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History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,787

    swi66
    Member

    [​IMG]

    1900 Auto show in Madison Square Garden.........
     
  2. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    The reason for this picture is, as osmeone observed elsewhere,
    NOBODY seems to have saved early taxis.

    [​IMG]

    1916 taxis, Chicago -- I found this pic a long time ago and
    cannot remember where. I do not know the make of the cars
    for certain; however, Checker is officially listed as being in
    business from 1922 - 1982, presumably meaning the time when
    they actually built cars. So, maybe these are Yellow taxis???

    The other major early player in building cars SPECIFICALLY
    as taxis ("livery" vehicles) was Yellow, which dated earlier and,
    as I recall was under the primary control of a man named Markin.
    By the late-'40s, Markin managed to cobble a sort of merged
    operation out of Yellow and Checker -- as best I recall --also
    gaining significant control of taxi licensing in many large cities.

    Now, all along, lots of established automakers also sold cars
    for use in the livery trade. I can remember that, in the late
    '30s and even after WWII, some of the companies targeting
    the taxi business were DeSoto, Hupmobile and Packard,
    among others.
     
  3. The Pullman was an American automobile manufactured in York, Pennsylvania by the York Motor Car Co. from 1905 to 1917. Total production is estimated at anywhere from 12,000 to 23,000 cars. The Pullman automobile was named by industrialist A.P. Broomell to reflect the quality and luxury of rail cars and coaches made by the Pullman Company, but the two organizations were not related.

    Pullman automobiles were sold as luxury vehicles, using advertising slogans such as "Not Only The Best at the Price But the Best at Any Price." While not as expensive as the high-end motor coaches the cars were purported to match in quality, they were considerably more expensive than the contemporary Ford Model T. The Model T introduced in 1909 was $1850, but the price dropped to around $500 by 1914. A Pullman advertisement from 1910 lists four touring car and roadster models for $1650 to $3200.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    1910 4-cylinder Touring Car
     
  4. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,573

    alsancle
    Member

    Most of the Ruxton's I've seen had Woodlites. Many of them had crazy colors too.
     
  5. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,787

    swi66
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Another of the auto show at the Garden
     
  6. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,787

    swi66
    Member

    Vintage custom wheels and tires!
    [​IMG]
     
  7. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Early Crager OR Keystone???

    [​IMG]

    In all seriousness, what are those two YOKES we see up front??? And, is this a car built for an oriental petentate, or what?
     
  8. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Alsancle said: Most of the Ruxton's I've seen had Woodlites. Many of them had crazy colors too.

    Jimi: Heard you, AlsAncle. But the caption said 1915 Dodge, so I was just asking.<!-- / message -->
     
  9. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Swi & HJ, these early auto-show pix are pretty amazing, especially in terms of osme of the relatively obscure names requiring (apparently) 2-3 booths!!! (Riker, e.g.)
     
  10. I am thinking its purpose is to add some cushion to the ride.

    Another example of everything "old" is "new" again.

    [​IMG]

    To me it looks like those yokes are fender brackets and the fenders have been lifted to view the wheel/tire combination.
     
  11. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Tucker convertible a no-sale in Scottsdale

    [​IMG]

    The controversial Tucker convertible was a no-sale at Russo and Steele's Scottsdale auction Sunday night.

    Bidding reached $1.4 million on the one-off Tucker, but car owner Justin Cole apparently was unwilling to lift the reserve and the sale stalled. The reserve was rumored to be $1.5 million.

    The auction was scheduled to continue today in Scottsdale.
     
  12. After looking at the yokes closer now I have changed my mind and I am thinking they are "optional" headlight brackets.
     
  13. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    HJ, I guess that sounds logical: headlight brackets, since they seem to match the general STYLE of the other work.
     
  14. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Well, that doesn't make much sense to me. He had to have been standing by, or near, the autioneer, and he would have gotten "the look" when it reached $1.4-M. Given the "controversy," I would think 1.4 would be an admirable and honorable price, rather vindicating Cole's efforts. I'll leave it at that.
     
  15. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,787

    swi66
    Member

    There is always the possibility that the reserve was higher.
    And maybe it was pretty much a publicity stunt going to auction.
    And after the events of this past weekend, it is possible the prime buyers had beat a hasty retreat.
    Could make sense to wait for yet another day.........
     
