History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

I think the picture above might be a Diana but not positive.

Diana - St. Louis, Missouri (1925-1928)

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1925 Diana

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Diana Motors Company of St. Louis, Missouri was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Moon Motor Car Company. The company never dwelled on the fact their car was named after a Roman mythology goddess of the Moon. The radiator shell was a carbon copy of the Belgian Minerva car. In late May of 1925, the new car and company was announced by Steward Macdonald (the president of Moon and Diana). When the Diana car arrived June 25th it was very well received. The company referred to it as the "the easiest steering car in America," "the only car built entirely for balloon tires," and "a car for women drivers." The Moon Company had projected that they would sell 7,000 Diana in the first year of production. The car's engine was a 72hp Continental straight-eight, hydraulic four-wheel brakes, and as well as the Lancaster Vibration Damper, both progressive features of its time. It got about 15 to 18 miles per gallon, with a maximum speed of 70mph. The price was around $2,000.00, but had to pay extra for wire wheels and radiator in bronze, which was the fancy sports roadsters. A town car at $5,000.00 was another limited production model. With some early structural problems in the car itself, and unfortunately the public never did forget - the Diana just faded away. Though the 1928 models were announced, it never produced one and the Diana became a Moon Aerotype 8-80 model for 1928. The Diana still has one the loveliest radiator mascots on an American car.

 

How about a Borgward! Bet you never saw one of these before..This one is an Isabella model..Rare in USA,built in Austria..

 

Would you believe I know a guy that has 3 Borgwards in his collection of over 100 cars. He also has all the Avanti Molds for the Avanti Convertibles and 4 Doors. I'll have to see if I can locate the pictures.

 

No, not from Automobile Quarterly, but from an internet article found searching both Jordan tomboy and Little Custom in the same search.

 

Borgward was a German automobile manufacturer founded by Carl F. W. Borgward (November 10, 1890 - July 28, 1963). The company was based in Bremen. The Borgward group eventually produced cars with the four brands Borgward, Hansa, Goliath and Lloyd.
The first "automobile" Carl Borgward designed was the Blitzkarren (i.e. lightning cart), a sort of tiny three-wheeled van with only two horsepower (1.5 kW), which was, in the gap in the market it filled, an enormous success. Traders with a small budget bought it for delivery. The Reichspost ordered many of them for postal service.
Hansa Lloyd

In 1929 Borgward became the director of Hansa Lloyd AG and led the development of the Hansa Konsul. In February 1937 came the new Hansa Borgward 2000 and in 1939 the name was shortened to Borgward 2000. The 2000 model was followed by the Borgward 2300 that remained in production until 1942. After World War II the company presented the Borgward Hansa 1500. One of the top engineers at Borgward between 1938 and 1952 was Dipl. Ing. Hubert M. Meingast.
Isabella and P100

Production of the Borgward Isabella began in 1954. The Isabella would become Borgward's most popular model and remained in production for the life of the company. In 1959 the Borgward P100 was introduced, with its impressive pneumatic suspension.
Sports racers

Borgward introduced a line of 1500 cc sports racers in the late 1950s, with the 16-valve engine from these becoming a successful Formula Two power unit (which was also used by some F1 privateers in 1961).
Financial problems

Financial problems appeared because Carl Borgward allowed the different makes to act independently, practicing no joint development or sharing of parts. While Borgward pioneered technical novelties in the German market such as air suspension and automatic transmission, the four makes competed against companies like Opel and VW that increased production yearly and lowered prices. Borgward suffered quality problems as well. The Lloyd Arabella was technically advanced as a water-cooled boxer with front wheel drive, but plagued with problems such as water leakage and gearbox glitches. Although Lloyd lost money on the car it was more expensive than the direct competitors.
Liquidation

In 1961 the company was forced into liquidation by creditors though Carl Borgward insisted the company was solvent. Events proved him right and all the creditors were fully paid off. In 1963 all manufacturing equipment for the Borgward Isabella and P100 was sold to Mexico. In July 1963 Carl Borgward died, two years after his company went bankrupt.
The German magazine Der Spiegel reports in 1965 that, with a little help, the Borgward company could have easily overcome its problems in 1961. Apparently the company didn't have to go bankrupt at all.<SUP id=cite_ref-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP>
Production in Mexico

The start of production in Mexico was delayed, but was eventually begun in 1967 by the entrepreneur Gregorio Ramirez Gonzalez. Production in Mexico ceased in 1970 <SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP>
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Borgward Hansa 1500 of 1952

Borgward Hansa 1500 Sportcoupé (1954)


Isabella TS Deluxe

Borgward P100 with air spring

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Actually, a friend of mine has an Isabella rotting into the ground he has owned for 30 years...........not worth fixing.

