton supercharger) seen on 1954 and 1955 Manhattans. The supercharger was seen as a desperate attempt to stay in the horsepower race without a V8 engine.

While Kaiser never succeeded in getting a more modern engine into passenger car production, it wasn't for lack of experimentation. A 1951 Kaiser Jade Dragon which started life as Henry J. Kaiser's personal car still exists with the experimental 248 ci overhead cam six that was built and tested in this car. How much relationship if any exists between this engine and the 230 ci OHC 6 used in Jeep Wagoneers in the 1960s is not known.

At another point, Kaiser tried to buy the Oldsmobile "Rocket" 303 for use in Manhattans. Legend has it that Olds was ready to sell engines to K-F, but changed its mind when it saw how fast the lighter Kaiser was with the hot Olds engine!



Kaiser also played with an experimental V8 of its own design, a 288 ci unit primarily created by K-F powertrain engineer David Potter. At some point K-F decided it did not have the money to build this engine. At somewhere close to the same point in time (not sure of the exact chronology), David Potter left K-F for a job at AMC, or perhaps one of its parent companies. When interviewed about the K-F V8 in the 1970s, Potter was vague about whether he brought the design with him or just did something similar from scratch, but surviving pictures of the K-F 288 show an engine that appears identical to the first-generation AMC V8. (And this engine did eventually make its way into Kaiser-built vehicles. We'll get back to that shortly.)

The early 1950s were difficult years for America's independent auto manufacturers. While the biggest problem was most likely Henry II glutting the market with new cars in a vain effort to catch and pass Chevrolet, one of the lesser problems was the market's embrace of the V8 engine, which required tooling changes beyond the capacity of most smaller automakers. Studebaker was the only independent to come out with a V8 prior to 1955, and even this great little engine was designed before anyone realized what a big deal the horsepower race was going to be, with only limited room for expansion.

Nash-Kelvinator CEO George Mason saw this need looming on the horizon and started talking with the other independent automakers about pooling resources. N-K started by acquiring Hudson, which created American Motors. Packard, which had a V8 of its own well on the way to production, countered by buying Studebaker, only to find out after the purchase that Studebaker had a break-even point of 271,000 cars per year, a number that had not been reached since 1950.

Historians on both sides say that Mason's next plan was to incorporate Studebaker-Packard into AMC, which would have given the combined company four makes of big car plus the successful Rambler and Metropolitan, plus two distinct families of V8 engine to choose from depending on size and power requirements. This plan fell apart after George Mason's unexpected death in late 1954.

AMC and S-P went ahead with their first tentative plans toward merger, which would have been agreed upon while Mason was still alive, and which involved offering the smaller Clipper version of the new Packard V8 in 1955 Nash Ambassadors and the new Nash-bodied Hudson Hornets. Packard also provided its Twin Ultramatic automatic transmission for use with its V8.

When Mason's successor, George Romney, took over at AMC, he looked at the merger proposal and decided against going further, proposing instead "love without marriage." Instead, the relationship between the two companies turned ugly, with S-P contending that AMC never offered them anything they could not get from another vendor for less money and AMC responding that the Packard engine contract had them paying too much for V8s and Ultramatics, which in turn forced them to price cars with this combination at a higher price than buyers were willing to pay.

The discovery that one of AMC's new hires had just designed an excellent V8 engine for Kaiser-Frazer could not have been more timely. It is said that George Romney, a devout Mormon, considered this a gift from God. The speed of the new AMC V8's development suggests that the Kaiser work was accepted as what would normally have been AMC's preproduction process. It also suggests that AMC jumped on David Potter's V8 quite literally as soon as they became aware of its existence.

The first edition of this engine, at 250 cubic inches (4.1 liters), appeared halfway through the 1956 model year in Nash Ambassador Special and Hudson Hornet Special models. The Specials were not only a lower trim level than the Packard-powered Ambassadors and Hornets, which remained in production, but were seven inches shorter! This was because the AMC V8 went into what had been the shorter Nash Statesman/Hudson Wasp platform, which had been powered by Nash and Hudson sixes respectively up to that time. The new V8 also used a GM Hydramatic transmission instead of the troublesome Packard Twin Ultramatic. (AMC had continued to use Hydramatics behind its sixes, as indeed both Nash and Hudson had done before their merger.)

Today, George Romney is best remembered for calling the typical fullsize 1950s American car a "gas-guzzling dinosaur". Most have forgotten that he was saying this even as AMC was sill producing small numbers of fullsize Nashes and Hudsons... in fairness to Romney, he was known to add "... and we make them, too..." during the early AMC years. And even more have forgotten that the 1956 Rambler went through the same longer-lower-wider restyle everyone else was doing in the industry. Actually, that had to have started under George Mason, since the first step toward a larger Rambler was the 1954 introduction of four-door sedans and wagons on a 108" wheelbase, as compared to the 100inch wheelbase the two-door models had used since their introduction in 1950.

The major 1956 restyle, which Romney pushed forward a year from the original 1957 plan, made the Rambler into a much larger and more physically impressive car, losing the two-door models and concentrating 100% on the 108" wheelbase with new models including a four-door hardtop and the industry's first four-door hardtop station wagon. (The 100inch wheelbase models would return as the 1958 Rambler American, but that's a story for another time.)

Noted AMC historian Patrick Foster tells us Romney took Rambler in this direction because he felt the need to compete in the Chevy-Ford-Plymouth price range with models similar to what the competition was selling. This, too, was the rationale for the Rambler V8, which came out in 1957 models and surprised most observers outside

AMC. Although the 250 V8 got a sneak preview in the Ambassador Special and Hudson Special of 1956, it was meant from the beginning as the Rambler V8. It was the smallest passenger car V8 on the market in 1957, but its smaller size was not a handicap at all in the smaller Rambler, especially with its standard dual exhaust. Horsepower output in 2 barrel configuration was a more-than-respectable 190, the same rating as Ford's entry-level 272 and higher than the first two V8s on Chevy's 1957 option list.