  16. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Re: Post 1479 O-We-Go Cycle Car originally posted by HJManiac

    Imagine my surprise when the March 2010 Hemmings Classic Car arrived in the mail last Friday and there was a fascinating article on the one existing O-We-Go Cycle car. Quoting the article;

    The O-We-Go's father could justly be identified as Charles B. Hatfield Jr. who first entered the automobile business with his father in Cortland New York around 1906. A year later, the company moved to Miamisburg, Ohio where it built a two cylinder high wheeler with solid tires variously known as the Buggyabout and the Unique. Some components, including the bodies, were supplied by Kauffman Buggy Company, also in Miamisburg. Both firms merged after skidding into receivership, and the car now known as the Clark-Hatfield, was then briefly built in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Interestingly, the future O-We-Go family Hatfield family is no relation to the Hatfields that once operated the Cortland Wagon Company, and later relocated to nearby Sidney, New York, where they built the Hatfield car between 1916 and 1924.

    A lineup of Investors then began building trucks in 1910 under the Hatfield name. The earliest Hatfield trucks were variations on the previous Ohio high-wheelers, still with chain drive. The bankrollers briefly moved the company to Cornwall-On-The-Hudson, New York, before moving upstate again, to Elmira. The truck company bumped to a halt following it's 1913 production run, and for whatever reason - most likely another round of investors, including a one time Standard Oil financier, who scratched up $150,000 in new money - the younger Hatfield decided to get into cyclecars. He figured on doing it a little west of Elmira, in the small industrial city of Owego, New York, along the Susquehanna River in Tioga County.

    Here come some more of those issues. In 1914, Owego was home to the Ives Motorcycle Corporation. whose founder, Willis H. Ives, had been involved in the manufacturer of local cycles. The earliest was the Reliance, beginning in 1903, which then became the Empire Motorcycle Company in nearby Addison from 1903 to 1906. Ives then moved east to Elmira, Heights in 1907 and then to Owego in 1908. Following a 1911 bankruptcy, Ives bought what was left of Ives with new investors and named the company for himself. Ives was already supplying engines to another cyclecar, the Imp which was built in Auburn, Indiana. The Imps enduring claim to fame is it's design by William B. Stout, an itinerant genius who had previously been an engineer at Scripps-Booth going on to create the Ford Tri-Motor and later, the Stout Scarab which some consider the first minivan. Before all that though, the Imp went bust, which meant that Ives suddenly had considerable manufacturing capacity to let. In stepped Hatfield and his new money. For a while the jauntily named O-We-Go (in the indigenous Iroquois ah-wa-gha roughly means "where the valley widens") was rolling.

    Through 1912 Ives branded his motorcycles, and their engines Reliance. He then changed to Monarch, the type of engine now installed in the remaining O-We-Go.

    There is much more to the article but I would like to share the beginning as I find it interesting.

    A lot of issues need to be considered when you discuss a car such as the O-We-Go. The first and most important is the year it was built, 1914. Analogous to Gelatin being poured into a mold, the definition of "Car" had yet to solidify into something immediately recognizable. Most people still considered it a platform on steel wheels pulled on rails behind a steam locomotive. It was still very unclear in 1914 whether personal transportation for the ordinary working stiff, who would of considered himself noveau riche if he pulled in a consistent $40.00 a week, would really exist anytime soon. Private automobiles were for those who actually were rich, in many cases. The real coming market in affordable transport, in the belief of some promoters, would be in motorcycles.

    If you ever only read one issue of Hemmings Classic Car, I would recommend this one as it has so much on what we've discussed in this thread such as several unrestored original cars, restoration of a 1908 Staver, and tracing the fall of Studebaker, 1964-"65
     

    Attached Files:

  17. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,573

    alsancle
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    I'm not a Tucker Expert or even a fan of them, but I have followed this story. Passing on a *legit* 1.4 million dollar offer for this car would be a mistake, in my opinion.
     
  18. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Thanks, AlsAncle. I guess I feel, how MUCH an antique or classic -- even one of a kind Like this -- is "worth"???

    Maybe Cole really can't part with his baby. But, having followed the story on and off too, I came around to feeling it was/is a legitimate "restoration" (or, maybe, "finishing-off" would be more appropriate). Maybe he feels the PR value of the car exceeds the monetary value. I dunno.
     
  19. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    SWI, yes, I thought about the aspects of the matter you juts mentioned. But, there's always the possibility that a guy can overplay his hand.
     