 

SunRoof, RE #1263, YES, you are right. When I found the pic, it was rather "compressed" horizontally. When I posted it on HERE, the car seemed to get at least six inches longer! Made my post (and my speculation) meaningless. Please ignore, friends!!!

And, THANKS for the info on Biflex Bumpers, the company. Got anything on how they WORKED?

 

The list of NAAM member museums seems quite small and if there were a comprehensive vehicle list it would be only of the NAAM member collections. Think of all the county or local historical societies that might have a small number of vehicles (1 or 2) in their collections. There are probably thousands, not to mention private collections. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________

HJ;

I would have to agree with you here.

Pretty SAD, isn't it?
WHAT a RESOURCE it could be!
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OKAY, guys! I have not lost what's left of my mind. The car pictured below is a ReVere. I post this photo because I have NOT been able to find a pic of one of the mere TWO extant Martin WASPs built in Bennington, Vermont, between 1920 and 1925 by Karl H. Martin, previously with design experience at Roamer. Only 14 WASPs were made (avg. less than 2 a year!).

The WASP resembled the Revere in wheelbase and general appearance, which is why I post the ReVere pic. Take away the side mounts (WASP had dual rear-mount), put a RR-style grill on the ReVere, PLUS a much longer hood, and you've got the look of the Martin WASP. REASONS I CAN'T POST A PIC OF ONE OF THE TWO SURVIVING WASPS IS THAT THEY ARE EITHER HEAVILY COPYRIGHTED, AND/OR MY COMPUTER SIMPLY CAN'T CAPTURE THE PERMITTED IMAGES. As for the permitted photos, Douglas Wilkinson has WONDERFUL shots of the 1921 WASP, which resides in the FAB Tupelo Automobile Museum, Tupelo, Mississippi. THOSE are the ones my computer seems unable to capture (BTW, all Doug wants is credit).

Oddly, BOTH of the surviving WASPs are like this ReVere. I casually called this style a parade car or "opera" car, but I believe it's generally known as a "rickshaw" phaeton, actually. The wheel base seems standard (BIG), but it seems Martin would build the body to whatever style a customer wanted. The one in the Bennington museum is a 1925, and the one in Tupelo is a 1921. (There are SEVERAL great articles on the 'net on Martin and his luxury car.)

The Martin WASP was extremely opulent and sold for $5,000 (what's THAT in 2009 dollars???). Curious little styling touches on the WASP included a propeller on the radiator cap (yeah, you heard me), plus fins resembling shark fins down the middle of the hood (again, not kidding, and the fins didn't look so out-of-place, either) !

ReVere automobile, courtesy Cass Co. Historical Society, Logansport, IN
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1917 Woods.the first hybrid.........This car looks like It was designed by Tim Burton.





http://www.carspace.com/petersenauto/Albums/altpower/woods_1917.jpg/page/photo.html

 

Just thought I'd throw in a commercial here as this is a GREAT book

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">
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Upper Midwest Region,
Classic Car Club of America
P. O. Box 583294
Minneapolis, MN 55458-3294
Phone: 763-542-9365 (Winston)​

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Actually, I was not familiar with them till you brought them up but will do some research.

 

Here's a list of over 125 Antique and Classic Car Museums

http://www.hubcapcafe.com/resources/classic_car_museums.htm

and another Museum List Here;

http://classiccardatabase.com/museums.php

 

The Martin-Wasp Gallery

The Martin Wasp automobile was designed and built by Karl Martin in Bennington between 1920 and 1925. Spectacular in appearance and constructed of the finest materials, the Wasp in the Bennington Museum is one of fewer than twenty ever produced, and is the only one in existence,

It is a 1924 Martin Wasp Touring Car

 

1925 Wasp Custom Motor Car

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Picture From Ebay

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Text From

http://www.coachbuilt.com/des/m/martin/martin.htm

In August, 1919 Martin-Wasp leased a portion of the Pleasant St. plant of the Olin Scott Foundry & Machine Corp. in which to manufacture the Wasp, and set about gathering an inventory of parts sufficient to produce an initial run of a half dozen automobiles. Col. Scott was Benningtons leading industrialist who had invented an improved gun powder mill that made him a small fortune during the Civil War. He later introduced an improved wood pulp mill that by the late 19th century had became the mill of choice for the worlds paper manufacturers.