As was the practice for the Rambler Six, Rambler V8s were offered in midrange "Super" and highline "Custom" trim (the sixes were also offered in an entry-level "Deluxe" trim level not open to V8s). The four-door hardtop was only offered in Super trim as a 6, and only in Custom trim as a V8, and the four-door hardtop wagon was only offered as a Custom V8.
The 1957 Nash Ambassador and Hudson Hornet lost their Packard engine and transmission, but gained a larger version of the new AMC V8. This had an inch larger bore than the 250 for a displacement of 327 cubic inches... five years before the Chevy V8 of the same size that many confused folks think powered AMC products.

The cover of the 1957 Hudson brochure announced "Power's Up - Price's Down", and both claims were true. The big 1957 AMCs sold for less since AMC no longer had to pay Packard's price for engines. And the 327 had 255 horsepower, a higher number than the previous year's Packard V8 despite the Packard unit having 25 more cubic inches. (One of the points of contention between the two companies was Packard's insistence that Hudson and Nash engines produce less horsepower than the virtually identical engine used in Clippers. This was accomplished on the cheap by use of thick head gaskets, which in fact were so thick that they lowered the compression ratio on AMC-bound engines, and with that the horsepower rating.) All these games went out the window as AMC retook its own destiny with its own engines. (Early 1957s used GM Hydramatics, while a switch to Borg-Warner automatics seems to have taken place somewhere in the middle of the model year.)

The biggest surprise took place in December of 1956, when AMC introduced the awesome Rambler Rebel, which combined the 327 from the big cars with the smaller body of the Rambler four-door hardtop. Rebel 327s differed from the Ambassador/Hornet 327s by virtue of mechanical valve lifters and a higher compression ratio. (Both engines were rated at 255 hp... it's suspected that the Rebel was slightly underrated, perhaps to make the stillborn fuel-injection option appear to be more of an improvement.)

The Rebel was a real screamer - Motor Trend magazine said the only 1957 model they tested that beat the Rebel's 0-60 mph time was the Corvette with the fuel-injected 283. Even the mighty Chrysler 300C came in a tenth of a second behind the Rebel in 0-60 time. And even more was planned than that!

The 1957 Rebel was supposed to offer an optional Bendix "Electrojector" electronic fuel injection system, which was said to produce 288 horsepower, and which Motor Trend believed would have proven even faster than the fuelie Corvette had it made production. (The Electrojector was not quite ready for prime time, AMC ultimately passing on it due to chronic issues with cold-weather starting. Chrysler offered it as an option on its hotter 1958 models, but the problems were nowhere near resolved and most of the EFI MoPars were recalled and retrofitted with dual quads. Bendix eventually sold its Electrojector patents to Germany's Robert Bosch GmbH, who as the years went by eventually worked out the bugs in numerous European applications, and ultimately broughtop it back to the US for successful use in the '75 Cadillac Seville.)

The 1958-60 Rebel did not reach the same heights as the original, but were still desirable and powerful cars. Basically, the "Rebel" name went on all 108 inch wheelbase Rambler V8 models in those years. Foster describes these as a cross between the previous V8 Ramblers, in that they offered more power than the original Rambler V8, but less than the 1957 Rebel. All 1958s and 1959s had the 250 engine with a 4 barrel carb and dual exhaust, and were rated at 215 hp and 260 lb/ft of torque.

I owned a 1959 Rebel Custom station wagon in the 1970s with this engine and the pushbutton Borg-Warner automatic AMC used from 1958 through 1962, and was absolutely convinced this engine was a 327 until I read up on it. It was that powerful. I owned a 1959 Ford Country Sedan station wagon at about the same time, probably the most popular wagon in America that year, with the optional 352 2 barrel and two-speed Fordomatic. The Ford was no slouch but the (admittedly lighter) Rambler gave absolutely nothing away to it in performance despite having nearly 100 less cubic inches.

In 1960, the 4 barrel 250 was joined briefly by a 2 barrel version rated at 200 hp. The Rebel did not return for 1961, and neither did the 250. The volume Rambler model was renamed the "Classic" for 1961, and was only sold in six-cylinder form. (The Classic got a V8 and the Rebel made its return before the end of our story. We'll get back to that.)
The real 327 was restricted to the "Ambassador by Rambler", a more luxurious longer wheelbase version (117") of the Rambler built to replace the big Nash and Hudson models. The long wheelbase variation continued through 1961, after which it was superceded by the 108inch wheelbase Rambler Ambassador, formalizing the model name most people had used to refer to the bigger car. The 1962 Ambassador continued using the 327 and a higher level of trim, especially in its "Ambassador 400" version, despite losing its exclusive wheelbase.

During this time, and most likely in later years as well, Gray Marine marketed modified 250s and 327s for boat use. I discovered this when a boat-owning friend called saying his boat supposedly had a 327, but it didn't look like any Chevy V8 he had ever seen (sigh). Apparently one of Gray Marine's modifications involved the installation of a reverse-rotation camshaft, since prop rotation needs to go counterclockwise, unlike a driveshaft. So, if you run into one of these, some parts will interchange but others won't - proceed with caution.

In 1962, George Romney ran for governor of Michigan and won. The presidency of AMC was filled by former sales manager Roy Abernethy, who had come to American Motors from Kaiser-Willys, and who had started his sales career at Packard. It would be fair to say that Abernethy did not share Romney's belief in smaller cars. Strangely enough, his desire to focus on larger Ramblers was accompanied by an ad campaign noted for its open hostility toward high performance, solidifying the public's growing mistaken belief that Ramblers were slow cars primarily for older folks. The mixed messages which defined Abernethy's tenure confused buyers, and sales plummeted. Some of his moves played a part in later developments of this family of V8 engine.

1963 was noted for the first all-new Rambler body in years, a clean design by outgoing AMC design chief Ed Anderson. With the new bodies came "Tri-Poised Power', a revised system of engine mounting. This is a big deal today because 1963 and later V8s will not interchange with 1962 and earlier due to different engine mounts.