  20. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SunRoofCord: Dude, I love it when someone gets REALLY passionate about a car, or line of cars! That's what this whole thread has been about -- people who REALLY care, trying to have serious (occasionally crazy!) conversations about the rare, semi-rare, defunct and downright EXTINCT makes/marques. Thanks for the pointer on the current Hemmings (below)!!!



    If you ever only read one issue of Hemmings Classic Car, I would recommend this one as it has so much on what we've discussed in this thread such as several unrestored original cars, restoration of a 1908 Staver, and tracing the fall of Studebaker, 1964-"65 <!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
    <FIELDSET class=fieldset><LEGEND>Attached Thumbnails</LEGEND>[​IMG]
    </FIELDSET>
     
  21.  
  22. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    The old "horseless carriages" really did have a certain "charm," didn't they? But not too long after 1900, the SHAPE of cars changed, more and more rapidly. That was for the better, of course, but it surely made the horseless carriage a permanent, period-defining ANTIQUE!
    [​IMG]
     
  23. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Info from various sources on the '56 DeSoto Fireflite "Pacesetter" convertible that paced the '56 Indy 500, May 30, 1956

    Okay, guys, this is one near and dear to my heart, one I've researched for quite some time. In a nutshell, some claim -- out of hand -- that the '56 Indy pace car was a new DeSoto Adventurer convertible, termed a "Pacesetter" convertible. From all my reading, I believe this to be false, due to a logical, but ill-informed, assumption on various people's parts.

    My point? The '56 Indy pace car was a Fireflite convertible, informally called the Pacesetter for publicity purposes. The '56 pace car bore NO fender scripts identifying it (there were actually two) as either an Adventurer or a Pacesetter -- only a Fireflite. Underneath, however, beat the heart of an Adventurer, mechanically speaking!

    Though some mystery and misinformation has circulated, most sources agree, two Fireflite convertibles were decked out in Adventurer cream&white paint schemes and trim to serve as the pace car at the Indy 500, the only time DeSoto ever served in that role. The occasion reportedly also called for installation of the 341-CID/320-horse, dual-4-barrel Adventurer engines, as well. One served mainly as show piece "festival" car for the Indy crowd but was, in fact, the backup, in case of trouble with the first car. By one account, the actual pace car had two holes cut into the trunk lid, so that a camera (presumably 16-mm) in the trunk could film the race line-up and starting action.

    These two cars were technically NOT production Adventurers, and no Adventurer convertibles were marketed -- not for '56, that is. They were specially adapted Fireflite convertibles, at least unofficially dubbed "Pacesetter" convertibles. The event was such a publicity success for DeSoto that, by some accounts, from 200 to 300 Pacesetter pace car replicas were produced, presumably enough to be shown at events and DeSoto-Plymouth dealerships around the country. It should be noted that these were NOT exact replicas, though, since they ran standard Fireflite running gear -- not, as some have speculated or outright stated, the 341 Adventurer package like the two Indy models. The Fireflite 4-barrel package generated 255 hp, while the dual-four Adventurer package was good for 320 hp.

    Underscoring the point: The Adventurer for 1956 had debuted in February as a LIMITED EDITION hi-performance coupe. Reportedly, 996 '56 Adventurers were built, and Motor Trend magazine reported that they were sold out after six weeks -- well before the Indy event and the advent of the Pacesetter convertibles. It seems doubtful that 200-300 Adventurer dual-four engines were available for ready installation into any replica convertibles. (It might be added, DeSoto may have regretted building so few Adventurers for '56. But if they erred in caution, they made up for it in subsequent model years, BOTH making the Adventurer a stand-along series AND building Adventurer convertibles, as well.)

    But that said, I repeat, the Indy pace car was NOT an Adventurer but a Fireflite, decked out in Adventurer colors and appointed with most all the Adventurer trim and niceties. There were NO Adventurer convertibles for '56 -- though the "Pacesetter" package was as close to being an Adventurer convertible as anything on planet Earth! Despite a mild recession in '56, DeSoto sales nearly equaled '55 at about 117,000. Was the Adventurer and its convertible-clone cousin, the Fireflite Pacesetter, a factor in DeSoto success for '56? Well, surely couldn't hurt, as plenty of ink and photo ops revolved around these fancy, if low-production models!

    DeSoto President L. Irving Woolson was so proud of his '56 models, he piloted the Fireflite Pacesetter himself to open the race. One might guess that he was quite flush with the excitement of the day, since he exited the track after the starting flag fell and entered the pit area at over 100 miles an hour! Reportedly this raised some eyebrows, while some observers were said to have been quite alarmed! A hundred is FAST for Pit Lane, folks.