 

Magic Motoring Moments

The Wasp, Motoring Moment

Read at the April Meeting Of Vermont Auto Enthusiasts by Fred Cook
[August 2003 ]




Do you ever bet? Do you ever win? If you bet that the Martin Wasp was the only automobile ever produced in Vermont you might win or lose.

Yes the Wasp was produced in Bennington, Vermont for a number of years by Karl Martin. But there was also the Lane and Daley Steam vehicles produced in Barre, and this was much earlier (1901 and 1902).

The Wasp Was the Barre vehicle and automobile? Do we count it as one? The pictures I have seen of the vehicle show it transporting people and the info on the back says as fast as 15 miles per hour.

The last time the writer of this bet stood up for only the Wasp. And agreed to lose when presented with the Lane and Daley photo and info.

This lead to a more complete investigation of what might have been made in Vermont anyway. Early Vermont registration data for automobiles shows at least a dozen registrations prior to 1020 with unrecognizable names.

These turn out to be cars built by enthusiasts like us for their own personal use. Further research has turned up some data on a couple of these

There was a guy in Poultney who build a car he registered as a Mahana. It was 1910 and the car was 16 horsepower and 4 wheel drive. He mentions that it worked well in the farm fields as well as going to town.

Then there was the Gore in Brattleboro, steam, in 1837. It ran well for years unlike its successor Al Gore. Or the Hooker in St Johnsbury, the Archer in Rutland and the Spear in Windsor.

Who says that Vermont didnt have enthusiasts early on? They made their own fun. Oh and be careful what you bet on!

You can see a Wasp at the Bennington Museum. More info by phone at: 802-447-1571 or online at: www.benningtonmuseum.com

 

Seems as though the Bennington museum is still unaware there is a second WASP, down in Mississippi.

I really want to read more and see just what drive train was used in these.

RunRoof, THANKS for the research & posts!!!

 

IRONFLY: I have to agree! Very Tim Burton! LOL But not so different
from the "shape" of other early electrics.

You have a VERY good point about the WOODS of Chicago probably
being the FIRST electric/gasoline vehicle! Anyone else who wants to
read a GREAT article on the subject of electric cars can Google the
following:

HISTORY OF BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES FROM 1834 - 2006

 

There you go again, calling me Runroof. LOL I know it's just a slip of the keys but I had to give you a hard time about it.

I came across an Automobile Quarterly that has an article on these. I'll have to see if what volume it is.

 

jimi'shemi291 here's the first car known to have curved glass.... I wish I had an interior shot of this. It looks like an opium den with a tiller in the middle and if memory serves correct you didn't have to do a u turn to go the opposite direction. you just spun the tiller and got on the other side of the big round seat. I give you the 1915 detroit electric model 61.

 

SUN ROOF CORD: Sorry, man! My fat fingers often speed ahead of my gray matter, and my prose winds up sounding like osmething Scooby Doo would write! LOL

 

Maybe it's just me, IronFly, but this is a keen little car! The bodywork looks more like the work of a fine cabinet-maker, rather than of a coach-builder! I could see jumping into one of these, IF you were just tooling around LOCALLY -- even today.

Basically, that is RIGHT where electrics really had a key market niche, from about 1900 through around 1912. They outsold any of the gas cars, mainly because (1) the smooth roads were mostly IN town; secondly, people (2) didn't like getting a broken arm cranking over a gasoline engine. As WWI approached, intercity roads and pikes had improved a lot, inducing people to buys cars with a longer range. Couple that with Charles Kettering inventing the electric starter in 1912, and ELECTRICS BEGAN A LONG SLIDE FROM THEIR TEMPORARY MARKET DOMINANCE.

 

I think we mentioned this car earlier in the thread. A Stanley with a woods body. There is a cool video of the guy tooling around in it.

http://www.tomlaferriere.com/1920_Stanley_Steamer.htm

 

I mention the Plymouth below NOT because it is defunct or rare,
even though rumbleseat roadsters accounted for only one of 70
cars sold by Plymouth in '39. Instead, this model marks BOTH a
FINAL AND a FIRST! This marks the final year any U.S. make
would offer the now-outmoded rumbleseat. Plymouth stood alone
for '39. And, this model marks the U.S. industry's first power-oper-
ated convertible top. In my book, this odd conjunction of the ob-
solete and the hi-tech makes the '39 Plymouth rumbleseat roadster
a UNIQUE car, indeed!