1963 was also the year the Classic got a V8 again. This was 287 cubic inches, very close to the 288 the engine displaced as a Kaiser prototype. As time went by, the 287 joined the 327 as an Ambassador engine, while the 327 became available in Classics. By 1965, when the Ambassador (once again on a longer wheelbase, and now with a unique front and rear end appearance) became available with the new 232 ci Six, marketing was thoroughly confused and the separate identities that had served AMC so well during the Romney years were thoroughly muddled.

Probably the most notorious example of this was the Marlin, which started out life as a cute American-based showcar called the Tarpon. The Tarpon was a big hit, and Abernethy approved it for production... but insisted on doing it on the Classic platform so three people could fit in the back seat. The proportions did not translate well from the smaller car to the larger one, and the Marlin was an enormous flop at a time when AMC could ill afford one.

The AMC 327 did find an important new market in 1965, appearing for the first time in Kaiser's Jeep Wagoneer sport-utility and Gladiator pickup in a "homecoming" of sorts. The 327 Jeep was a gutsy vehicle and was very well received.

<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>
</td> <td></td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The Rebel name reappeared on a dressy two-door hardtop version of the Classic in 1966, and the "Rambler" name was removed from the Ambassador and Marlin at the same time. By this time, the writing was on the wall for this generation of AMC V8. A new thinwall-casting 290 ci V8 had been developed for the Rambler Rogue, an upscale variation of the Rambler American two-door hardtop and convertible created to compete with the Nova SS, Valiant Signet and Dart GT. Rambler got into V8 compacts much later than the competition, in part because the 287/327 was too big externally to shoehorn in there. By 1967, the 290 and the larger but closely related 343 were the only V8s available in AMC passenger cars, followed in 1968 by the 390, which was also built using the new block as its basis. In later years, the 290 became the 304, the 343 became the 360, and the 390 became the 401. The old 327 soldiered on a couple of years longer in Jeeps before being replaced in 1969 by the Buick 350 - which was itself replaced after AMC's takeover of Jeep by the newer AMC V8s.

 

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1957 Rambler Rebel 327[/FONT]
<table align="center" border="0" width="294"><tbody><tr><td height="4">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" height="1803">

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pictured below is the factory hot rod that was the first application af AMC's new 327 cid V-8 engine in a Rambler body. Introduced in 1956, the 1957 Rambler Rebel was originally supposed to have Bendix's new Electrojector fuel injection as an option. The FI was never used. At Daytona speed week in February 1957 it did 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. The only car faster was a fuel injected Corvette at 7.0 sec.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The brochure stated "The amazing performance and agility of the Rebel is derived from a combination of maximum power with compact size and minimum weight. The Rebel is a most unusual automobile--with the new electronic fuel injection system, it has the most horsepower per pound of any compact six passenger American automobile."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Pictured below are two other 1957 models that came
equipped with the 255 horsepower 327 V8.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nash Ambassador[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Hudson Hollywood Hornet [/FONT] ​

</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

 

1. 1957 Rambler Police Cars

2. Chicago Auto Show 1957

3. Advertising

4. Advertising

5. 1957 Rambler Rebel 327

 

SunRoofCord/Jim, that's a TON of key info about this
engine. You've provided all the dots that connect, con-
vincing ME that these photos show an historically impor-
tant V-8 that COULD have saved Kaiser-Frazer and DID
help save AMC!

Furthermore, I've been looking for quite a while for
hard evidence about (1) where this engine design
started and (2) the route it took before finding its
way into AMC autos. Between Walter Miller's photos
below and the excellent and thorough article YOU
found, I definitely believe Potter was the engineer
who designed the V-8 prior to the war for prospective
use in Graham-Paige autos. The nosedives of the
Sharknose and the Hollywood deprived Graham the
capital to build the engine, even experimentally. But
Joe W. Frazer KNEW the design was "on the shelf" of
G-P when he and Henry Kaiser hooked up.

I feel Walt's photos, taken at the Kaiser-Frazer pro-
duction facilities in 1949 are ample proof that Frazer
and Potter made real and tangible progress in devel-
oping and testing the engine, based on Potter's design.

But '49 was "the best of times, the worst of times"
at K-F. Over Frazer's protests that the first-gen K-F
design had run its course and a redesign was needed
to maintain demand and market competitiveness (re-
member Joe F. was "the car guy," not Kaiser), Henry
literally ORDERED that 200,000 Kaisers be built for '49,
based on Darrin's first-generation platform. Kaiser
had really shot the company in the foot without real-
izing his mistake until he was figuratively "in the middle
of the stream." Boatloads of unsold '49 Kaisers were
backlogged, while new models from The Big Three,
plus Nash and Hudson, cruised in the market!

K-F capital was tied up in unsold cars, clobbering the
bottom line and preventing a timely redesign (much
less, moving a V-8 along toward readiness). Kaiser
was forced to gussy up left-over '49s as '50 models
-- fooling no buyers, of course. So K-F, which had
flown so high in the immediate post-war years, soon
found itself stuck with the same old Continental six,
as V-8s became the rage oamong buyers. As well,
loss of at least a year in planning and production meant
that the second-gen K-F cars would not bow until '51.
Henry's error of Paragraph 4, above, surely loomed
large by 1951! Just imagine! The second-gen K-Fs
debuting in 1950, instead of '51 -- AND offering the
V-8 option!!! Yow, what a difference that might have
made!

All that said, I find it very easy to believe a source I
read a year or two ago, stating that the Graham-Paige
V-8 (and quite apparently the resulting K-F) design
eventually was welcomed at the new American Motors
Corporation, which had had enough of buying other
companies' auto-trannys and V-8s at steep prices.
That the "new" V-8 was a lasting boon to AMC is de-
tailed in the article you posted, SunRoofJim. Awesome
info, man!