    At race's end, the official DeSoto Fireflite "Pacesetter" was presented to race winner Pat Flaherty. It is currently owned by the W.T. Gerard car collection, and was displayed in 2009 at the Ocean Reef Vintage weekend in Key Largo Florida.

    ALLPAR recently cross-referenced sources, including the Plymouth-DeSoto Story, and stated that the Pacesetter 'verts used heavy-duty suspension like the Adventurers, also asserting that all Pacesetters were Fireflites, and no Adventurer convertibles were built. The replica cars also got the beefed-up Adventurer transmission.

    Only about 35 Pacesetter convertibles are thought to remain today. Of course, such a survival rate makes the Pacesetter even rarer than the Adventurer, whose small production run was still three to four times as many cars as the Pacesetter. Though the Adventurer was actually offered in three separate two-tone color combinations, the most popular one was a white (some might call it cream) body with gold top and full-length body side sweep. The Pacesetter convertible race replicas ONLY came in this color scheme, not the other two schemes offered on the Adventurers.


    1956 DeSoto Fireflite "Pacesetter" convertible. Indy pace car replica
    [​IMG]

    <SMALL>These photos are credited to bsabarnowl and were shot in 2008. They were sourced through the Wikimedia Commons project. These are the property of the rights holder, and there are certain accreditation requirements associated with any republication. And, please supported Wikipedia, the Free Online Encyclopedia, as well as the Wikimedia Commons project! Sincere thanks to both!</SMALL>
    <SMALL></SMALL>
    <SMALL>[​IMG]</SMALL>

    [​IMG]
    Special plastic hood insert with checkered-flag background. Quality repros
    are available today but cost a whopping $300 !

    [​IMG]
    Immaculate '56 DeSoto Pacesetter, owned by Larry Zappone
    of Woodinville, WA, a member of the Walter P. Chrysler Club,
    from whose site this was sourced. Sincere thanks to Mr.
    Zappone and and to the Walter P. Chrysler Club.



    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=204>[​IMG]
    Appreciation is expressed to HubcapCafe.com for this rarely seen rear view of the '56 DeSoto.

    <TABLE width=360 bgColor=#c6e2ff border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD width=200>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DESOTO PACESETTER[/FONT]

    </TD><TD width=150>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SPECIFICATIONS[/FONT]
    </TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]TOP SPEED
    [/FONT]
    </TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]115 mph* (184 km/h)[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]0-60 mph (0-96 KM/H) [/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10.2 sec[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ENGINE TYPE [/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]V8[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DISPLACEMENT[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]341 ci (5,587 cc)[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]TRANSMISSION[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2-speed auto[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MAXIMUM POWER [/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]320 bhp (239 kW) @ 5,200 rpm[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD height=21>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MAXIMUM TORQUE [/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]365 lb ft (495 Nm) @ 2,800 rpm[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD height=21>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WEIGHT[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3,870 lb (1,759 kg)[/FONT]
    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD height=21>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ECONOMY[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14 mpg (4.95 km/l)[/FONT]
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    [ * : It should be noted that
    DeSoto test drivers went
    considerably FASTER on
    Chrysler's proving grounds,
    and the 341 also excelled
    in trials at Daytona Beach.]


    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  24. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Transport: Diesel into Auburn

    Time Magazine Monday July 01 1935

    In 1918 a Columbus, Ind. banker named William G. Irwin had a chauffeur named Clessie Lyle Cummins. When Mr. Irwin went to Canada for the summer, Chauffeur Cummins decided he ought to "do his bit" to help the U. S. win the War. He converted the Irwin garage into a workshop, began turning out wagon hubs for the Government. By the time Mr. Irwin got back to Columbus, Chauffeur Cummins had the garage running as a full-fledged factory with three eight-hour shifts.

    Mr. Irwin, who is now a director of the U. S. Chamber of Commerce, decided that such talents should be given an opportunity to flower. Chauffeur Cummins, mechanically inclined since childhood, had built an automobile at the age of 15. Mr. Irwin set him up in business with $10,000, eventually backed him with half a million. By 1930 Chauffeur Cummins was one of the leading manufacturers of Diesel engines in the U. S.

    At that time the Diesel engine was a cumbersome, slow affair which weighed some 250 lb. per horsepower, had a top-speed of 500 r. p. m. But heavy or light, slow or fast, it was still the most efficient engine in the world. Mr. Cummins set about making the Diesel engine lighter, faster, kept an eye cocked on Europe and its Diesel-powered vehicles.