This spectacular hotrod was offered in August '09 in the
GoodGuys Classifieds I'm not advertising; it's just COOL!).
Owned by the head of DC Streetrods, Livermore, CA,
the roadster has racked up a score of top prizes in shows.
Based on a now-scarce body style, eight years'-worth of
modifications during the frame-off, ground-up build do
make it a one-of-a-kind car. The dark-cranberry beauty
has too many appointments to mention. But the 'rod
drivetrain bears mention! 340 MoPar SB built to '70
specs, including 9.5 comp ratio. Bolts to 727 Torque-
flite, thence to Charger rear-axle with 8.75 differential
running 2.76 gears. (The SHORT list!)

 

You learn something new every day. My high school car was a 49 Plymouth Special Deluxe 2 door that my dad and I put a dual intake on and a 12 volt converter for the am/fm 8 track. It had 9k miles on it when he bought it for 600 bucks and 22k miles on it 10 years later when we sold it for 1500. That was after my two brothers and I had finished using it as our high school car. It was good for a kid, a semi-tank that wouldn't go that fast.

 

How about a '39 Plymouth Woodie???? Ever Seen One????

Collector beats termites to long-forgotten woodies

<!--END Page Title --> <!--BEGIN Content Body //--> November 18, 2009

by Angelo Van Bogart

Since he was young, Monroe Township, N.J., resident John Katerba knew a local farmer owned a 1939 Plymouth woodie.



A chance meeting with the previous owner of this 1939 Plymouth
led John Katerba to purchasing it.

The car didn’t strike him in his youth, as he had two sons and his high school car, a 1969 Chevelle, to take care of. But a chance meeting with the Plymouth owner in 2007 got him thinking about the woodie again.

“I always knew that the farmer had it, but I had no interest in it about 15 years ago,” Katerba said. “I ran into Bob, the farmer, while paying my taxes and I asked if he still had the Plymouth and if we could look at it. He said, ‘Sure, I haven’t been down to look at it for a while. That would be fun.’”



When Katerba picked up the Plymouth, he discovered a 1948 Ford
woodie (right) also hiding in the trailer situated in a New Jersey
farm field.

Later, the two men drove out to the middle of the farmer’s 50-acre field to a lone semi trailer that served as the Plymouth’s garage. When the trailer door was opened, Katerba was stunned. Not only was the 1939 Plymouth parked in the trailer, but behind it was an equally dusty 1948 Ford Super Deluxe woodie he had never seen or heard of before.

“It was like opening King Tut’s tomb,” Katerba said of the two treasures. “They were covered with cobwebs and dust.”

Katerba learned the farmer was originally interested in only the Plymouth while negotiating its purchase in the early 1970s, but when the farmer tried to buy only the Plymouth, he was presented with an offer he couldn’t refuse.

“The farmer did not want to buy the Ford, he just wanted to buy the ’39 in the ad,” said Katerba. “The seller said, ‘Give me $500 more for the Ford,’ so the farmer bought both cars [for $2,000] and pushed the Ford in the trailer.” Meanwhile, the Plymouth was given a new coat of paint and driven, at least for a few years.

Unlike the Plymouth, the Ford woodie was left to gather dust in the trailer since the farmer had obtained it in 1972. But like the farmer, Katerba was originally interested in only the Plymouth and made an offer to purchase it. Katerba and the farmer came to an agreement, and Katerba brought home a very well-preserved, largely original 30,000-mile 1939 Plymouth station wagon that he soon learned was rather rare. Currently, only two or three are listed in the Plymouth Club roster.

“I bought the Plymouth, because it was all complete and there was no hunting for parts,” he said.

Immediately, Katerba set out to make the Plymouth roadworthy again.

“We towed that car out of there, and after about five months, I got the whole thing running,” he said. “I had it rewired with a new wiring harness with the cloth covering from Rhode Island Wiring. I bought pre-bent stainless-steel brake lines from Classic Inline Tube and replaced the gas tank.”

After other small projects over a five-month period, Katerba had the Plymouth on the road again, and was able to retain many of the vehicle’s original parts in the process.