<!-- End Description -->

<!-- End Description -->

I need to thank Walter Miller of AutoLit.com without whom I never
would have laid eyes on an engine I could not previously be SURE
had ever been actually cast and machined! As far as I knew pre-
viously, there was no hard evidence that the G-P (K-F) design ever
made it off the shelf! FYI, if any HAMB collector finds these two pix
exciting, Walter offers NEW prints of both on eBay, at reasonable
cost. Just search: "1949 Kaiser Frazer Engine Factory Photo."
THANKS again, Walter!

 

<center></center>

 

The A.B.C. Automobile & A.B.C. Motor Vehicle Co

A.B.C.

Autobuggy Manufacturing Co.
St Louis, MO
1906-1908

A.B.C. Motor Vehicle Co.
St. Louis, MO
1908-1910

A. B. Cole of St. Louis, MO produced an American Automobile called the A.B.C. from 1906 to 1910.

Cole's first company was called the Autobuggy Manufacturing Co. and produced the High Wheeler A.B.C. from 1906 to 1908. Early A.B.C. Auto Buggies were made in three body styles. A two passenger Runabout, a three passenger tonneau and a Touring car.



1906 A.B.C. Auto Buggy

The Auto Buggy Manufacturing Co. St Louis, MO

The A.B.C. Autobuggy was equipped with a two cylinder air cooled engines that developed 10/12 horsepower. It used a friction drive transmission by cone and two bevel wheels, one for forward movement and one for reverse. This friction drive set up allowed the Auto Buggy to reach 30 mph top speed in either direction.

<center>

1908 A.B.C. Auto Buggy

A.B.C. Motor Vehicle Co. St. Louis, MO

</center> In 1908 The Auto Buggy Manufacturing Co. changed it's name to The A.B.C. Motor Vehicle Co. This A.B.C. automobile was "A fine Hill Climber with Speeds up to 25 MPH".

<center>

1909 A.B.C. Touring Car

</center> This 1909 A.B.C. Touring Car was equipped with either a water cooled two cylinder engine or a four cylinder 30 horsepower engine. Its high ground clearance made it popular in rural areas. The price was $650.00. The automobiles were "the cheapest high-grade car in America" according to their advertisement.

<center>

1909 A.B.C. Touring Car</center>

 

That is the only size I can post, unfortunately.

<CITE style="FONT-STYLE: normal">There will be a larger version at: hcvc.com.au, but, you may have to join/log in to get access. </CITE>

 

Sorry, Jimi, I didn't realise you were on Dial-up.

The video was original footage and showed Herr Lutzmann cranking up the engine. He then climbs aboard and drives the motorwagen down a cobbled street with lots of kids running alongside.

 

Hi all, just joined and went tru every page on this thread..cool..lots of duplication so when I post I will search first and add only new info to an existing make or start a new one that hasn't been featured before..

I didn't see the CHEETAH by Bill Thomas in this thread so hopefully a new post..

various sources credited..