    In 1931 Mr. Cummins put a Diesel engine into a racing car, saw it finish the 500-mi. Indianapolis Sweepstakes nonstop. Still slow, still heavy, still economical, Cummins Diesels were ideal for hauling heavy commercial loads, were soon powering some 1,200 U. S. trucks.

    After three years of experiment, Mr. Cummins appeared fortnight ago in Manhattan with the first Diesel engine exclusively designed for automobiles. This time he used a new Auburn chassis for his test. His engine has six cylinders, 100 h. p., weighs only 80 lb. more than the 8-cylinder Lycoming gasoline engine it replaced. It can turn 3,000 r. p. m., make 90 m. p. h. with a gear ratio slightly above normal. It weighs only 8 lb. per h. p., would cost some 10% more than a gasoline engine to put into mass production. It has no spark plugs, no ignition system, no carburetor, is free from carbon. There is no fire or explosion hazard. The exhaust gas is nonpoisonous.

    Last week, on the first leg of a transcontinental "economy tour" Mr. Cummins drove from Manhattan to White Sulphur Springs, W. Va. to attend the annual meeting of the Society of Automotive Engineers. Distance: 496 mi. Fuel cost: 74¢, plus 38¢ tax. Mileage: 40.2 mi. per gal.

     
  25. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Diesel raced at famed Indy 500

    By The Gazette (Montreal) June 27, 2007

    Diesel engines are not traditionally known for high performance, although Audi has recently shattered that perception with its Le Mans-winning R10 diesel-powered racer. Instead, the diesel's forte is long life and superior fuel economy. That's changing, however, with the application of turbocharging and direct injection that are resulting in some diesel cars being as fast as gasoline-powered cars of a few years ago.

    In fact, in the era when diesels were still known as smelly, smoky, noisy and slow, it might come as a surprise that diesel-powered cars competed in the famous Indianapolis 500 not once, but four times - and they did quite well.

    The Indy diesel effort was mounted by Clessie L. Cummins. In 1919, he added diesel engines to his Columbus, Ind., machine shop business and launched the Cummins Engine Co. It began building single-cylinder engines, enjoying early success, and soon moved into bigger industrial and marine units.

    In 1935, Cummins convinced Auburn to offer a diesel-powered model. Unfortunately, Auburn went broke before this came to fruition. It would be Mercedes-Benz that introduced the world's first diesel-powered production car, the 1936 260D.

    The entrepreneurial Cummins was also a racing enthusiast (he had crewed for Ray Harroun in 1911 when he won the first Indy 500). Thus, when Cummins wanted to promote the durability of his Model U diesel engine, he turned to Indy. He knew the diesel had speed potential because he had installed one in a Duesenberg chassis, which exceeded 160 kilometres per hour on Daytona Beach in February 1931.

    Indy officials agreed to allow a diesel-powered racer into the 1931 race as an experiment if the car could average at least 113 km/h. The Cummins easily surpassed that, qualifying at more than 148 km/h, albeit the slowest qualifying speed.

    The race car's mission was to demonstrate diesel durability and economy, a role it fulfilled admirably. It ran the entire 500 miles (805 kilometres) non-stop, averaged 139 km/h, finished 13th and got 14.7 litres per 100 km fuel economy.

    Cummins came back to Indy in 1934 with two cars. Since some of his engineers favoured two-stroke engines while others preferred four-strokes, Cummins decided to enter a four-cylinder version of each vehicle. Both cars qualified, the two-stroke at 170 km/h and the four-stroke at 165 km/h. They were the slowest in the field, but at least they were in the race.
    The four-stroke dropped out after 81 laps with transmission failure and the two-stroke went on to finish 12th - last among the cars still running - at 142 km/h. While on the surface the two-stroke principle seemed superior, post-race teardowns showed the two-stroke engine was in very poor condition, while the four-stroke was in excellent condition. From then on, Cummins concentrated solely on four-stroke engines.

    Cummins didn't return to Indy until after the Second World War. To encourage diversity, the American Automobile Association, which controlled Indy racing, allowed diesel engines of up to 6.6 litres, whereas spark-ignition engines were limited to 4.5 litres.

    The 1950 Cummins racer was powered by a six-cylinder truck diesel that had been modified by adding a 24-valve cylinder head and a supercharger.
    Initially, it suffered from lack of power and poor cooling. A larger radiator and better air flow improved cooling and, through much testing, the engineers got it up to 340 horsepower. It barely qualified, coming in 33rd - last on the starting grid.