“It has the original voltage regulator, starter and radiator,” Katerba said. “I cleaned the contacts, did a valve job, got new hoses, brakes, brake springs, wheel cylinders, flushed the rear, flushed the transmission, and now it’s a great car to drive. It’s not perfect, but I put the kids in there and go to soccer games.”

Unforgettable Ford found
After a couple years behind the wheel of the 1939 Plymouth woodie station wagon, Katerba couldn’t shake the thought of that Ford that had kept the Plymouth company in the trailer. In the meantime, he had shown the Plymouth’s previous owner all the work he had done on the car, so he wasn’t shy about inquiring about a possible sale of the Ford woodie.

“Two years go by and I keep thinking about that Ford, so I went back and asked the owner about it, he said, ‘You already got one of my cars — I want to keep the other.’”

What commenced after that might constitute stalking, Katerba joked, but his persistence paid off.

“I guess I wore him down far enough, and he figured he was not going to restore the Ford, and he was impressed with how I got the Plymouth done when I took it by him,” Katerba said.

On April 5, 2009, Katerba and his family drove back to that lone trailer in the New Jersey field and pulled out its last treasure, a 1948 Ford Super Deluxe woodie station wagon, also in very much original and well-preserved condition.

“The trailer was totally dry, and it was so high off the ground, the car did not rot out underneath,” Katerba said. “There was no lock on the trailer — anybody could have walked up and opened it, but nobody messed with it. This was luck. That’s all it was.”

The old Ford’s front brakes had locked up, but with a flatbed and a winch, the Ford was carefully coaxed out of the trailer it had been stored in for 37 years. Once the Ford was exposed to daylight again, Katerba found it to be in good condition.

“The wagon is all original right down to the original finish on the wood, which is peeling now,” he said. “Even the date of manufacture is still visible on the firewall, dated in a yellow factory stamping from Feb. 25, 1948. Only a light coating of rust is visible on the underside of the floor pan with the paint still visible underneath.”

But after 61 years, the Ford is not without a few faults.

“There are some issues,” Katerba said. “There is some minor damage to the passenger quarter panel and the rear mahogany tailgate panels need replacing, along with the rear window frame. It’s not bad, though, for not seeing sunlight for 37 years.”

Since retrieving the Ford in April, Katerba has quickly grown excited about the advantages driving the 1948 Ford will offer over the 1939 Plymouth woodie.

“The Ford has a V-8 versus a flathead six,” Katerba said. “It’s a longer, bigger car. The rear windows crank down. They are not sliders, like on the ’39 Plymouth.”

Katerba plans to keep the 1948 Ford woodie a nice original, down to the paint, but he acknowledges some exterior work will have to be done to make it roadworthy.

“The ’48 is great and I love original cars. I would rather leave the scratched paint in place. The ’48 is pretty nice — it’s had some things done to it, but nothing major. I was missing a couple pieces of wood, and I am getting help from [famous woodie collector] Nick Alexander. I’ve had several conversations with him and he’s very willing to help, and he’s knowledgeable about these cars. The man is a true hobbyist. He has already helped me locate an NOS upper and lower tailgate and a quarter panel to make the Ford’s body complete. Nick’s shop manager, Jamie Torres, has also helped with technical questions.”

Mechanically, Katerba has freed the brakes and pulled the flathead V-8 for a rebuild. Unfortunately, the original block was cracked and he’s searching for a good 59AB block. Perhaps in 2010, the woodie will be rolling down the road again.

For now, two woodies, one unloved and both forgotten, share a home again. This time, their digs are a little more homey than a nearly forgotten semi trailer in a farm field.

 

AlsAncle: I surely didn't mean to crack on rumbleseats, as I feel THESE are one of the most quaint, era-defining features of pre-war cars. My dad & aunt love to tell about riding in the rumble of a '28 Model-A Ford. Thta they were STILL around by '39 does surprise me. Despite the depression, roads had gotten better, drivers didn't dawdle along so much anymore, and people didn't want to be blown away anymore in the back.

 

SUN-Roof-Cord, yup, Plymouth woodies are highly prized. When I look at this kooky, rather short-lived trend, it is KEEN. But at the same time, you just have to wonder what possed people for a time.

 

How Many '36 Chrysler Convertibles have you ever seen????

 

Here's an unrestored one with Sidemounts

 

This is the closest I've come on how they work;

St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search

The Green Franklin is supposed to have the Biflex Bumpers