*******

Bill Thomas Cheetah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Bill Thomas Cheetah was a sports car car built from 1963-1965 by Chevrolet performance tuner Bill Thomas as a competitor to Carroll Shelby's Cobra.
In the late 50's, Thomas had tremendous success racing Corvettes and he gained the attention of influential men within GM. By 1960, Thomas had started his own company and he continued his chain of successes by making other GM products such as the Corvair and Chevy II run circles around the competition. In 1963, Thomas used his connections to gain covert support from GM (through the head of its Performance Product Group, Vince Piggins) to develop a concept vehicle. The prototype was designed jointly by Thomas and his lead fabricator at the time, Don Edmunds. Edmunds is also credited with the bulk of the construction of the car. Financing for the project came from private investors including Thomas himself and John Grow, a Rialto, California Chevrolet dealer. In fact, the first car belonged to John Grow. Using his racing connections, Thomas arranged for material assistance from Chevrolet for the major components - specifically, the Corvette engine, transmission and rear-end assemblies.
Following delivery of the drive-train components, Edmunds laid them out on the shop floor and began taking measurements. With a few deft chalk lines on the floor, the basic outline of the chassis was determined. In fact, the original "blueprints" of the Cheetah consist of only a few simple drawings. This was Edmunds' trademark design methodology - sketch what he thought the car ought to look like, then build it. (The vast majority of the 600+ cars that Edmunds built in his career would be designed this way. Only his last few Indy cars would involve professional designers.) The bulk of the initial drawings show each major component drawn out in block form, with major dimensions marked. Given the basic chassis shape, Edmunds began sketching the body. Edmunds showed his drawings to Thomas and after a few minor changes, was given the green light to begin construction of what was originally meant to be a "Malt Shopper" - a cruising machine or styling exercise. Thomas wanted a prototype vehicle to show GM what level of work his company could do - all in the grand hope of winning additional contract work. Sometime after construction began, Thomas decided the car would also compete on the racetrack to further promote the concept. This midstream change in purpose was partly responsible for the chassis flexibility problems that emerged once the car began to compete on the racetrack.
Once Edmunds had the lower half of a rolling chassis built, he constructed a plywood body buck which fit on top of the chassis. The buck included removable metal frames which showed the outline of the windows. Once completed, the body buck and forms were sent off to California Metal Shapers and Aircraft Windshield Co. respectively. After the rough body arrived back at Thomas' shop, it was finished by Don Borth and Don Edmunds. A second car was also constructed with an aluminum body but the remainder of the cars were fiberglass. These fiberglass bodies were produced by two different companies - Contemporary Fiberglass and Fiberglass Trends. Note: It has been surmised by Thomas employees that the second aluminum car is the car that would eventually be sold to Chevrolet for evaluation purposes. It is also surmised that this is the same car that Thomas purchased back from Chevrolet to serve as a basis for the Super Cheetah, which was never finished.
The chassis was constructed of Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM) cro-moly tubing that was arc-welded. The design of the car was unusual in that it was front engined, but with the engine sitting so far back in the chassis that the output yoke of the transmission connected directly to the input yoke on the differential without an intervening driveshaft. With the engine positioned in this manner, the driver's legs were beside the engine. For this to work, the exhaust system headers passed over the top of the driver's and passenger's legs. The tops of the footboxes were curved to make room for Edmunds' handmade headers. This design takes the attributes of what is known as an FRM layout to an extreme. Consequently, this design gave a front/rear weight distribution roughly approximating a mid-engined vehicle without the cost of an expensive transaxle arrangement. Unfortunately, this design style also meant a very hot driver's compartment - an issue that would haunt the Cheetah on the track.
The racing history of the Cheetah is noteworthy in that despite the fact that the car suffered from the typical problems that plague any new project, the car won a number of races in 1964 in the hands of some capable drivers. Jerry Titus was a vocal advocate of the Cheetah as a contributing journalist for Sports Car Magazine; he would also drive the factory Cheetah race car in its early races. Another notable driver was Ralph Salyer who owned and drove the most successful racing Cheetah, in which he won 11 minor events between 1964 and 1965. His car was known as the Cro-Sal Cheetah, named for its mechanic Gene Crowe and Salyer. It is also became the only Cheetah roadster after Crowe cut the roof off to keep Salyer from suffering heat exhaustion due to the aforementioned heat buildup in the driver's compartment.
Besides cooking the driver, the engine was also prone to overheating, due in no small part to the failure to account for vents to draw hot air out of the engine compartment. Eventually, the overheating problems were solved by using a larger Pontiac NASCAR radiator, by cutting various configurations of holes in the hood and full-length belly pan and lastly by adding spoilers to draw the hot air out from underneath the hood (the first hood spoiler was actually a rope that ran across the hood from fender to fender.) Another major problem was due to the aforementioned mid-stream change in purpose for the vehicle; because the car was originally designed as a proof-of-concept, the chassis lacked the rigidity necessary for racing (little triangulation was incorporated into the design). As a result, the vehicle proved difficult to handle even for experienced drivers such as Jerry Titus. Adding power only aggravated the problem; under hard acceleration, the trailing arms could bow outwards, allowing the rear wheels to toe in. Owners of the car were able to improve handling by adding gussets and triangulation to the chassis, along with plates welded across the parallel bars of the trailing arms to stiffen them sufficiently.
Despite some initial evil handling tendencies on road courses, few cars could catch it in a straight line due to its Thomas-built 377 cu in (6.2 L) displacement, dual air-meter, fuel-injected Chevy small-block V8 based engine. On the dragstrip, the car reportedly posted faster numbers than the much-vaunted 427 Cobra.
A fire in the factory destroyed the original plywood body buck, the factory drag car and some spare parts inventory, thus contributing to the eventual demise of the car. Another factor in the end of production was due to General Motors adherence to the automaker racing ban, thus killing backdoor projects like the Cheetah and the much-required parts supply. When the parts supply dried up, there was no way for Thomas to achieve the homologation numbers needed for racing, which went from 100 to 1000 units. Lastly, race car design was evolving and the true mid-engined configuration represented the wave of the future. To illustrate this point, in approximately the same time frame, Shelby's Daytona coupes were rendered obsolete by the GT-40.
The remaining original cars are left as highly desirable collector items. No official records are known to exist documenting the exact number of cars produced, but best estimates indicate as many as 29 cars were built to varying degrees of completion and configuration.
Bill Thomas died on 10 Oct 2009

*****
from: http://www.cheetahcars.com/index.htm

Production

The Cheetah was conceived and created by Bill Thomas at his company Bill Thomas Race Cars. Due mainly to Thomas' connections at Chevrolet, the most recent Corvette technology was available to the pair for almost every component.

In order to get the engine (and weight) as far back as possible, it was decided to forego the traditional use of a driveshaft. On this car, the universal joint on the frame-mounted differential is coupled directly to the transmission output shaft joint.

Don Edmunds, a Thomas employee, is generally credited with the original chassis work. Once the engine, driveline and suspension were completed, Edmunds simply created a frame to cage them, and a cage is exactly what the tube frame resembles. The body was created in much the same manner. A simple wooden buck was built over the frame and the first aluminum body was hand formed. This first body had a tubular substructure for support. Then they took molds from the aluminum body, one more aluminum body was built before the first fiberglass body hit production. About this time Don Edmunds left to for his own company Autoreasearch, Inc. to build racing cars on his own http://donedmunds.com/fullsize/sportcars/index.htm .

The Cheetah quickly developed a notorious reputation, although some drivers such as Jerry Titus were allegedly impressed with it's performance. The tremendous acceleration of the 377ci motor (in the fully optioned race car known as Stage 3) versus the total weight of 1700 pounds, combined with heavy duty Chevrolet drum brakes - which were more than adequate for a car of twice the weight- kept straightaway power from being an issue for this car. In fact, it was the massive horsepower to weight ratio that, despite Titus' skill with the car, promoted its notorious reputation.

Sadly, the factory never produced the required 100 cars to qualify as a production automobile due to many circumstances - from the fire in the factory, to Chevy's lack of support, and of course the car's reputation....

*********
Race History

Cheetah number one was never raced as it was sold to Chevrolet Engineering. Although it was extensively tested, and did quite well on the skid pad, it was concluded that the lack of torsional rigidity was responsible for the erratic handling. The car was later returned to Bill Thomas Race Cars.

Cheetah Number Two had an extensive race career before ending up on the street. In July 1963, Bill Thomas tested several people to drive the development/factory car, including Bob Bondurant, Billy Cantrell, and Jerry Titus. Jerry Titus was selected. The car was scheduled to make its competition debut in the 1963 Los Angeles Times Grand Prix at Riverside International Raceway. However, in testing at Riverside two weeks before the event, Billy Cantrell crashed heavily into turn nine, effectively preventing the car from running the '63 event.