    Bad luck plagued the effort, and the Cummins diesel had to retire at the 209-km mark when a broken engine vibration damper caused supercharger failure.

    Undaunted, Cummins was back at Indy in 1952 with a dramatic new car. Frank Kurtis, the famed California race-car builder, provided one of his new, ultra-low roadster race cars. The Cummins startled the Indy establishment by qualifying fastest and winning the pole position with an average speed of 222 km/h. During the race, the diesel was in sixth place at the 40-km mark, then improved to fifth by 80 km, a position it held until past the 160-km mark.

    It ran strongly until Kilometre 285, when the engine began to smoke because of an over-rich mixture. Because of its low location, the turbocharger intake had picked up so much debris from the track that it began starving for air, forcing the Cummins to retire.

    The ever-conservative Indy establishment, seeing a threat to the traditional spark-ignition engine, cancelled the diesel's displacement advantage, rendering it uncompetitive. This would be the last diesel at Indy. Recent diesel engine advances make one wonder how a diesel would do at Indy today.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2010
  26. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    The 1931 Cummins Special diesel-powered Indycar was quite interesting, and successful. It was built from a modified production Duesenberg Model J that had previously traveled from Indiana to Daytona Beach, FL and back with the Cummins engine. It had a 2-stroke diesel engine of Cummins own design. The car qualified, and finished 13th, with no pitstops. The interesting bit is that this racing car, on the morning of the race, was driven the 40 miiles from Columbus, Indiana, to the Speedway, then driven in the 500 mile race, and then driven BACK to Columbus, on the same tank of fuel, and the same tires.
     

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  27. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SunRoof, that's fascinating stuff there! That ended in '52, about the same time (maybe '53) when Indy officials changed the rules to keep out the VERY competitive Indy-ready version of their 331-CID FirePower Hemi engine.

    BUT . . . NAME one racing governing body that hasn't done such things lots of times! Right?
     
  28. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Quote: The interesting bit is that this racing car, on the morning of the race, was driven the 40 miiles from Columbus, Indiana, to the Speedway, then driven in the 500 mile race, and then driven BACK to Columbus, on the same tank of fuel, and the same tires.

    Jimi: Now, THERE is some AMAZING shit! And in 1931, too!!! Sort of reminds me of the bone-stock 1950 (I think) flathead Plymouth Cranbrook that Johnny Mantz drove to win the Southern 500 that year. During practice and the whole stay, Mantz and his buddies stayed in a motel AND drove the car out in the evenings on beer runs. Now is that STOCK, or what? <!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
     
  29. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    1936 Mercedes 260D, the first successful diesel passenger car

    1936 Mercedes 260D, the first successful diesel passenger car1936 Mercedes 260D, the first successful diesel passenger carRudolf Diesel filed the patent for his signature engine in 1893. However, its installation in a passenger car didn't occur until 1933, when Citroën installed a diesel engine into a Rosalie bay, although this car was never authorized to run on roads. Not until 1936, when Mercedes showed off the 260D, can we talk about the first successful diesel car on the road. Based on the 200 model, the 260 used a 2.4-liter I-4 engine named OM 138 mated to a Bosch mechanical injection pump. The ensemble allowed the car to produce 45hp of power at 3,200 rpm. Almost 2,000 units were built through 1940. The car initially has a 3-speed gearbox; and was upgraded with electric coil ignitors in 1938.

    One of the diesel powerplant's main benefits – then as now – was reduced fuel consumption. The 260D burned 9 l/100 km (26 mpg U.S.) compared to 13 l/ 100 km (18 mpg U.S.) in the gasoline counterpart. Another bonus: at the time, diesel was half the price of gasoline, so the motorists saved a lot of cash at the pump.
     

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  30. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Cummins Diesel At The Indy 500

    First Indycar

    Cummins' first IndyCar was this Model A Duesenberg fitted with an 85hp, 361ci four-cylinder diesel. Cummins tested it in 1931 at Daytona Beach, Florida, and ran over 100 mph. Later that year, Dave Evans drove the car in the Indy 500. The car qualified dead last at 96.871 mph, but went on to run the 500-mile race without a single pit stop and finish the race in 13th place. After the race, the car was shipped to Europe and driven on a 5,000-mile road trip by Clessie Cummins and William G. Irwin, his business partner, to showcase the Cummins diesel
     

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2010

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