The debut finally came in January 1964 at a Cal-Club event at Riverside, with Jerry Titus driving. As Titus completed lap one, in 1st place, the lower radiator hose came loose, dumping water under the rear wheels. The car went straight off turn one, climbed the Armco guardrail, and went over the top. Titus survived, but the car was heavily damaged. However, it was repaired at the Thomas facility and continued to compete in West Coast tracks such as, Pomona, Riverside, Cotati, Seattle, Phoenix, and Santa Barbara through out the remainder of 1964 with Jerry Titus as the driver. Near the end of the year, Friendly Chevrolet in Rialto, CA became the owner/sponsor until the car was sold to Jerry Entin in 1965. Entin’s previous race car had been Max Balchowsky’s Ol’ Yaller Mk.II.

Entin’s inaugural event with the Cheetah was a club event. It was the first race to be held at the old Stardust Raceway in Las Vegas. Entin won! He then campaigned the car at Santa Barbara, Riverside and throughout Southern California at Cal-Club events. In preparation for the Times Grand Prix in 1965, Entin heard a clunking noise and took it to Bill Thomas’ shop. Thomas was unable to find anything wrong. Late in the race the right rear suspension pulled out going into turn 6. The car rolled slowly and the body was lightly damaged. Entin had the car repaired. He then rented it out for the Elvis Presley movie Spin Out. Entin later sold the Cheetah to Denny Doherty of the Mama's and Papa's, who promptly converted it into a wild street car.

The third car (the first fiberglass body) was purchased for the 1964 Daytona race by Ralph Salyer. Ralph Salyer and Gene Crowe, his mechanic, campaigned this car which became known as the Cro-Sal Special and was modified to be the one and only roadster.

Bud Clusserath, out of Indiana, purchased the fourth Cheetah to run in the 1964 Daytona 12-hour. Clusserath campaigned this car, but never as successfully as Ralph Salyer.

The fifth car was raced by Alan Green Chevrolet/Bardahl out of Seattle. This car was driven by Jerry Grant at Daytona in February 1964 where, during qualifying, he got off course, hit a drainage ditch and severely damaged the car. Thus, this Cheetah did not compete at Daytona.

The sixth car was purchased by Alan Green Chevrolet to race on the West Coast and the USRRC.

The seventh car was also purchased by Alan Green Chevrolet to be sold as a street car. Alan Green's wife occasionally took it to the drag races.

The eighth car was not originally raced until many years later when Skip Gunnell converted it and ran vintage events.

Jack Goodman, of Dixon Cadillac, purchased the ninth Cheetah with the original intent to drive it on the street, and occasionally run a Cal-Club event in Southern California. Many times it was incorrectly reported that this car had a Cadillac engine. In reality, it was delivered with a stock 1964 Corvette Fuel Injected 375hp engine. When Jack Goodman decided to go racing, the “Thomas Dual Air meter” fuel injection unit was installed along with the 1964 Pontiac NASCAR radiator, angled back 45 degrees, and hood vents. In August 1965, one of the first Chevrolet 396 rat motors and a M22 'Rock Crusher' was installed in this car. It competed at the Los Angeles Times Riverside Gran Prix in this configuration. James Phillips purchased the "Dixon Cadillac" Cheetah and it went to his shop in Las Vegas, NV. The 396 motor was replaced with a L-88 purchased from the Bill Thomas shop in early 1968. David Pinjuv wrenched on the Cheetah for Phillips during 1968. They raced all over the Southern Pacific Region SCCA in the A Sports Racing class. David states that they won at Tucson, did well at Denver, got rained out in Oregon, ran Willow Springs, broke a spindle at Odessa and towed to every race within reach. He especially remembers Tucson since he rode along for the victory lap. “The intake gaskets had failed and there must have been 6 quarts of oil on the floor board, every fastener on the passenger door had been lost and the door came off in my hand when I climbed in”. Tucson was a rough track. The steering rack was shot and the third member had rotated 3 inches to the right. The rebuild after Tucson included the adoption of Corvette disk brakes on the front. Jim won the A/SR championship for the Southern Pacific Region of the SCCA in 1968. After the season the Cheetah was sold so Phillips could purchase a McLaren Mk3. There are conflicting reports where the Cheetah is now.

Cheetah number ten was drag raced extensively by Don Greib, sometimes referred to as the factory drag race car. It was in the Bill Thomas shop the night of the fire and was a total loss.

After Chevrolet Engineering completed evaluating the first factory car, it was refurbished and made its brief road racing history, as the Hurst Performance Special. The factory also drag raced this car and used it for publicity purposes.

************
Chronological Build History

This is the Cheetah build order, as accurately as we have been able to locate

1: Red Aluminum body. Bought by Chevrolet

2: Red Aluminum body. Bought by Friendly Chevrolet, wrecked and rebodied in fiberglass and painted blue

3: Blue Fiberglass body. Sold to Ralph Salyer - Became Cro-Sal Special

4: Red fiberglass. Sold to Bud Clusserath

5: Bardahl - Yellow, Jerry Grant destroyed at Daytona 64

6: Bardahl /Alan Green Chevrolet - Red

7: Alan Green Chevrolet - Green Street Car

8: Tom Fredckin(Mike & Shari Musia) - Blue Street Car , Raider wheels & Allstate tires Street cars to have Hurst shifter & Allstate whitewall tires, batteries & shocks with adaptors for coilovers Raider wheels were sold by Allstate

9: Jack Goodman - Silver Street Car became Clarance Dixon Cadillac race car

10: Don Greib - Red Drag Race Car

11: Super Cheetah (65 Cheetah) never completed, lost in fire

12: Bare frame never completed

13: Bare frame never completed

14: Bare frame never completed

15: Rebodied #1 car white in fiberglass Hurst/Allstate performance car wrecked at Riverside 1964

16: Rebodied #2 car blue fiberglass Jerry Entin??

*********
seems like there is a 'continuation' model now available..

enjoy..

The Cheetah always wins...



Mike

 

1931 Hudson Special With Murphy Body

Believed To Be A Prototype And The Only One Ever Made.

I Can't Find Any Proof Of It Surviving But Sure Is A Neat Car.

 

I can't bleeve it. I made it all the way thru this thread. Wow! What a treasure trove!

I'll add some photos of one of the cars that was on the very first page. I shot 'em at a car show in the Salt Lake City area in 2008.

It was built in the 60s or 70s and hasn't changed a bit since. It may have even been somewhat stylish at the time.

It's still around and pops up now and then. I can't remember the name of the guy who owns it, tho.

 

Thanks for the kind words, TamAngel & ChevyAsylum. We've enjoyed this thread, and the regulars have put lots of hours into searching and presenting their finds, I swear. One of the things I like is that it is (among other things) a resource where anyone can search any make we've covered and read all we've found inside of a few minutes. I THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR CONTINUED EFFORTS AND ENTHUSIASM!!!

 

Merryweather. What a trip, eh? The radiator is a piece of art. AND, check out the wheels. Are they CAST??? Posted by ModelAKieth on RoyalShifter's always-keen thread, "Sitting and Rotting ... picture thread."

 

1908 Oldsmobile Limited Prototype

Chassis No 60014

<table class="details fullwidth"><tbody><tr><td>To be auctioned on

Saturday, March 12, 2011

</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="extrapad">60 bhp, 453 cu. in. T-Head six-cylinder inline engine with three-speed manual gearbox, front suspension via live axle and longitudinal leaf springs, and rear suspension via live rear axle and longitudinal leaf springs, and internal expanding rear-wheel hand brake and external contracting on rear wheels. Wheelbase: 130"

- Only known remaining factory prototype
- Believed to have had just a few owners from new
- Fresh high-point restoration

Overview of the Mighty Limited

Oldsmobile began testing of a true giant in 1908. Soon to be known as the Limited, it was a massive automobile, with 42-inch wheels and a chassis so tall that not one but two running boards were required to mount the beast. Standing beside it, one is unprepared for the realization that the wheels are chest high and that the radiator cap stands taller than many grown men. The engine was a massive T-head engine with a displacement of 453 C.I.D.

Prices ranged from $4,600 to a whopping $5,800. Horsepower was rated at 60, although contemporary reports suggest an actual output closer to 90. Prices, too, were increased across the board, and a new Limited could cost more than $7,000, plus accessories.

The History of the Limited

Although Ransom E. Olds was the father of Oldsmobile and creator of the famed curved-dash model, the early success of the marque was more a credit to Samuel Latta Smith. Smith, a baron of copper mining, railroads and canals in upper Michigan, was an initial investor in the Olds Motor Vehicle Company. In 1899, Smith advanced another $200,000 toward the formation of Olds Motor Works and the construction of a new factory at Detroit.

As majority stockholder, Smith was named president, and his sons, Frederic and Angus, similarly acquired shares. Frederic became secretary-treasurer and soon aggressively plunged into management, including the construction of a large new plant in Lansing following a disastrous 1901 fire at the Detroit factory and establishment of an experimental engineering shop.

Ransom Olds came increasingly into conflict with Fred Smith; he viewed the engineering shop as an encroachment on his turf, and it proved to be the last straw. Olds departed from his namesake company in 1904 to form Reo. Although the curved-dash model continued to sell well, leading the market until eclipsed by Ford in 1906, the Smiths favored larger, more expensive cars. The two-cylinder Heavy Touring of 1905 sold for nearly twice the curved-dash car’s $750. A four-cylinder Model S in 1906 pushed Olds prices over $2,000, and a six-cylinder Model Z for 1908 more than doubled the levy.

The Smith era, however, had not been good for business. Once riding high above 6,000, Olds sales had dropped precipitously in 1906. Two years later they hovered around 1,000, dropping the company from the list of top-ten manufacturers. One suspects that Ransom Olds, enjoying Reo sales of four times that volume, probably had the last laugh. So when William C. Durant came calling in September 1908, the Smiths were eager to talk. A stock swap transferred control to Durant’s new General Motors Company on November 12th, and the Smiths resigned the following year.

Departure of the Smiths, however, did not markedly change the direction of Olds Motor Works. In fact, the most prestigious Oldsmobile was yet to appear: the Limited.

In order to place this magnificent car in proper perspective, it is important to realize that it was under development for more than two full years, with initial experimentation with large six-cylinder engines and imposing chassis beginning in 1908. In fact, documentation from Oldsmobile tells us that a handful of such prototypes were built in 1908; some suggest as few as two. Regardless, there is no disagreement that this is the oldest survivor of the big six-cylinder Oldsmobiles.

As is well known today, after the prototypes were approved, the finished Limited was launched in 1910, and the 1910 catalog broke the news that “such a car cannot be produced rapidly, therefore only a limited quantity can be built.” Based on the Model Z, the Limited rode the same 130-inch wheelbase but with a more impressive stature due to immense 42-inch wheels. Its engine, initially the Z’s 453-cubic inch, 60-hp six, and later the 505-cubic inch motor, was a bored-out version of the original.

The following year, 1911, the engine grew to 707 cubic inches while curiously retaining its original 60-bhp rating. The wheelbase was stretched to 138 inches. A roadster and touring car were offered, as well as a top-of-the-line limousine, at prices from $5,000 to $7,000, territory previously the province of the prestigious “Three Ps” – Packard, Peerless and Pierce-Arrow. Artist William Harnden Foster immortalized the Limited in his painting “Setting the Pace,” in which the Olds leads the New York Central’s Twentieth Century Limited steam locomotive, speeding on a trackside country road.

For 1912, the last year for the mighty Limited, changes were minor but included a small increase in wheelbase to 140 inches. Prices, however, had not been limited, now ranging from $5,000 for open models to $6,600 for the limousine. A new four-passenger “Tourabout” joined the open cars. The Limited returned for just one final season in 1912, probably because Olds management had realized that success lay in less expensive cars. A new, smaller four-cylinder car, the Defender, had replaced the previous Special entry-level model, while the Autocrat, a flagship four-cylinder car introduced in 1911, continued to lead Oldsmobile production. In 1912, sales of the Limited fell to 117, despite a lower price on the limousine.

When originally debuted, the factory catalog boasted, “In the Limited we offer a car which leaves nothing to be desired in design, construction, finish, power or equipment. It stands in the front rank of high grade cars; the greatest of a line universally recognized and ranked among leaders.” There was plenty of truth to their advertising, as the Limited truly did and still does define the magnificence of what Oldsmobile set out to accomplish.

Limited Production

Oldsmobile factory records indicate the production of 325 cars in 1910, 196 cars in 1911 and only 117 in 1912. Only 13 examples survive today: two 1910s, ten 1911s, one 1912 and the example offered here, the sole surviving 1908 Limited prototype. Several of these are in permanent homes, including the GM museum, Harrah’s and the Nethercutt Collection, while another four are project cars, leaving just six restored examples in existence today.

The example offered here is the only surviving 1908 Limited prototype. While the car itself has been known for many years, there was no known documentation of this car to explain its existence. Fortunately, several years ago an error was discovered in the Crestline book The Cars of Oldsmobile by Dennis Casteele. Knowing that the Limited debuted in 1910, he labeled a photograph of a Limited on page 40 as a 1910 model. Upon examination, experts agree the photograph is in fact one of the 1908 prototypes, easily identified by its radiator, fender lines, large wheels and other details.

The earliest history of this car is not known, but it is interesting to note that it wears period New Jersey Manufacturer’s plates. Oldsmobile was incorporated into General Motors which was based in New Jersey beginning in 1908. This fact, along with the casting numbers on all the major components, clearly identifies this car as a 1908 prototype.

For many years, the car was part of the well-known Barney Pollard Collection in Michigan. Pollard was an enthusiast who had collected many cars when he saw the World War II scrap drives as a threat to the remaining survivors. Consequently, he sought out all the cars he could find, particularly the large and important ones, and purchased barns in which to store them. As he ran out of space, he began pounding telephone poles into the ground and standing his cars up on their rear bumpers, leaning against the poles in an effort to save as many as possible. After Pollard’s death, his son took over the collection, and he reports that the big Oldsmobile came from General Motors via a friend of his father’s.

Many years ago, the car was purchased from Barney Pollard, Sr. and found its way into the hands of a friend of the vendor, who then purchased the car, unrestored, several years ago. He owned the car for several years and commissioned a restoration by Alan Schmidt, a San Diego area restorer. After the body and chassis were separated, they were kept in different buildings; unfortunately, the tragic fires in that area a few years ago claimed the body. The body, however, was in any event not the original. For unknown reasons, Pollard had replaced the original body with an unidentified body from another car.

As a result, during the restoration the vendor decided to reconstruct the body. Having nothing to go on, he consulted with the experts and built a body identical to those Oldsmobile was using in the 1908 – 1910 period, choosing common options to his tastes. For example, in 1911, photo documentation exists showing six different light sets, two different windshields and at least two top designs. The vendor’s preference was for the eisenglass windscreen and therefore he opted for the externally braced top to add strength at speed. Finally, two types of rear fenders were available, and the vendor chose the “flying” style rather than the more rounded design.

In all other material respects, the car was restored as original. Mechanically, the engine, transmission, suspension, steering and brakes were all rebuilt including accessories such as the magneto, carburetor, etc.

Summary

Most historians agree that the Limiteds are among the most important of the big brass cars, and they are certainly far rarer today than their contemporary 6/70 Thomas's or Model 66 Pierce's. No other brass era car is as large or impressive as the Limited, and yet they are so well built that surviving examples effortlessly complete 1,000-mile tours, easily reaching speeds of 70 mph or more.

With so few survivors, the Limited is considered by many to be one of the most important artifacts of early American motoring. It is in many ways the spiritual forebear of American motoring – large, fast and equipped to handle long trips. It was true in 1908, and it remains so today.

More Pics Here;

http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=AM11&CarID=r205#
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From Wikipedia;

The Merryweathers worked with the engineer Edward Field to fit his design of a vertical boiler onto a horse-drawn platform. They successfully applied it for use in their steam fire engine, thus improving water pressure and making easier to use once steam had been got up. It was reckoned that an engine could get up enough pressure to pump within ten minutes of a call out; the fire could be started before leaving the fire station so there would be enough pressure by the time they arrived at the scene of the fire.

Appliances were available in small sizes suitable for a country house, pumping about 100 gallons per minute, through to large dockyard models, rated at 2000 gallons per minute. A common size, popular with Borough fire brigades, was the double vertical boiler, that could pump between 250 and 450 gallons per minute. Merryweather also provided hydrants and mains water supplies for highly vulnerable sites such as theatres, where getting a strong enough supply of water could be a problem.

Dock fires were a particular problem, as the hand-operated appliances of the time had neither the reach nor the power to tackle a blaze on a boat or their large warehouses. After successfully demonstrating the improvement of the steam-powered powered devices fighting petroleum fires at Antwerp docks, Merryweather's appliances, with their distinctive crews wearing Merryweather helmets, soon became synonymous with firefighting in Britain and abroad alongside their rivals Shand Mason.

They also built specialist fire boats, such as a steam powered fire-fighting barge for the port of Alexandria designed to pump 1,200 gallons per minute to a height of 200 feet.

The first motorized fire engine in London was a Merryweather appliance delivered to the Finchley Fire Brigade in 1904. It was commemorated in April 1974 by the issue of a 3.5 pence Royal Mail postage stamp. The actual vehicle is preserved in the reserve collection of the Science Museum at RAF Wroughton, Wiltshire.

More;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dR1kGe3-jw

 

Thanks, Jim! As I said, a TRIP, as it was obviously well made for the brass-lamp era. Underscores the achievement when the fire company using this equipment was rather recently commorated on a postage stamp!